Review Game days suck - Carlton prevail

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Cat_Mancini said:
Being there live it just stood out the gap in class and endeavor. We don’t compete hard enough around the contests. They continually walked out of tackles and were able to free themselves. When they forced us down the line we got out marked most of the time. Our defence has been given no time to set up because who ever we play atm gets in first chain the ball out and is able to separate our interceptors leaving lots of one on ones.

I guess pressure causes mistakes but our decision making when coming out of the backline was terrible as we consistently turned it over or kicked to an outnumber. We are not hard to play against and it has been a long time since that has been the case.

Very sad to see Hawk go off like that as he is a legend of our club and we have been so lucky to have him. Hopefully he gets back for a farewell but he was practically incapable of competing tonight.
Cripps torched us but he was afforded so much space and time. Hopefully the MC will see the need to change! Very hard right now to see the wheel turn but it will eventually!
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Definitely Geelong needs a tackling coach or a new one if they already have one. Too many times Carlton players were tackled but still got the ball away, often illegally, but umpires are only human. Dangerfield needs to keep his feet rather than flop and flail on the ground. And when he throws himself at the ball and tries to feed it out as he is falling he often turns it over. Dustin Martin never loses his feet and Gary Ablett Jnr never lost his feet. Patrick Cripps is another who hardly ever hits the ground.
 
cats_09 said:
He went ok against the Bulldogs in the last round of last season
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Yeah fair point, he looked ok then too. Although dead rubber for us, not sure if that means anything.

I hope he does turn into that player because I have a soft spot for him. But given how poor we’ve generally been in the midfield this year, another explanation for him being shuffled around is the MC also aren’t fully convinced he’s the man the job in there.
 

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bruce lindner said:
I'll always back in the GFC MC but would love to know why we repeatedly have Hardie and Humphries as emergencies - are players carrying injuries into games we don't know about?
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I think this was the first time Humphries was an emergency and I think maybe the second time Hardie was
 
Heckler said:
Reality is sinking in : The cliff is here.
Been a while since Cats have lost consecutive games
Sure, there were aberrations like 2021 PF v Demons.
Tonight reminded me of the rebuilding years 2013-19
Teams mixed with aging stars and inexperienced kids.
Generational players retired but the decline was gradual.
Stars that lost desire and kids brushed aside with ease.
Attacking transition chains breaking down due to skills.
Forced to play slow defensive unattractive football.
An average at best list with a lack of genuine depth
Those were tough and frustrating years for Cat fans.
Good enough to make finals, but never a flag threat.
Eventually players improved and superstars arrived.
The team started playing champagne football again.
Understand, this regeneration cycle will repeat again.
Remember fondly our aging stars that brought us joy.
Allow our champions the grace to retire with dignity.
Grant the kids the time to mature and develop fully.
Initially there will be more bad times than good.
Don't dwell on the negatives. Cats future is positive.
New faces will be given a chance. Some are gems.
Keep expectations in perspective. All in good time.

Goodbye Tom Hawkins, Cats longest serving player.
It's sad to see a Cat superstar succumb to injury.
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Good summary. However, Hawkins succumbing to injury is not particularly sad. It's unfortunate. All players get injured at some stage. What is sad is to see him with only 3 disposals all of which were turnovers, only 3 pressure acts and 42m gained in 82 minutes of game time.
 
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Pure_Ownage said:
Nah we need a midfielder like bailey smith 100 %.

Some of the other talent is actually already on the list-apart from the obvious bruhn dempsey and clark, mannagh knevitt and humphries all look very good. And stevens and clohesy show a lot of promise. We simply need to be prepared to drop older guys and play them.
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My worry is that the MC will stick with the older players to keep us in the 8 or if it is clear we’re going to miss then use the last game or two to farewell them. The MC’s modus operandi means Mannagh, Knevitt etc are likely to be (this season at least) depth players only. (I worry that some might seek opportunity elsewhere).
 
A Sad State of Affairs; we were completely incapable of going with one of the competition's better sides tonight despite having more or less our best 23 players available.

Time to explore the depths of the 2024 list a little.

At 8-6 we are theoretically in the hunt for an 11th flag - and yet it seems like it's 20 years since we've been this poor.

It hurts me to admit this to myself, but perhaps Tom Hawkins injury is a blessing in disguise.

A sub-standard Final Season of a career need not diminish a player's legacy much - It happened to no less than Matthew Scarlett.

But Hawkins was completely outpointed by Jacob Weitering for the 2nd time this year; absolutely unable to exert an influence. Shannon Neale has struggled to hold his marks in the games he has played this year but he's managed 9 goals and some ruck minutes from his 5 senior games in 2024 - Tom Hawkins has managed 15 goals from 12 games and was held goalless for the 5th time in 2024 tonight.

It's a sad state of affairs, but it is what it is: Tom Hawkins has gone on one season too long.

Other aspects of our game and our personnel were exposed in disturbing fashion tonight.

Sam De Koning fought back pretty gamely in the 2nd half of this evening's game, but he has not touched his 2022 form this year - nor last - and his older brother bullied him in setting up the win for his club tonight.
I was giddily confident that we had a 10-year player on our list after the 2022 GF win - but a vulnerability to his football has been exposed and it could prove fatal.

Ollie Henry is a luxury player at this stage of his career.
He did maybe 3 nice things tonight.
But I'm not sure his type of role is really called for in modern footy.
As long as he hits the scoreboard, he is in the conversation.
But he offered SFA tonight.
O'Henry had a mere 11 disposal in tonight's loss - and yet that is the most touches he has had all season.
Defensively he is a bit of a non-factor, too.

The one pleasing aspect of his game (to me) was this: twice O'Henry stuffed-up early in the game and twice he made amends in similar fashion later on; early on he failed to body-line a ball and keep it moving forward in our F50; doing so would have earned the team a goal - later on he did just that; copped a hit, moved the ball on with quick hands and we scored.

Similarly, Henry the Junior flew kind of semi-committed at the ball early on in hopes of drawing a free kick and ended up looking a little soft; later on he flew for a mark with more commitment and earned the free kick fair and square. He needs a lot more strings to his bow.

Speaking of bows, Jack Bowes did his midfield claims nothing but disservice tonight; he was reactive and limited in what he could offer.
At 26 I am willing to concede he has a limited future with our club. I don't expect his contract to be extended at this point.

Kudos to the Captain Patrick Dangerfield - who I have traditionally marked very harshly - for his return tonight.
17 disposals is no doubt weighted as a so-so return for Paddy.
But he was very good; the defensive side to his game was as tight as I have seen for him for some time.

We are in a Hole right now and it is going to be an uphill battle to even retain a Finals spot.

But we have talent on the list and in the coaching ranks and I reckon we'll put ourselves in a position to at least contend, i.e. make Finals, yet again in 2024.

Jeremy Cameron's return was a perfect encapsulation of the loss: 3.3 in a big loss, and his scoreboard impact felt largely negligible.
Much like a Weather Reporter tells us that it feels colder than it actually is; It felt like he kicked 1 significant goal all night.

Whatever; Cameron has now officially surpassed Tom Hawkins as our most reliable Key Forward conduit to a goal - with Tyson Stengle on the move Cameron is now IT.

We can work with that imo.

Gotta stay competitive moving foward this year.
 
moond0g said:
I agree 100% with you that Bowes probably needs some role clarity to be able to flourish.

But I’m also a little concerned. His 2 good games in the midfield have been against north and Richmond, the two worst sides. Maybe he just isn’t quite good enough to play as a full time mid against the better quality teams? Aside from those games he’s looked more like a solid enough role player most of the time. Maybe that’s all he’ll be.
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Ideally he's a 4th or 5th midfielder. If we were genuinely contending, he would be.

Unfortunately, he's played as a 1,2, & 3 at various stages this year, and that's not his level. He's a slightly more talented Atkins in that regard IMO.

Not his fault at all, just the reality...and unless Clark, Bruhn, & Holmes all make the leap together in the next year or two like Butters, Rozee, & JHF, or we go on a spending spree of midfielders, that's looking like continuing.

I reckon players like Bowes are often a microcosm of how the team is going.

In a better side with a couple more midfield guns beside him, he'd look like a borderline star.

Think Sam Menegola when playing behind Selwood, Kelly, Dangerfield, Guthrie, Duncan, & Ablett.

When that's not happening, these players sink to the level around them a bit more, and their flaws get accentuated.

They're the ultimate cream types, who while talented, aren't good enough to elevate mediocrity around them.
 
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As an oppo fan, I thought SDK was pretty good.

Yes, beaten, but expected under the circumstances. Given continuity and learning the craft he'd more than likely be a good option for you in that role. Just depends if he's better off for you there or in the backline.

One thing for sure though with these DK boys, is continuity is key and trusting them with the role. Don't think throwing them around multiple positions is the best, it's no secret that Tom's best has been when he's solo without PIttonet.
 
Finknottle said:
Just blame it all on the players.
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Like anything, it's not black & white.

Scott probably does deserve a percentage of the 'blame' per say as nobody is perfect, and nobody's all bad, either.

With that being said, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who'd be laying the majority of the blame at Scotty's feet...and you're likely a moron if you think that way.

I don't look at our list right now and think we should be better placed than we are, or that the coach is holding us back.

I don't think anybody who actually knows our list would feel that we're being held back either.

We're about where we should be for a list in transition.

Some very promising - but inconsistent - kids, some veterans on their last legs, and SFA in the middle.

Probably overachieved to start the season in terms of where we're really at, and probably have underachieved since.

Balances out to a 6-12th finish comes season's end, and that seems about right for mine.
 

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Live in hope said:
My worry is that the MC will stick with the older players to keep us in the 8 or if it is clear we’re going to miss then use the last game or two to farewell them. The MC’s modus operandi means Mannagh, Knevitt etc are likely to be (this season at least) depth players only. (I worry that some might seek opportunity elsewhere).
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I mean mannagh would certainly do that for obvious reasons, you hope knevitt etc dont.

I agree that last year i felt we waited until too late in the year to drop vets and i worry we are repeating the same mistake this year.
 
AlcoaCat said:
Wasn't surprised. Increasingly fragile Danger back after 6 weeks, no ruck, denuded midfield, very out of sorts Stewart and SDK, Hawkins done, Duncan done, Tuohy done, Blitz probably done, Cameron suboptimal for ages, Stengle probably on the way out, our future captain out, and good effort in the Magoos not being rewarded. We aren't very good. And won't be for a while.
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Art Vandelay_ said:
Mitch Duncan is (while cooked in most people's eyes) the 2nd highest ball winner at Geelong in 2024.
A pathetic indictment on the midfield group. You want Mannagh and Knevitt. Fine by me.

Punt Atkins, Blicavs, Bowes, Clark, Bruhn (when fit), Parfitt (when played).
Can I make this crystal clear if your name is in the bolded section I value you as lowest contributors among those getting games, except for MOC and Mullin who are somehow worse.

No name you give me will go out of the side in my eyes before some or most of those bolded. Knevitt and Mannagh can play instead of Bowes, Blicavs, Atkins etc for all I care.
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You're leaving us with SFA to actually select from in the 2024 season!
I'd love to get another look at Knevitt @ AFL level fwiw - I suspect he is capable of doing an Ollie Dempsey on sheer athletic profile alone.

I'm happy to move on from Bowes and Atkins, too, for that matter.
 
Scott is doing well with the cattle I agree, but there are a couple of aspects of the game plan/execution that have irked me for a while.


1. Ball in dispute on wings, we don't get enough to contest. We either have players controlling the corridor, or cheating ahead of the ball. I don't think this is working well.

2. This is the bad one. Our method going into F50 invariably involves the forwards wanting to get the ball while running towards goal, playing behind their opponent. It is great when it works because goals are then much easier to kick. But it often doesn't work because:

a) It requires a longer kick than the ball carrier is sometimes capable of. EDIT: Meaning the defender playing in front gets an easy mark

b) In trying to get a long kick in, the ball carrier often takes longer to settle and gets themselves in trouble. EDIT: Or, in taking longer to kick, gives the defenders in D50 time to structure/get to where the ball is going to be.

c) Worst of all, with the ball in flight longer (often higher too) it just makes it easy for team defence to kill.

d) Not hitting up the short target takes away the opportunity for overlap. Leading towards the ball carrier creates space behind you that a quick overlap handpass/kick can exploit.

I really wish we would fix this. We have several good leading marking forwards, yet instead of using them we always go for pagans paddock goals.
 
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Art Vandelay_ said:
Mitch Duncan is (while cooked in most people's eyes) the 2nd highest ball winner at Geelong in 2024.
A pathetic indictment on the midfield group. You want Mannagh and Knevitt. Fine by me.

Punt Atkins, Blicavs, Bowes, Clark, Bruhn (when fit), Parfitt (when played).
Can I make this crystal clear if your name is in the bolded section I value you as lowest contributors among those getting games, except for MOC and Mullin who are somehow worse.

No name you give me will go out of the side in my eyes before some or most of those bolded. Knevitt and Mannagh can play instead of Bowes, Blicavs, Atkins etc for all I care.
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Atkins had 42 pressure acts tonight which was 10 more than any of the other 45 guys out there.
When we are struggling to apply pressure he will keep getting picked for that reason.

That said hes a very limited player who wont be part of our next contending side (thats ok) and he should be about the 6th best mid in a good side. When atkins is in your top 3 mids you know your midfield is too thin which our issue.

That said while he wont go out
For me its very clear cut that mannagh and knevitt must come in for at least 2 of our current mids and fwds.
The other decisions such as what to do with sdk, whether to replace hawkins with neale or a smaller setup, conway and the rucks, etc are less clear cut but knevitt showed this promise last year and has been our best developing vfl player this year and should be in. And mannagh has clearly done all he can in the vfl and we will need to play him or trade him so now is time to find out. Those 2 are clear cut to me.
 
Larry Donohue said:
Zuthrie SDK Kolo
Stewart Henry Humphries
Holmes Dangerfield Dempsey
Miers Rohan Close
Stengle Cameron Henry
Conway Bowes Atkins
O'Connor Duncan Blicavs Hardie
Mannagh

Let's have a look at them
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I would be inclined to put SDK in the forwardline instead of Henry, and put Blicavs into defense instead of SDK, and drop O'Connor.
 
BORIS332 said:
Hodgey just said TDK was #1 for ranking points but SDK was #2. Just had a look at SDK’s stats - 20 disposals (16 contested), 20 hit outs, 4 clearances and 1.0.
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They would have to be better numbers then any of Blitz, Conway or Rhys have thrown up.
I'd be happy to roll with SDK in the ruck, Neale as back up and either Blitz or COS into defence.
If SDK can turn from Golden Retriever to street dog mongrel and add 5kg, he could be a weapon.
Feel like Conway to fragile and will take a year at least to harden up.

We may as well make some changes and see what we have. Mannagh, Hardie must come in. If we slide so be it.



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Lana said:
There needs to be some acceptance in the organisation that we're no longer looking at the short term.

The list management group needs to make the calls so the MC doesn't have to. They should have made many of them at the end of 23.

I'm strongly against any short turn top up. If Stengle leaves we should bank the pick.
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I agree in principle, but we ain't had a great first round pick besides Holmes ( with any longevity) since 06. A lot of misses. Clark TBD. Are we better at trading our R1s?

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So Rohan. I have mixed.

He comes on and has impact. Playing on wing. 6 possessions for 3rd qtr including intercept goal

Using speed to get 4 uncontested marks. 1 turnover and 2 score involvements

Maybe it is the benefit of being a sub as burst player as you are fresher? Even played on wing.

But then in 4th qtr gets no possessions. And don’t remember any crashing packs or real pressure.

Then compare him to Dempsey who had 7 possessions in Both qtrs and 5 score involvements and decent pressure. After running the first half.

Although then compare to 2E who had 3 possessions each of 3rd and 4th. At 50% efficiency and 1 score involvement. He played 90% game time which amazes me.

So I would have Rohan ahead of 2E any day but starting to wonder whether I would have either.
 

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Review Game days suck - Carlton prevail

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