News Gabba Upgrade & Olympics News

[Grasshopper17]

Do we really need a tier 1 Stadium???
When we have 1 government suggesting a tier 50 Stadium for Athletics at the Olympics?

I would think that there is no reason why you can’t get a 50-55k stadium on the site easily enough.
For the next 30-40 years that’s more than enough here in Brisbane for AFL and Cricket.

There are ways to build over roads without suspension and create a ring of access for walking around the Stadium.
It really isn’t that hard.

I bow to your better judgement about the mechanics of how you fit X number of people into the current Gabba site.

But if we have 2.2 million people living in Brisbane now and we're gonna have 4 million by 2040 (as current estimates suggest), we're gonna need a bigger stadium.

THEN if you also factor in that the Lions have had 7 or 8 sell outs this year from 10 games, despite spending most of the season outside the top 8, in a cost of living crisis, with junior Aussie rules player numbers booming... 55k ain't gonna cut it in my view.

Absolute worst case scenario is that whatever stadium we build can be easily extended to 70k, even if it starts at only 55k. But I'd just bite the bullet and go straight to 70k. It may only be filled rarely to start with, but it will be only a matter of time, and it will be spectacular when it does.

 

[MSB ROYS]

If it goes 70k then big, big soccer and rugby games could also be played there as well.

 

[Dalions]

I bow to your better judgement about the mechanics of how you fit X number of people into the current Gabba site.

But if we have 2.2 million people living in Brisbane now and we're gonna have 4 million by 2040 (as current estimates suggest), we're gonna need a bigger stadium.

THEN if you also factor in that the Lions have had 7 or 8 sell outs this year from 10 games, despite spending most of the season outside the top 8, in a cost of living crisis, with junior Aussie rules player numbers booming... 55k ain't gonna cut it in my view.

Absolute worst case scenario is that whatever stadium we build can be easily extended to 70k, even if it starts at only 55k. But I'd just bite the bullet and go straight to 70k. It may only be filled rarely to start with, but it will be only a matter of time, and it will be spectacular when it does.

I am not saying that I wouldn’t love a 70,000 seat Stadium, that would be fantastic.
But I do honestly think it would be half empty at most games for some period.
So we are talking Sell outs of an average of 31,000 with a capacity of just over 36,000.
And a Footy mad Melbourne with Stadium capacities of 55,000 and 100,000 that are more often than not half empty in a City with a population double Brisbane similar to the growth that you are expecting in Brissy.

I would much prefer to go to games in a 55k Stadium with crowds of 40-45k than a 70k Stadium with crowds of 40-45k.
Admittedly finals footy would go pretty close to selling out a 55k Stadium and the Atmosphere would be amazing but even in Finals footy I don’t think we would sell out a 70k Stadium for many games the next 30-40 years.
I just can’t see it.

 

[Andyz]

I bow to your better judgement about the mechanics of how you fit X number of people into the current Gabba site.

But if we have 2.2 million people living in Brisbane now and we're gonna have 4 million by 2040 (as current estimates suggest), we're gonna need a bigger stadium.

THEN if you also factor in that the Lions have had 7 or 8 sell outs this year from 10 games, despite spending most of the season outside the top 8, in a cost of living crisis, with junior Aussie rules player numbers booming... 55k ain't gonna cut it in my view.

Absolute worst case scenario is that whatever stadium we build can be easily extended to 70k, even if it starts at only 55k. But I'd just bite the bullet and go straight to 70k. It may only be filled rarely to start with, but it will be only a matter of time, and it will be spectacular when it does.

Spot on....do it right and do it properly!

With the population skyrocketing and AFL growing, the ground will need to be double its current size soon enough....if billions is spent on a non expandable 50k stadium that isn't ready until perhaps 2030....it will most likely be selling out just as regularly by then as the current Gabba sells out now. Simple maths if we double the population we need to double the stadium......

But without the stakeholders advocating this project it seems less and less likely....what has cricket Aus or the AFL or Lions said recently? I don't think I've heard anything....makes me upset the Lions aren't pushing for sufficient capacity to have their supporters attend, don't they care we are more & more forced to watch at home on the tv?
Just imaging what finals tickets will be like to get or how expensive they will become.....be better to move them to Melbourne at least have a chance at a ticket under $200 then.

 

[Dalions]

But without the stakeholders advocating this project it seems less and less likely....what has cricket Aus or the AFL or Lions said recently? I don't think I've heard anything....makes me upset the Lions aren't pushing for sufficient capacity to have their supporters attend, don't they care we are more & more forced to watch at home on the tv?

You don’t think Cricket Aust the AFL and the Club would be saying and advocating for these things behind closed doors?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Which is why I maintain that the Gabba is the best place for a new Stadium.
It would affect us greatly for an extensive period but I still think it is the best site.

Maybe. It's certainly well connected but it's a narrow patch of land.

Do we really need a tier 1 Stadium???
When we have 1 government suggesting a tier 50 Stadium for Athletics at the Olympics?

I would think that there is no reason why you can’t get a 50-55k stadium on the site easily enough.

Let's see what professional civil engineers and architects have to say before we proceed with that thinking. Remember that a 37k stadium is already overhanging both Stanley and Vulture Streets.

For the next 30-40 years that’s more than enough here in Brisbane for AFL and Cricket.

There are ways to build over roads without suspension and create a ring of access for walking around the Stadium.
It really isn’t that hard.

Everything can be done if we spend enough money. I just don't think any government wants to be seen spending enormous sums in a time when the cost of living is biting many people, so for the sake of optics they'll try to cap the amount they spend. This is going to be true of Crisafulli as well as Miles, because they're both politicians with ambition who don't want to be tossed out after one term. This is why I urge people to temper their expectations of what Crisafulli will do.

I actually think there's a relatively low-cost way to expand the Gabba site footprint to get more walking space around the stadium: cut one traffic lane from Vulture Street and two from Stanley Street. Fat chance either side of politics will go for it though, they're too scared to annoy motorists who think everybody should drive everywhere for every journey, even if it's to and from the CBD in peak hour traffic.

 

[Dalions]

Let's see what professional civil engineers and architects have to say before we proceed with that thinking. Remember that a 37k stadium is already overhanging both Stanley and Vulture Streets.

Plans and designs have been proposed by many architectural firms, they do not do these things without knowing if it can or can’t be built.

 

[Grasshopper17]

I am not saying that I wouldn’t love a 70,000 seat Stadium, that would be fantastic.
But I do honestly think it would be half empty at most games for some period.
So we are talking Sell outs of an average of 31,000 with a capacity of just over 36,000.
And a Footy mad Melbourne with Stadium capacities of 55,000 and 100,000 that are more often than not half empty in a City with a population double Brisbane similar to the growth that you are expecting in Brissy.

I would much prefer to go to games in a 55k Stadium with crowds of 40-45k than a 70k Stadium with crowds of 40-45k.
Admittedly finals footy would go pretty close to selling out a 55k Stadium and the Atmosphere would be amazing but even in Finals footy I don’t think we would sell out a 70k Stadium for many games the next 30-40 years.
I just can’t see it.

I think using Melbourne is a poor comparison on account of the fact that it is supporting 9 AFL teams. Even accounting for all the major sports teams in Brisbane we still don't have 9 teams. And of all the major sports, many of us support multiple teams here anyway.

I really think a better comparison would be Freo, as the little brother to West Coast, perhaps as the Lions are to the Broncos. Freo's smallest crowd this year is 40k, with 3 non-derby crowds of over 50k.

If you then allow for our larger population size compared to Perth, I really think we could expect regular crowds of 45k minimum as soon as the stadium opens, with upward of 60k for the bigger games.

 

[Section 5]

The Quirk report.

Fixed.
Being a Star Trek fan i must have had James T Kirk on my aging mind.

"Space (Victoria Park) the final frontier"
"It's 5-year mission" (build a stadium)
"To boldly go where no man has gone before" Backflip for both parties stating no new stadiums.

 

[Dalions]

I actually think there's a relatively low-cost way to expand the Gabba site footprint to get more walking space around the stadium: cut one traffic lane from Vulture Street and two from Stanley Street. Fat chance either side of politics will go for it though, they're too scared to annoy motorists who think everybody should drive everywhere for every journey, even if it's to and from the CBD in peak hour traffic.

Any walking space around the Stadium does not need to be at current ground level.
In fact it would be better to be built above the roads.
Which is also why the suspension thought is not really a concern.

 

[Dalions]

I think using Melbourne is a poor comparison on account of the fact that it is supporting 9 AFL teams. Even accounting for all the major sports teams in Brisbane we still don't have 9 teams. And of all the major sports, many of us support multiple teams here anyway.

I really think a better comparison would be Freo, as the little brother to West Coast, perhaps as the Lions are to the Broncos. Freo's smallest crowd this year is 40k, with 3 non-derby crowds of over 50k.

If you then allow for our larger population size compared to Perth, I really think we could expect regular crowds of 45k minimum as soon as the stadium opens, with upward of 60k for the bigger games.

I don’t personally think we have enough passion for the game of AFL yet here in Qld to be getting crowds regularly about 50k.
But in 2050 it may be, with more and more people moving from Southern States the passion will come for the game and for The Lions in turn.

 

[Grasshopper17]

Any walking space around the Stadium does not need to be at current ground level.
In fact it would be better to be built above the roads.
Which is also why the suspension thought is not really a concern.

So you're thinking like the stadium in LA where you walk into the stadium and you're immediately on level 6?

It would certainly be spectacular, but how could that possibly by cheaper than Vic Park?

 

[M Malice]

There are great points for both options ie. Victoria Park and The Gabba.

The cons re the Gabba are the space(which can be mitigated to a certain extent), but the biggest one is Lions/Cricket being without a suitable home for 4 years. Pros.. Vibe precinct, tradition, road/rail/bus transport right at the door, an established long list of close by restaurant and accommodation options.

I can not see any cons for Victoria Park and it has a couple of huge advantages, a lot of space around the facility to disperse the crowd pre and post events, plus no displacement of the Lions/Cricket. Accommodation and dining will pop up around it organically.
____________________________________
The one thing most can agree on is that QSAC is an abomination of an idea as a main stadium with absolutely no long term legacy.

 

[Grasshopper17]

There are great points for both options ie. Victoria Park and The Gabba.

The cons re the Gabba are the space(which can be mitigated to a certain extent), but the biggest one is Lions/Cricket being without a suitable home for 4 years. Pros.. Vibe, tradition, road/rail/bus transport right at the door, an established long list of close by restaurant and accommodation options.

I can not see any cons for Victoria Park and it has a couple of huge advantages, a lot of space around the facility to disperse the crowd pre and post events, plus no displacement of the Lions/Cricket. Accommodation and dining will pop up around it organically.
____________________________________
The one thing most can agree on is that QSAC is an abomination of an idea as a main stadium with absolutely no long term legacy.

Ever considered a career in politics?

 

[M Malice]

Ever considered a career in politics?

I haven't got a good enough memory to be a decent politician... it is a well known fact that you need to have a fantastic memory to be a good lier.

 

[Grasshopper17]

I haven't got a good enough memory to be a decent politician... it is a well known fact that you need to have a fantastic memory to be a good lier.

But I really think you're just coming into your prime years when you look at Trump and Biden

 

[Andyz]

You don’t think Cricket Aust the AFL and the Club would be saying and advocating for these things behind closed doors?

If they are advocating why only behind closed doors? Good way to limit their impact on decision makers and leave supporters feeling forgotten about.

I cannot see them closing lanes on any roads surrounding the Gabba....if anything they already are too small. And realistically it's not a situation of the site requiring 5 metres or so...it needs more like 50 metres! It just makes sense to build at Vic park and sell the Gabba site to fund it, will most likely make a huge profit the Gabba site would be worth billions. They can give 1/4 to the school, 1/4 for parkland and sell the rest.

Then build a 60k stadium similar to Adelaide which has easily expandable sections which can bring it up to 80k without disruption when the future requires it. Still heaps and heaps of parkland left and cost neutral everyone wins.

Quirk report really was eyeopening I think and thankfully he has far far better insight into the future of our city than any other decision maker here! If Cricket Aus / AFL / Lions and Olympic chief all start supporting it perhaps it becomes an election issue who knows.
Everyone seems to say the election is only about cost of living....but that doesn't mean we should not have good infrastructure for our community / kids / future generations. What's better is that we have more economic activity and more employment opportunity....more events and more tourists....all these things benefit the city and everyone in it as well as provide us what most other cities in this city have - a decent stadium to watch sporting events at - as well as be proud of in 2032 when we're watching the Olympics which most certainly would not be the case with Qsac!

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Plans and designs have been proposed by many architectural firms, they do not do these things without knowing if it can or can’t be built.

Any architect can draw up a design. I've talked to multiple engineers before who have said they've had to set architects straight on what can and can't be built once accounting for standards and the available budget.

Any walking space around the Stadium does not need to be at current ground level.
In fact it would be better to be built above the roads.
Which is also why the suspension thought is not really a concern.

Wait, aren't you the one who was raising money as an issue earlier today? Platforms cost a lot of money. As does trying to build complex structures on constrained sites. That's always going to be a problem with rebuilding on the site of the Gabba.

 

[Dalions]

So you're thinking like the stadium in LA where you walk into the stadium and you're immediately on level 6?

It would certainly be spectacular, but how could that possibly by cheaper than Vic Park?

I was thinking more like level 2, but yeah

I am only thinking of similar to what was originally released as proposed way back when, definitely doable by building over the roads not suspending with steel like current Gabba.
Which I was assuming was costed when the budget blew out to 3.5b.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

If they are advocating why only behind closed doors? Good way to limit their impact on decision makers and leave supporters feeling forgotten about.

I cannot see them closing lanes on any roads surrounding the Gabba....if anything they already are too small.

Stanley Street has five lanes in the stretch adjacent to the Gabba. If that's too small, I'd hate to see what you consider too many.

 

[Dalions]

Wait, aren't you the one who was raising money as an issue earlier today? Platforms cost a lot of money. As does trying to build complex structures on constrained sites. That's always going to be a problem with rebuilding on the site of the Gabba.

Any funds to move or buy Commercial land to cater for the School would be another thing entirely and not from an Olympic Budget so especially when comparing to the cost of moving it 1km down the road, so yes I am thinking of the money.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Any funds to move or buy Commercial land to cater for the School would be another thing entirely and not from an Olympic Budget

It's all revenue and spending in the end.

so especially when comparing to the cost of moving it 1km down the road, so yes I am thinking of the money.

2km down the road, but who's counting? It's only going to mean a heap more trips added to peak hour traffic. On top of which the government wants to add in 24 000 more residents into this area. Moving the only school a car trip away when that many people are moving in is asinine urban planning.

 

[Dalions]

It's all revenue and spending in the end.


2km down the road, but who's counting? It's only going to mean a heap more trips added to peak hour traffic. On top of which the government wants to add in 24 000 more residents into this area. Moving the only school a car trip away when that many people are moving in is asinine urban planning.

Better than sticking with a School that can’t expand on its current footprint.

 

[Andyz]

Stanley Street has five lanes in the stretch adjacent to the Gabba. If that's too small, I'd hate to see what you consider too many.

Isn't only 4 lanes wide alongside the stadium? As in 4 inbound lanes? It's gridlocked frequently as is, can't imagine they would ever reduce it given it's a hugely important & highly used entryway to the hospitals and the city. And again what are we gaining by losing a lane? Really isn't going to make much difference for the Gabba site....still too small to be a feasible location.

 

[Nunez]

Fixed.
Being a Star Trek fan i must have had James T Kirk on my aging mind.

"Space (Victoria Park) the final frontier"
"It's 5-year mission" (build a stadium)
"To boldly go where no man has gone before" Backflip for both parties stating no new stadiums.

I'd rather a Quark report