Game plan

[Colin D'Cops]

Don't doubt your football brain or honesty Ant. Good to see you having a say..

 

[efcboy]

I'm probably missing the point of the original post, but, they were flooding like the Mississippi so I can't say I'm that concerned about our forward efficiency. We locked them in, forced the turnovers, and kicked enough goals to win comfortably - job well done as far as I'm concerned.

Well said. Totally agree

 

[Kong]

Just so you know, Ant, think 90% of us are agreeing with you.

 

[ant555]

Just so you know, Ant, think 90% of us are agreeing with you.

Guess part of the concern is we can make the finals playing like we are now but it is pin pointing these areas that makes the difference to being solid top 2 or 3. I am sure our coach's can see it as well and will work on it.

 

[lemon chicken]

Give credit to Voss, they congested our fwd line, not letting us get the easy balls over the back. We have issues with free scoring from playing a press, i havent got any stats to back it up but IMO majority of our scores either come from transition from defence or quick clearances. Biggest change the last few weeks ive noticed is some qtrs we ditch the zone and go man and man which allows to get more run through the middle of the ground and probably helps with fatigue. Im wrapt we have a coaches box that is willing to make positional or match up changes before the games are over.

 

[rines]

I think it is a very valid point Ant and one that I am sure that coaches will respond to. I recognise that you know all the reasons why we shouldn't be sooking into our beers (interstate, injuries, 1st year of rebuilt game plan etc) but it will need to be addressed if we are to step up after Rnd 11 particularly.

Also need the players to not get ahead of the themselves:
Rnd 1 - Western Bulldogs - GREAT win to start the season, but 1st round is always best chance for an upset depending on training loads, injuries etc.

Rnd 2 - St Kilda - Now looks like a very achievable win (they are below GC ffs)

Rnd 3 - Sydney - Lost to a top 8 contender (even if because of dubious umpiring at the end)

Rnd 4 - Carlton - Draw to top 8 contender (even if because of 2 ACL's etc)

Rnd 5 - Collingwood - Lost to top 8 contender

Rnd 6 - Gold Coast - Easy win

Rnd 7 - West Coast - Good win against last years wooden spooners in VIC and were pushed but don't see WCE finishing above 8 tbh.

Rnd 8 - Brisbane - Scrappy win against potential wooden spooners...

So realistically we have had a good start but not sure we (players and supporters alike) should be getting ahead of the very real uphill battle we face for the rest of the season.

And before you all jump on my back I am ECSTATIC about our performance and improvement this year and am NOT seeking to in ANY way take away from the very real progress made. I just think time for a stock take and tweaking is upon us and hopefully the playing group will consolidate the gains with another 2 wins against Tigs and Melbourne before readying themselves for some tough matches.

 

[Valve Bounce]

Hey! we won by 5 goals; add Hilles misjudged goal and that's six. What the hell more can our guys do? Just leave it to Jimmy - he'll sort it out.

 

[Burzum]

Hey! we won by 5 goals; add Hilles misjudged goal and that's six. What the hell more can our guys do? Just leave it to Jimmy - he'll sort it out.

Regardless of how much we won by, you don't want players falling into bad habits. Which has been obvious over the past few weeks.

 

[Dan26]

I think the win against Brisbane was an underrated performance that didn't do justice to our domination of the game.

75 inside 50's is absurd.

I think the "gameplan" worked well, as the forward defensive pressure created a lot of ping-pong entires straight back again. Relentless.

The problem was, I thought tactically, we were off. Too many of the forward 50 entries were bombs with no though of hitting up a teammate. Brisbane's stacked backline made this hard, admitteldy, but it was also a lack of thought from Essendon at times.

So, in a nutshell, I think gameplan or "ethos" wise, it was exceptional. Just maybe a little more thought into tactically creating a few more smarter forward 50 entires. I thought they should have slowed the game down actually and showed some patience. Try to hit a forward up for the mark, even if it meant chipping it around a bit to find that loose man.

But it's better to be tactically off your game, but with a strong ethos, than the other way around.

 

[efcboy]

The more chipping around the more Brisbane would flood though protecting inside 60m. It was a tactic to bomb long before they got numbers back

 

[TD05]

Transition defense needs work, too many token chases when the oppositions beats our zone. For all his faults alwyn Davey's speed to apply true or perceived pressure maybe needed.

Lack of composure going forward the long kick forward is great but not at the expense of a safer shorter option. We are burning guys that are free to kick to a 1 on 2 or 2 on 3 contest.

I agree that we need the injection of pace which Davey could provide. Perhaps we're getting a little top heavy.

I think the match against Brisbane illustrated just how important Hurley has been for us. Sure, he hasn't turned a match on its head, but he has provided a lot of contests and won some ball. I think we missed him.

I watched the second half of the game on the EFC website, and while we were good, we seemed to lack the intensity and energy that we had earlier in the year. This may just be a travel factor. I don't know. But we'll have to lift to beat the tigers. Having the bye just around the corner may be just what we need.

 

[JimmyHirdJR]

Took Collingwood years to adapt and evolve this gameplan so it will take us a while.

 

[m7jebus]

Personally, I don't think there's much to worry about re: the gameplan - it's just whether our relatively inexperienced squad (currently missing some key players) can execute it sufficiently - which, to me, they have done so far.

Back to the point in the OP about Collingwood and Geelong's superior on-field organisation - these are experienced teams full of Premiership stars who've been playing together at a high level for years. We have a younger crop and an entirely revamped coaching staff looking to implement a system which is rather different from the previous regime's - it doesn't just click together overnight.

It will take time for the forward press and all that to become second nature to these guys. If that is fully achieved (be it this year, or next, or the year after, etc etc), you'll expect to see our players (particularly playmakers like Jetta, Zaharakis, Melksham, etc) pointing at each other much less and improvising much more - changing up the pace, lowering the eyes, zoning off when necessary instead of pressing every time, etc etc...

 

[yaco55]

The more chipping around the more Brisbane would flood though protecting inside 60m. It was a tactic to bomb long before they got numbers back

Used for two reasons

1) Make use of the two rucks in the forward line
2) deep entries into the forward 50 stopping effective defensive rebounds

 

[yaco55]

Ant555

Can you briefly explain how we shore up the central corridor ?

 

[Redb#]

Your going to see more pointing with a younger team learning a game plan compared to Geelong and Collingwood. I think its more a sign that we have been under more pressure in the first half in recent games.

I'm liking that fact that in the 3rd quarter - the premiership quarter, two weeks in a row we've gone Bang! and won the game.

I'm also liking that with every game James Hird 'football genius' learns more about his players, coaching and himself. Good and bad.

Sometimes you learn more from failure than success, we will have failures they are opportunities to learn.

Forget the top 4 position we are worthy top 8 for 2011 anything else is a bonus. But next year

 

[Pweter]

There will be flaws in the game plan at this point in time, we can not expect the team to master it in one pre season. This year is to get the fundamentals firmly pressed into the collective mind of the side. Next season we adjust the finer elements of the plan, plus make adjustments according to any trends that are seen in the comp this season. Season 3 under Hird and we are going all out for the flag.

Prior to the season I had us finishing between 7th and 12th. I've now revised that to between 5th and 9th.

 

[ant555]

Ant555

Can you briefly explain how we shore up the central corridor ?

Set the press back 15 meters and make sure you are in the right spot in the zone and not leave big gaps in the middle.
The players have to resist pushing up to the 50 and inside.

As for a few comments from others, i know they are learning and it takes time. What i commented on is an observation of something that needs fixing before it becomes a problem. That is how you learn.

 

[lamaros]

We've had a few injuries and we're working with a new game plan. Shouldn't players be helping each other to get into the correct position?

Exactly. So what if Geelong and Collingwood players know their gameplan better? You'd ****ing hope so seeing as we've just had ours for one pre-season. Their sides are also a couple of years older than us on average.

Forward delivery is more important an issue at this stage I would say. Too much bombing it to Ryder, who is not a gorilla forward, and hoping for the spoil and crumb. Should be hitting targets better. I think Winders' loss is starting to hurt a bit there, Reimers, Zaka and co are trying, but they don't have the experience and the consistency to provide a target as often as we need. Too much if left to putting it on the big guys heads.

Also, only Jetta seems to have a clue as how to kick it to advantage of the big guys. Need more guys who know how each of the forwards prefer it and deliver it to suit.

 

[hank31]

Do not take it the wrong way as we are playing well but what i see is what i see. I rarely sit around and watch a game as a supporter. I always tend to watch the things we can do better, where the opposition scores from or how they get on top rather than simply barracking . Just the coaching side of me that always comes out.

Yes there are all sorts of reasons why it happens but the simple fact is if you sit down and watch the games sides have been able to score against us because we allow them free run through the middle.
Is it currently a problem ? well no not a huge one as we have been winning. Will it be a problem ? well i do not think we would want to let too many of the better sides have control of the middle and let them have free run to kick to one on one contests in the forward line.

People can keep their head in the sand as much as they want but how many times have i been way off the mark with game trends since i have been posting here ?
If i can see it then i am dam sure opposition coaches have seen it and it looks like they are acting on it given the way they are setting player positioning in the middle of the ground.

Ok, I’ll start my response by saying that while yes, we have occasionally been letting other teams inside and through the corridor I don’t think it’s a major concern. We only average 80pts against this year and are one of the highest average points scoring teams!

To cover more of the corridor, we surely would lose a spot or 2 in our zone somewhere.. For when we have played, this would be a massive risk because whether you like it or not, it has been working and we have been winning. I don’t know our press inside/out, and I don’t believe you do, if you say you do either, but where can we afford to sacrifice players inside our ‘press’ to allow more corridor cover? This could be a complete change of the structure of how we are pressing. Is it worth tinkering with the way we have been playing so well, just to cover the corridor more often?

Lastly, no need to beat your chest and demand respect in your posts, It sounds really arrogant. Most people on here with half a brain appreciate what you have to say and understand that you have worked in the game.

 

[yaco55]

Ok, I’ll start my response by saying that while yes, we have occasionally been letting other teams inside and through the corridor I don’t think it’s a major concern. We only average 80pts against this year and are one of the highest average points scoring teams!

To cover more of the corridor, we surely would lose a spot or 2 in our zone somewhere.. For when we have played, this would be a massive risk because whether you like it or not, it has been working and we have been winning. I don’t know our press inside/out, and I don’t believe you do, if you say you do either, but where can we afford to sacrifice players inside our ‘press’ to allow more corridor cover? This could be a complete change of the structure of how we are pressing. Is it worth tinkering with the way we have been playing so well, just to cover the corridor more often?

Lastly, no need to beat your chest and demand respect in your posts, It sounds really arrogant. Most people on here with half a brain appreciate what you have to say and understand that you have worked in the game.

Think that ANT is suggesting that players in the zone need to push 5 or 10 metres closer to the central corridor.

 

[ant555]

Ok, I’ll start my response by saying that while yes, we have occasionally been letting other teams inside and through the corridor I don’t think it’s a major concern. We only average 80pts against this year and are one of the highest average points scoring teams!

To cover more of the corridor, we surely would lose a spot or 2 in our zone somewhere.. For when we have played, this would be a massive risk because whether you like it or not, it has been working and we have been winning. I don’t know our press inside/out, and I don’t believe you do, if you say you do either, but where can we afford to sacrifice players inside our ‘press’ to allow more corridor cover? This could be a complete change of the structure of how we are pressing. Is it worth tinkering with the way we have been playing so well, just to cover the corridor more often?

Lastly, no need to beat your chest and demand respect in your posts, It sounds really arrogant. Most people on here with half a brain appreciate what you have to say and understand that you have worked in the game.

No the reason the hole is in the middle is there are players too far up in the zone or too close to each other in the zone. You can actually see from game to game where it has changed and where the errors are. No one runs a bloody press that does not cover the middle of the ground !!!! Even Collingwood will use the middle, which they did on ANZAC day when we let then.
We have been winning because we have been getting it 60% to 70% right.
Seriously these comments show just how little you understand the game or have even been watching our games.

As for sounding really arrogant i don't give a toss , have said many times i will not apologize for it.

 

[fishardansin]

Give credit to Voss, they congested our fwd line, not letting us get the easy balls over the back. We have issues with free scoring from playing a press, i havent got any stats to back it up but IMO majority of our scores either come from transition from defence or quick clearances. Biggest change the last few weeks ive noticed is some qtrs we ditch the zone and go man and man which allows to get more run through the middle of the ground and probably helps with fatigue. Im wrapt we have a coaches box that is willing to make positional or match up changes before the games are over.

I'd actually give credit for congesting the ball all over the ground. Made it very hard for our boys.

What is iritating me is the relentless bombing forward even when there are better targets 40m from goal. I understand the the thinking behind it. It is obviously being defensively minded even when we enter our F50. If the ball is kicked to the fat side or in the corridor 40 - 50m from goal it is very dangerous if the oppostion can force a turn over, it usually ends up with a fairly easy transition from one end to the other.

Kicking to the pocket of the side of the ground you are on or bombing to the goal square usually leads to us being able to enforce the forward press.

I still think they need to look for the hit up target first to drag defense away from the goal square. It will lead to more one outs for our resting rucks.

 

[fishardansin]

Also Ant I think a major problem over the last two games has been Fletch's sore knee. He isn't covering the same distance and his ability to read the play means he can pick off long kicks over our zone. With that down it makes the whole structure fall down a bit.

Clearly they wont perfect the press this year. Losing Winderlich and Dempsey has seen a lot of pace out of the team, also not picking Davey adds to that. I'd say that they played it well in the first three rounds. Then after that they didn't push far forward enough. I get the feeling that the coaches have tried to address that and they are now pushing a little too far forward.

Hopefully next season they'll get it right every week. Once they do we'll be able to cover injuries and suspensions that we probably wont be able to cover over the next two games.

 

[yaco55]

Also Ant I think a major problem over the last two games has been Fletch's sore knee. He isn't covering the same distance and his ability to read the play means he can pick off long kicks over our zone. With that down it makes the whole structure fall down a bit.

Clearly they wont perfect the press this year. Losing Winderlich and Dempsey has seen a lot of pace out of the team, also not picking Davey adds to that. I'd say that they played it well in the first three rounds. Then after that they didn't push far forward enough. I get the feeling that the coaches have tried to address that and they are now pushing a little too far forward.

Hopefully next season they'll get it right every week. Once they do we'll be able to cover injuries and suspensions that we probably wont be able to cover over the next two games.

WC are playing a similar system to EFC - And were able to cover the late withdrawals of Embley and Kerr.

Think that if the structures/processes are working - You can cover injuries to a certain extent.