From my watching of it, neither leader wanted to publicly backflip on their Olympics promise before the election. Even though we know Crisafulli most likely will backflip.
-
-
AFLW 2024 - Round 6 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
News Gabba Upgrade & Olympics News
- Thread starter PattyKwasagun
- Start date
- Tagged users None
Crisafulli was explicitly asked by Miles if he would build a new stadium. Sad no. Very clearly said no.
I hope he does backflip and Victoria Park would be a shoe in for any review. I have not seen any ToR.
Clearly neither party is keen to build a stadium. Silly to assume one party or the other will go against their very public statements on this issue. After the election they may change their policy but on the other hand they may not. To me the issue is not a factor in deciding who I'll be voting for, as there is no separation between the parties.
Before the last federal election, a lot of people who were not enthusiastic about Albanese's lack of policies were told by his supporters, "don't worry, that's just what he has to do to get elected, he'll do more when he's actually in government". But then he got elected, and didn't do a lot, just like he said he wouldn't. I too am hoping Crisafulli goes back on his word on no new stadium, but recent history tells me not to be expecting it.
Side note, and this isn't directed to you or anyone in particular, but I always find it odd when the term "backflip" is used to describe reversing a position in politics, because when someone does a physical backflip, they end up facing... the same direction they were before. In Britain they use the term "u-turn" instead, which I think is more apt because someone does end up facing the opposite way when they do a u-turn.
Last edited:
Just my take as an outsider. It would be absolutely insane to build a new stadium and it not be designed and planned to serve as the home ground for the Lions, Heat and International Cricket. Yes it may cost more but what will happen to QSAC after the games? A new home for the Lions and cricket will be used 20 plus times a year.
Crisafulli can simply blame the 100 day review if he backflips on his "promise" to not build a new stadium... if the recommendation is to build a new one.
Would be the most beautiful backflip in political history if it happens.
Would be the most beautiful backflip in political history if it happens.
- Apr 12, 2015
- 3,456
- 5,740
- AFL Club
- Brisbane Lions
I am dead set dumbfounded no one will just make the call. This stadium is not a luxury- it’s needed, if they anything like Victorian politicians they will waste money on unnecessary shit and just ignore what is the obvious smart decision for the future. In the scheme of things not even that much money. Just because these dweebs couldn’t make the ping pong team at high school does not mean they hate on sports. Get it done for gods sake.
With the amount of hate on the olympics being held here, neither are going to say they're building a new stadium before voting.
Losing hope for Vic Park now tbh. Far too emphatic a denial to ‘u-turn’ from post election (thanks Johnny Bananas )
Section 5
Norm Smith Medallist
- Nov 26, 2018
- 6,973
- 10,932
- AFL Club
- Brisbane Lions
What posters on BF don't seem to understand is there is no money in the State Olympic Budget for a new stadium.
This is a fact, and why both leaders have stated "no new stadium"
The media can show architect mockups for Victoria Park & Hamilton looking fantastic with price tags north of $3 billion.
Also, The Gabba rebuild, and the Kirk Victoria Park recommendations are all north of $3 billion.
People/media say, why in heavens can't the government see that this (new stadium) is a far better option in the long-term.
It is because if they go down that path, they will be over budget by a staggering $1 billion.
Miles and Crisafulli can do simple arithmetic but lack lateral thinking.
Politically neither are willing to cop the backlash for that type of excess spending
Remember, they have to deal politically with the whole state not just Brisbane people.
Lots of people north of the Sunshine Coast and west of Toowoomba probably don't want the Olympics anyhow.
All these people see is the costs, not the revenue side of things.
Just about everyone realizes spending $1.6 billion on QSAC is wasteful. However, that is all the money the state has left.
You can't build a new stadium for $1.6 billion going on various reported stadium costings.
Hense the QSAC option, as you have to stage athletics somewhere otherwise it is not really the Olympics.
State Olympic Budget $3.54 billion:
Gabba $500 million, Lang Park $500 million, Minor Venues $935 million, QSAC $1.6 billion = State Budget of $3.54 billion
You can't touch the Gabba money as it is needed to stay standing for AFL/Cricket and then T20 cricket at Olympics
You can't touch Minor Venues (MV) money as they are pretty close to being finalized after 3 years.
You can take out the Lang Park $500 million and add that to QSAC $1.6 billion.
That still only gives you a total of $2.1 billion being $1 billion short to build a new stadium.
There is only one way to get a new stadium.
Cancel/delay the Brisbane Arena Entertainment Center (BAEC) and you have your new stadium.
There is no other way.
The election winner needs to choose: A new stadium or a new Entertainment Center simple as that.
....................................................................................................................................
My budget.
Total of $7 billion stays the same.
State Budget + Commonwealth Budget combined = $7 billion.
Maximum Commonwealth contribution as per agreement $2.5 billion (BAEC) + $.935 billion (MV) = $3.435 billion.
Brisbane Arena Entertainment Center (BAEC) planned for build immediately after the Olympics.
Sell Gabba site to fund or part fund BAEC. Housing/unit towers/green space. BAEC also on this site
Or preferable, the BAEC over Wooloongabba station, the open space area. It could start immediately after the Olympics if everything is in place approval wise. Assuming engineers/architects can do it over the CRR tunnel.
This is a fact, and why both leaders have stated "no new stadium"
The media can show architect mockups for Victoria Park & Hamilton looking fantastic with price tags north of $3 billion.
Also, The Gabba rebuild, and the Kirk Victoria Park recommendations are all north of $3 billion.
People/media say, why in heavens can't the government see that this (new stadium) is a far better option in the long-term.
It is because if they go down that path, they will be over budget by a staggering $1 billion.
Miles and Crisafulli can do simple arithmetic but lack lateral thinking.
Politically neither are willing to cop the backlash for that type of excess spending
Remember, they have to deal politically with the whole state not just Brisbane people.
Lots of people north of the Sunshine Coast and west of Toowoomba probably don't want the Olympics anyhow.
All these people see is the costs, not the revenue side of things.
Just about everyone realizes spending $1.6 billion on QSAC is wasteful. However, that is all the money the state has left.
You can't build a new stadium for $1.6 billion going on various reported stadium costings.
Hense the QSAC option, as you have to stage athletics somewhere otherwise it is not really the Olympics.
State Olympic Budget $3.54 billion:
Gabba $500 million, Lang Park $500 million, Minor Venues $935 million, QSAC $1.6 billion = State Budget of $3.54 billion
You can't touch the Gabba money as it is needed to stay standing for AFL/Cricket and then T20 cricket at Olympics
You can't touch Minor Venues (MV) money as they are pretty close to being finalized after 3 years.
You can take out the Lang Park $500 million and add that to QSAC $1.6 billion.
That still only gives you a total of $2.1 billion being $1 billion short to build a new stadium.
There is only one way to get a new stadium.
Cancel/delay the Brisbane Arena Entertainment Center (BAEC) and you have your new stadium.
There is no other way.
The election winner needs to choose: A new stadium or a new Entertainment Center simple as that.
....................................................................................................................................
My budget.
Total of $7 billion stays the same.
State Budget + Commonwealth Budget combined = $7 billion.
Maximum Commonwealth contribution as per agreement $2.5 billion (BAEC) + $.935 billion (MV) = $3.435 billion.
Brisbane Arena Entertainment Center (BAEC) planned for build immediately after the Olympics.
Sell Gabba site to fund or part fund BAEC. Housing/unit towers/green space. BAEC also on this site
Or preferable, the BAEC over Wooloongabba station, the open space area. It could start immediately after the Olympics if everything is in place approval wise. Assuming engineers/architects can do it over the CRR tunnel.
| Venue | Funding |
| New Oval Stadium Victoria Park (AFL/Cricket Legacy) | 3,200,000,000 (spare funding for adjustments) |
| Minor Venues State | 935,000,000 |
| Minor Venues Commonwealth | 935,000,000 |
| Gabba Upgrade | 500,000,000 |
| New Swimming Venue Chandler or beside Boondall EC (Kirk Report p 40) 3 pools enclosed complex Capacity 6k permanent 9k temporary. (swimming Legacy) | 620,000,000 |
| QSAC No Funding Needed | |
| Lang Park no Funding Needed | |
| Spare Funding | 810,000,000 (relocate BMX, Equestrian Cross Country- Kirk report) Only a very small part of this money may be needed |
| Total | 7,000,000,000 |
Section 5
Norm Smith Medallist
- Nov 26, 2018
- 6,973
- 10,932
- AFL Club
- Brisbane Lions
People know when i lie or stretch the truth so no to that.
One of the problems that apparently came to light recently ( i can't find the quote though) was from Crisafulli.
Apparently, he said "no new stadium" will be included in the 100-day review "terms of reference".
I expressed to Tim Mander the shadow MP for Olympics that is a huge mistake (earlier in my email) if he did say that.
Below the last paragraph of my email to him Wednesday.
(c) A new stadium must be included in the terms of reference, along with Brisbane Arena options.
They have 100 days for the review and surely the Premier can ask for two things.
One with a stadium, and one without. Then see what the best option is for a successful Olympic Games
Easy enough to explain a change of mind if a new proposal makes complete sense and the budget is the same.
Sorry, I don't accept the above at all.
Saying there isn't budget for a stadium is so narrow minded and treats voters like idiots. It totally ignores the fact the Gabba will need to have significant money spent on it ($1 or $2 billion?) in the next 15 odd years due to the fact it will need a significant overhaul/facelift. The current government have literally said that's not their problem...
So in fact, the $1.6 billion budget for QSAC being spent on a $2.5b to $3b stadium now actually would save money in the long run. Young and old voters should be outraged that so much public money would be literally wasted for a 2 week event. I fully support the Olympics coming to Brisbane, but ironically this type of wasted funds is actually one reason id turn against Brisbane hosting the Olympics.
Going off the "budget" metric as a rationale actually gets you to the Victorian government point of doing a "commonwealth games" and paying 100s of millions of dollars to not actually host the event. Which is not only a national embarrassment but a prime example of what incompetent government leadership looks like.
Good leaders make hard decisions for the betterment of the greater good... all the government needs to do is have very clear and logical communication and a new stadium wouldn't be the disaster it is turning into.
Saying there isn't budget for a stadium is so narrow minded and treats voters like idiots. It totally ignores the fact the Gabba will need to have significant money spent on it ($1 or $2 billion?) in the next 15 odd years due to the fact it will need a significant overhaul/facelift. The current government have literally said that's not their problem...
So in fact, the $1.6 billion budget for QSAC being spent on a $2.5b to $3b stadium now actually would save money in the long run. Young and old voters should be outraged that so much public money would be literally wasted for a 2 week event. I fully support the Olympics coming to Brisbane, but ironically this type of wasted funds is actually one reason id turn against Brisbane hosting the Olympics.
Going off the "budget" metric as a rationale actually gets you to the Victorian government point of doing a "commonwealth games" and paying 100s of millions of dollars to not actually host the event. Which is not only a national embarrassment but a prime example of what incompetent government leadership looks like.
Good leaders make hard decisions for the betterment of the greater good... all the government needs to do is have very clear and logical communication and a new stadium wouldn't be the disaster it is turning into.
- Jul 22, 2007
- 1,991
- 5,022
- AFL Club
- Brisbane Lions
Yeah, nah I don't buy that budget BS either (not aimed at you S5).
Politicians of every shape and size have always found a way to fund whatever thing it is that floats their boat or reflects well in polling. You can see that all around you and as far back as you like...
There has literally never been a "non necessity" infrastructure build that wasn't mired in this garbage. The Harbour Bridge, the Opera House, Expo 88, Southbank... Hell if I recall, the MCG redevelopments.
And yet every time there is a promotion for Australia it's these same icons we wheel out.
This stadium has got mired in the endless "cost of living" narrative the media has run for 18 months, nothing more nothing less. It chose to muddy the water with big numbers with no substance or proof because it was easy.
It's also been swallowed up in a small target campaign by someone who already seems to be a spinless, vision-less incoming premier.
This stadium and the debate around it is simply a reflection on the power of the media and the superficiality of politics in this country.
It has nothing to do with money... or truth. If the LNP do cede to logic and build one they will simply reinforce the distrust and dislike that we already have of politicians... I struggle to understand their logic in anyway.
Money is the stroke of a pen for a politician. This could be signed off tomorrow.
Credibility on the other hand is a lot harder to get.
Politicians of every shape and size have always found a way to fund whatever thing it is that floats their boat or reflects well in polling. You can see that all around you and as far back as you like...
There has literally never been a "non necessity" infrastructure build that wasn't mired in this garbage. The Harbour Bridge, the Opera House, Expo 88, Southbank... Hell if I recall, the MCG redevelopments.
And yet every time there is a promotion for Australia it's these same icons we wheel out.
This stadium has got mired in the endless "cost of living" narrative the media has run for 18 months, nothing more nothing less. It chose to muddy the water with big numbers with no substance or proof because it was easy.
It's also been swallowed up in a small target campaign by someone who already seems to be a spinless, vision-less incoming premier.
This stadium and the debate around it is simply a reflection on the power of the media and the superficiality of politics in this country.
It has nothing to do with money... or truth. If the LNP do cede to logic and build one they will simply reinforce the distrust and dislike that we already have of politicians... I struggle to understand their logic in anyway.
Money is the stroke of a pen for a politician. This could be signed off tomorrow.
Credibility on the other hand is a lot harder to get.
- Jul 22, 2007
- 1,991
- 5,022
- AFL Club
- Brisbane Lions
Don't also forget the initial Vic park proposal - Brisbane Bold - the first of all of these that was actually costed don't forget - included a swimming venue and entertainment precinct for $3 billion. All of the Govt figures are numbers they literally plucked out of their arse.
Last edited:
- Jun 27, 2017
- 1,668
- 3,739
- AFL Club
- Brisbane Lions
The new Sydney Metro aimed to cost $10 billion but had an 84% cost blowout to be $18.4 billion. It’s an amazing project well worth its cost since it’s now a piece of important and permanent infrastructure for Sydney.
People criticising about ‘how are we going to pay for it’ are genuinely my worst enemy in life. Just spend the bloody money and make the city better and by extension the lives of the people who live there.
I strongly agree. And not just for stadiums, but solving some of the biggest issues the country faces, too. Build housing so people have affordable homes? "How are we going to pay for it?" Put dental health into Medicare so poor people can go to the dentist once in a while? "How are we going to pay for it?" These people don't seem to care about actually improving anyone's life if it costs money.
- Apr 24, 2022
- 3,611
- 9,830
- AFL Club
- Brisbane Lions
we should reallocate money budgeted to schools, orphanages and hospitals to pay for the new stadium
The Flying Belgian
Third Tall
Also, backflips are freaking impressive.
But I find the term a bit troubling. I know people like politicians to be decisive, but if someone can't change their thinking based on evidence (see S. Miles), then that's more troubling to me. Unfortunately, changes on policies are more likely based out of fear of being voted out, than good governence. What a shame that's not often the case.
Section 5
Norm Smith Medallist
- Nov 26, 2018
- 6,973
- 10,932
- AFL Club
- Brisbane Lions
Fair enough but i don't see that you have a suggestion on how to get a new stadium. Other than just spend more money.
People/small business/large corporations and governments all have budgets.
It is the only way to get to where you want to be in the next year, next 5 years, and long term.
Huge costs blowouts happen in lots of big projects especially the last few years
Thats why budgets are reviewed yearly. Adjustments are made to get to the end goal.
The Victorian government stuffed up big time in their initial budget forecasts for the Commonwealth Games.
Contrary to what you said " Going off the "budget" metric as a rationale actually gets you to the Victorian government point of doing a "commonwealth games". It would have been someone revising the budget forecasts that pulled the pin on the Commonwealth Games. So, it was a revised budget that stopped the bleeding
They had a choice continue down a path that would cost a fortune or cut their losses. They chose to cut their losses.
It is not about being narrow minded it is about politics at this point in time.
You can't forecast COVID, Wars, iron ore and coal prices you just budget for what is a reasonable assessment at the time.
I am not sure how you and some others would like the State and Federal governments to be run without a budget.
Governments could spend money on anything really but would be thrown out of office when they increase taxes etc. or mass sacking in the public sector to cover unchecked spending
They are also reminded of broken promises for years to come.
But you can get out of a broken promise with a bit of spin. As long as the end result makes complete sense, improves the situation and does not cost taxpayers more money.
Section 5
Norm Smith Medallist
- Nov 26, 2018
- 6,973
- 10,932
- AFL Club
- Brisbane Lions
I will defiantly ask how are you going to pay for it.
See post 4908
Borrow the extra few billion and at 5-7% annual average interest rate over 40-50 years its the perfect infrastructure to spread the cost over multiple generations..
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/gabba-upgrade-olympics-news.1265017/post-84841684
Dalions
Premium Platinum
- Aug 12, 2016
- 18,124
- 29,290
- AFL Club
- Brisbane Lions
Wasn’t the $7b budget the plan when the Olympics was first won by Brisbane? Which at that time included a new stadium at the Gabba.
With inflationary costs of Building Materials and labour, that $7b is no longer a possibility for the same building projects as first proposed, that would likely now cost $9-10b.
Unfortunately since the Games were first approved, things have dramatically changed.
That is just the reality.
- Jul 22, 2007
- 1,991
- 5,022
- AFL Club
- Brisbane Lions
How about this?
Queensland’s coal royalties to increase $8b this financial year: QRC
The Queensland Resources Council says the massive boost to the state’s budget, driven by a new royalty regime, will endanger future jobs and stifle the next generation of mines.
And understand that we as a state sit in 6th place on infrastructure spend.
Australian Infrastructure Budget Monitor 2023-24 - Infrastructure Partnerships Australia
Infrastructure Partnerships Australia’s Australian Infrastructure Budget Monitor 2023-24 (Budget Monitor) measures infrastructure funding commitments by jurisdictions for the current Budget year and forward estimates (being FY2023-24 to FY2026-27). This report collates information from the...
infrastructure.org.au
It's a pointless question S5 - the reality is if they wanted to spend the money they would make it available.
The bigger more relevant question is why don't they want to spend it and how has this whole thing turned into such a major clusterfuk??
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
- Locked
