News Gabba Upgrade & Olympics News

[Dom PC]

Fair enough but i don't see that you have a suggestion on how to get a new stadium. Other than just spend more money.

People/small business/large corporations and governments all have budgets.
It is the only way to get to where you want to be in the next year, next 5 years, and long term.
Huge costs blowouts happen in lots of big projects especially the last few years
Thats why budgets are reviewed yearly. Adjustments are made to get to the end goal.

The Victorian government stuffed up big time in their initial budget forecasts for the Commonwealth Games.
Contrary to what you said " Going off the "budget" metric as a rationale actually gets you to the Victorian government point of doing a "commonwealth games". It would have been someone revising the budget forecasts that pulled the pin on the Commonwealth Games. So, it was a revised budget that stopped the bleeding
They had a choice continue down a path that would cost a fortune or cut their losses. They chose to cut their losses.

It is not about being narrow minded it is about politics at this point in time.
You can't forecast COVID, Wars, iron ore and coal prices you just budget for what is a reasonable assessment at the time.

I am not sure how you and some others would like the State and Federal governments to be run without a budget.
Governments could spend money on anything really but would be thrown out of office when they increase taxes etc. or mass sacking in the public sector to cover unchecked spending

They are also reminded of broken promises for years to come.
But you can get out of a broken promise with a bit of spin. As long as the end result makes complete sense, improves the situation and does not cost taxpayers more money.

I'm not saying budgets shouldn't exist or aren't important to be done. I am saying, "it's not in the budget so it shouldn't be done" isn't a great rationale when you paying an arm and a leg to host the Olympics. The best justification for getting the Olympics is infrastructure investments... so pissing $1.6 billion away on a temporary stadium just doesn't pass the pub test IMO.

Ultimately this stadium isn't going to come down to if it was in "the budget" (there would be so many versions of "the budget" for this Olympics infrastructure), it's going to come down to the influential people in the shadows of QLD politics and what's in it for them... hence why (I am pretty sure at least) there is some how ~$1 billion being put aside for Suncorp stadium to be done up for the Olympics

If Cricket Australia and the AFL can't team up to overpower the influence of the rugby powerbrokers in QLD (or just straight up out bid them for influence in some way shape or form) to get a world class oval stadium built at either the Gabba or Vic Park then they are being derelict in their duty to their sports and sadly QLDers will miss out on all sorts of world class events for decades to come. We should be 3rd in line for these "events" in Australia, without this sort of stadium, I'd actually suggest we'd be close to 6th in line after Hobart get their stadium.

 

[Section 5]

See post 4908

Borrow the extra few billion and at 5-7% annual average interest rate over 40-50 years its the perfect infrastructure to spread the cost over multiple generations..

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/gabba-upgrade-olympics-news.1265017/post-84841684

That post was to do with Olympic borrowing.
Although you could apply the same principle if you believe it will work.
Carrying a small debt is fine but you can't keep adding to debt just because you may be able to.

The post was about building affordable housing and free dental.
You can't place everything on debt because the State of Queensland is in a better position than other states.
It was not long-ago Queensland had the worse debt of all the states.
If it was seen to be okay carrying large debt the Queensland Government would not have bothered to reduce it considerably to the level it now is.
The Qld. Government is now repaying a much smaller interest (although still a large amount) than previously.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I will defiantly ask how are you going to pay for it.

Okay, you can be defiant, but raising taxes on coal last year put the state budget in surplus. We're still earning a pretty small share of the profits on resources that should be collectively ours, but it's something.

 

[Section 5]

How about this?

Queensland’s coal royalties to increase $8b this financial year: QRC

The Queensland Resources Council says the massive boost to the state’s budget, driven by a new royalty regime, will endanger future jobs and stifle the next generation of mines.

www.afr.com

And understand that we as a state sit in 6th place on infrastructure spend.

Australian Infrastructure Budget Monitor 2023-24 - Infrastructure Partnerships Australia

Infrastructure Partnerships Australia’s Australian Infrastructure Budget Monitor 2023-24 (Budget Monitor) measures infrastructure funding commitments by jurisdictions for the current Budget year and forward estimates (being FY2023-24 to FY2026-27). This report collates information from the...

infrastructure.org.au

It's a pointless question S5 - the reality is if they wanted to spend the money they would make it available.

The bigger more relevant question is why don't they want to spend it and how has this whole thing turned into such a major clusterfuk??

Agree the Labor government has made a big mess of the Olympics and wasted years in the process.

On Qld coal royalties thank heavens the Labor party brought in that super profit tax. But that income is in the past.
The LNP screamed very loudly about how it would cost jobs and stifle investment etc.

The Federal treasurer has forecast coal prices to drop a fair bit in the next FY so maybe next year no supertax collection at all.
Not sure why you put the infostructure spend article. Only that it states money has been put aside for Olympic (non-venue) projects. Maybe you are saying we are 6th and why not be 1st. But that is just more debt.

Agree if they wanted to spend the money on affordable housing and free dental they would, and they defiantly would announce something as big as that before an election. Maybe it's coming in the remaining weeks but i doubt it.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

The post was about building affordable housing and free dental.

Medicare is a federal program, it has nothing to do with the states. I'd argue housing is a more important priority than many other things the state government spends money on, and cuts can be made elsewhere.

 

[brutus76]

Just build at Vic Park

Don't upgrade the GABBA too much

When Vic Park is finished you demolish the GABBA and make a 20,000 seat Rod Laver Arena for basketball, netball, concerts and to utilise Cross River rail. Sell off any excess land.

 

[Section 5]

Okay, you can be defiant, but raising taxes on coal last year put the state budget in surplus. We're still earning a pretty small share of the profits on resources that should be collectively ours, but it's something.

I don't think i am being defiant. I was just asking how will you pay for affordable housing and free dental.
All governments are trying to fund more affordable housing it's just they can't keep up.
Not enough money set aside as you point out but not enough labor to build them anyhow.

I was all for the super tax on coal. See my previous post.
As a matter of fact, i have believed for a very long-time, consecutive governments do not tax our recourses enough.
Governments and lots of experts will say we need the overseas investments. Creates jobs etc. etc.
Australia needed to go down the Norway direction. If you want our oil and gas, you will be paying a pretty penny for it.
In Australia's case it is gas, and anything that is dug out of the ground.
Just using LNG. Australia is second in world behind the US with Qatar 3rd. But Qatar collects 20 times more tax than Australia
Johnny Bananas if you want affordable housing and free dental and a host of other things go down Norway's path.
I am all for it, even if we are very late to the party. Norway is doing fine except for freezing their arse off.
The thing is Australia won't take the gamble and do it. So, we are stuck with the system we have.

Public Interest Sold Out for Private Profit | Between the Lines

The Wrap with Richard Denniss It’s not true that increasing government spending will make inflation worse. It’s also no accident that those opposed to

australiainstitute.org.au

 

[Section 5]

I'm not saying budgets shouldn't exist or aren't important to be done. I am saying, "it's not in the budget so it shouldn't be done" isn't a great rationale when you paying an arm and a leg to host the Olympics. The best justification for getting the Olympics is infrastructure investments... so pissing $1.6 billion away on a temporary stadium just doesn't pass the pub test IMO.

Ultimately this stadium isn't going to come down to if it was in "the budget" (there would be so many versions of "the budget" for this Olympics infrastructure), it's going to come down to the influential people in the shadows of QLD politics and what's in it for them... hence why (I am pretty sure at least) there is some how ~$1 billion being put aside for Suncorp stadium to be done up for the Olympics

If Cricket Australia and the AFL can't team up to overpower the influence of the rugby powerbrokers in QLD (or just straight up out bid them for influence in some way shape or form) to get a world class oval stadium built at either the Gabba or Vic Park then they are being derelict in their duty to their sports and sadly QLDers will miss out on all sorts of world class events for decades to come. We should be 3rd in line for these "events" in Australia, without this sort of stadium, I'd actually suggest we'd be close to 6th in line after Hobart get their stadium.

I agree with a lot of what people are saying.
But saying it on BF won't help the cause.
Contact your local MP and state your concerns. They are the ones we need to convince.

I think the Brisbane Lions, AFL and Cricket Australia should be very concerned with Crisafulli recent statements and comments.
Al lot of us are reading into those comments as a Gabba refurbishment and trying to somehow get a 100-meter track on limited space available
If that is the case, season ticket members will lose their seats as each stage commences.
Maybe they find seating in the remaining sections, but the seats will be crap and maybe not enough to go around.
That will continue for who knows how many years.
It is possible the BCG goes first.
Most likely the first section refurbished will end up being the new BCG section.
They can then move straight into their new digs without losing anything.

 

[Section 5]

Wasn’t the $7b budget the plan when the Olympics was first won by Brisbane? Which at that time included a new stadium at the Gabba.
With inflationary costs of Building Materials and labour, that $7b is no longer a possibility for the same building projects as first proposed, that would likely now cost $9-10b.

Unfortunately since the Games were first approved, things have dramatically changed.
That is just the reality.

The original plan had a new 50k stadium at Albion Park
The IOC replied, suggesting the Athletics be held at Carrara and the Gabba hold Opening and closing ceremonies.
This is something the government could fall back on.
Hopefully not, but at least the Lions can play most of the season at The Gabba.
The biggest issue now is the Athletes Village on the coast. It can't accommodate the extra numbers on current building plans.
Athletics numbers are included in the Hamilton village plans and i don't see them travelling to the coast.
EDIT: Carrara also needed as the 2nd T20 cricket venue

The $7 billion was the original budget and still is.

Inflation is a bitch.
That is one reason the IOC wants Brisbane to be the new norm.
Keep to a budget.
If you have one fairly big spend so be it but you won't be able to do more and keep to that budget.
We went too big with two big spends on our initial submission after the games were approved.
The IOC replied as such to the Government at the time.
The Albion Park new 50k stadium mentioned above.
They also knocked Brisbane Arena on the head suggesting Gold Coast Aquatic Centre. Was used for Commonwealth Games.

 

[Grasshopper17]

Recently Andrew Liveris President of Brisbane Organising Committee and CEO Cindy Hook earlier in the year suggested people contact their local MP regarding a new stadium. Election looming so thought now is a good time.

I emailed my local Member Tim Mander late Wednesday evening on my thoughts regarding how to get a new stadium.
Tim Mander just happens to be Shadow Minister for Olympic and Paralympic Sport and Regional Engagement.
Received the usual immediate automatic reply.
It was a long read being around 9 plus minutes.
Reading hints on sending correspondence to MPs it mentions keeping it short to 1 page otherwise the office staff may just pass on an abbreviated version.
No way i could keep it to one page so shot it off anyhow.
Just received a reply and it looks like he may have read it all or his staff gave him a reasonable abbreviated version.
No actual thoughts expressed though.
.....................................................

Dear xxxxxxx ,

I refer to your email regarding Olympic Games infrastructure.

Thank you for your full and comprehensive analysis of the city’s future. You have obviously had some experience in this space as you have addressed all the issues well.

As you know, if successful, the LNP will conduct a 100-day review of our Olympic infrastructure requirements. I will make sure that your thoughts form part of the review.

Thank you for taking the time to write.

Kind regards

Tim Mander

Is this Tim Mander the former NRL referee?

 

[M Malice]

The original plan had a new 50k stadium at Albion Park
The IOC replied, suggesting the Athletics be held at Carrara and the Gabba hold Opening and closing ceremonies.
This is something the government could fall back on.
Hopefully not, but at least the Lions can play most of the season at The Gabba.
The biggest issue now is the Athletes Village on the coast. It can't accommodate the extra numbers on current building plans.
Athletics numbers are included in the Hamilton village plans and i don't see them travelling to the coast.

The $7 billion was the original budget and still is.

Inflation is a bitch.
That is one reason the IOC wants Brisbane to be the new norm.
Keep to a budget.
If you have one fairly big spend so be it but you won't be able to do more and keep to that budget.
We went too big with two big spends on our initial submission after the games were approved.
The IOC replied as such to the Government at the time.
The Albion Park new 50k stadium mentioned above.
They also knocked Brisbane Arena on the head suggesting Gold Coast Aquatic Centre. Was used for Commonwealth Games.

Yes Metricon would be a terrible idea as the main athletics Stadium and hence the centrepiece of the games... so it mise well then be called the Nerang Olympics.

 

[Mr Ripper]

Is this Tim Mander the former NRL referee?

Yes

 

[Grasshopper17]

Yes

Thanks. So I imagine lobbying him about a new stadium for cricket and AFL will go down about as well as Mr Quirk's review did with the government

 

[Section 5]

Is this Tim Mander the former NRL referee?

Yes 291 games and 2 GF in 2004 & 2005
MP for Everton since 2012
Marginal seat by 2.2%

 

[Section 5]

Thanks. So I imagine lobbying him about a new stadium for cricket and AFL will go down about as well as Mr Quirk's review did with the government

He is shadow minister for the Olympics
He said he will forward my comments on to the review committee.
"I will make sure that your thoughts form part of the review."

I will forward them myself when the time comes anyhow
Also, no point sending anything to him if he is not in your electorate
Something to Crisafulli would be fine as he is the Opposition leader

As i have mentioned before we can all complain on BF but that won't change anything.

 

[Section 5]

Yes Metricon would be a terrible idea as the main athletics Stadium and hence the centrepiece of the games... so it mise well then be called the Nerang Olympics.

BRAB could be head of security

 

[buttermuffs]

I strongly agree. And not just for stadiums, but solving some of the biggest issues the country faces, too. Build housing so people have affordable homes? "How are we going to pay for it?" Put dental health into Medicare so poor people can go to the dentist once in a while? "How are we going to pay for it?" These people don't seem to care about actually improving anyone's life if it costs money.

Meanwhile cut taxes don’t get questioned the same ever. No one ever wonder how the government can afford to cut the taxes. Don’t get me started on back to back surpluses by a government that said they were going to help the impoverished.

 

[buttermuffs]

I'm not saying budgets shouldn't exist or aren't important to be done. I am saying, "it's not in the budget so it shouldn't be done" isn't a great rationale when you paying an arm and a leg to host the Olympics. The best justification for getting the Olympics is infrastructure investments... so pissing $1.6 billion away on a temporary stadium just doesn't pass the pub test IMO.

Ultimately this stadium isn't going to come down to if it was in "the budget" (there would be so many versions of "the budget" for this Olympics infrastructure), it's going to come down to the influential people in the shadows of QLD politics and what's in it for them... hence why (I am pretty sure at least) there is some how ~$1 billion being put aside for Suncorp stadium to be done up for the Olympics

If Cricket Australia and the AFL can't team up to overpower the influence of the rugby powerbrokers in QLD (or just straight up out bid them for influence in some way shape or form) to get a world class oval stadium built at either the Gabba or Vic Park then they are being derelict in their duty to their sports and sadly QLDers will miss out on all sorts of world class events for decades to come. We should be 3rd in line for these "events" in Australia, without this sort of stadium, I'd actually suggest we'd be close to 6th in line after Hobart get their stadium.

The budget is a shit budget and is budgeted poorly through total or allocation if they seriously didn’t consider a new stadium that is also going to be needed for the city anyway as the Gabba collapses.

You’re right in that budgets are good to try and organise costs for projects so that you aren’t planning exuberantly beyond the means of the project. $7 billion seems like a decent budget and when that budget was set the stadium projected costs were cheaper than they are now. Anastacia certainly intended that budget to include a stadium rebuild, and the costs got blown out from the original estimates.

That’s what happens. I refuse to believe our society will collapse if we go over budget.

 

[buttermuffs]

Okay, you can be defiant, but raising taxes on coal last year put the state budget in surplus. We're still earning a pretty small share of the profits on resources that should be collectively ours, but it's something.

Just wait until those mining companies move out of Australia because of those taxes though! And take the coal deposits with them!

 

[Section 5]

Channel 7 News.
Crisafulli is just as bad as Miles no lateral thinking.
He basically said tonight they will be looking at the Gabba as an option in the review, and kept repeating "no new stadium"
Even when asked about a private joint venture with the government (Lions & Cricket apparently put one forward) he said i have been over our position on a new stadium.

This should have the Lions and Cricket seeing red. Not to mention both camps membership base.
Both sporting bodies should come out publicly stating their objection to any major work on a decaying Gabba.
This will stuff up crowd numbers and members will most likely have issues getting a seat when their section comes down
8 to 10 years of disruption most likely and probably costs the same as a new one at Victoria Park.

 

[Billy ray]

A journo needs to reply what if gabba redevelopment plus cost for relocating cricket and football ends up being estimated to cost more than a new stadium? Will you be happy to sign off on that?

 

[Happy_Neale]

Channel 7 News.
Crisafulli is just as bad as Miles no lateral thinking.
He basically said tonight they will be looking at the Gabba as an option in the review, and kept repeating "no new stadium"
Even when asked about a private joint venture with the government (Lions & Cricket apparently put one forward) he said i have been over our position on a new stadium.

This should have the Lions and Cricket seeing red. Not to mention both camps membership base.
Both sporting bodies should come out publicly stating their objection to any major work on a decaying Gabba.
This will stuff up crowd numbers and members will most likely have issues getting a seat when their section comes down
8 to 10 years of disruption most likely and probably costs the same as a new one at Victoria Park.

Surely if the Gabba rebuild goes ahead we’re back to the 4 years of displacement rather than a staged redevelopment?

 

[Billy ray]

A journo needs to reply what if gabba redevelopment plus cost for relocating cricket and football ends up being estimated to cost more than a new stadium? Will you be happy to sign off on that?

Unless. Unless. Thats the plan. Maybe he is playing 4D chess and knows thats the case.
So that will be his out post election.

 

[Nunez]

Unless. Unless. Thats the plan. Maybe he is playing 4D chess and knows thats the case.
So that will be his out post election.

He's no Logan Morris.

 

[jjami15]

Channel 7 News.
Crisafulli is just as bad as Miles no lateral thinking.
He basically said tonight they will be looking at the Gabba as an option in the review, and kept repeating "no new stadium"
Even when asked about a private joint venture with the government (Lions & Cricket apparently put one forward) he said i have been over our position on a new stadium.

This should have the Lions and Cricket seeing red. Not to mention both camps membership base.
Both sporting bodies should come out publicly stating their objection to any major work on a decaying Gabba.
This will stuff up crowd numbers and members will most likely have issues getting a seat when their section comes down
8 to 10 years of disruption most likely and probably costs the same as a new one at Victoria Park.

Everything they say will be tightly covered. It’s election mode and the LNP do not want to stuff this up. They get elected, 100 day review of everything, new stadium simples, if not they’re all a bunch of d********. This is the world stage you bafoons, what we don’t realise is that Australia is seriously not a player on the world’s stage. You have to live overseas before you realise this. One chance we have and one only.