Gary Ayres award (2024)

[Sirlemsip]

Dangerfield was huge too.

I'd likely go:

5. Holmes
4. Mannagh
3. Dangerfield
2. Z.Guthrie
1. Close

Mannagh/Danger interchangeable. Zuthrie/Close interchangeable.

Close was a score involvement machine and his decision making in tight was superb. Missed his shots on goal but was great otherwise. Miers was great too though and did nail.his shots.

Zuthrie was very good as well, but I didn't feel that his involvement on the game was as impactful as the players I had in my list. He was the first one off my list.

Close had 11 score involvements from 15 posessions but 0 tackles, whereas Miers had 6 score involvements from 21 touches (including his own 3 goals) but also had 6 tackles. Miers just worked a lot harder especially early in the game.

Interestingly, according to Champion Data, Close had the lowest 'Player Rating' of the entire Geelong side (including Touhy the sub)

In any case, when one team demolishes the other by 80 points you are going to have 10 or more players worthy of votes, so it really just depends who the coaches felt were impactful.

 

[Mr Meow]

Zuthrie was very good as well, but I didn't feel that his involvement on the game was as impactful as the players I had in my list. He was the first one off my list.

Close had 11 score involvements from 15 posessions but 0 tackles, whereas Miers had 6 score involvements from 21 touches (including his own 3 goals) but also had 6 tackles. Miers just worked a lot harder especially early in the game.

Interestingly, according to Champion Data, Close had the lowest 'Player Rating' of the entire Geelong side (including Touhy the sub)

In any case, when one team demolishes the other by 80 points you are going to have 10 or more players worthy of votes, so it really just depends who the coaches felt were impactful.

I thought someone from our rebounding defence deserved credit as they were a brick wall and got a lot of our moves going. 11 intercepts and 6 score involvements for Zuthrie, going at 96% disposal efficiency from 27 touches. Smooth as butter (smoother than Butters).

Player Ratings, for individual finals, have thrown up some truly bizarre readings over the years. I would just trust a man of the street, like you, having an opinion more than them. Miers could easily take Close's place. I just think Close steadies us so much in chaos when he's "on". He makes a few smart decisions in tight and we settle. Brilliant ball user in and around 50, although sometimes let's himself down on his shots at goal.

A couple will be unlucky to miss out. You're right on that point. Holmes, Mannagh and Danger the stand out 3. A decent pack contending for the next places.

 

[Fadge]

Interestingly, according to Champion Data, Close had the lowest 'Player Rating' of the entire Geelong side (including Touhy the sub)

PlaYeR RaTinGz strikes again!

 

[STPer18]

DANGERFIELD, Holmes and Mannagh the top 3 yesterday.

 

[Gavin Excell]

How are votes awarded?
By coaches?

 

[Fadge]

Is Dangerfield moving ahead of Martin in the GOAT rankings before our very eyes (if he's not already ahead of him)?

 

[PhatBoy]

Is Dangerfield moving ahead of Martin in the GOAT rankings before our very eyes (if he's not already ahead of him)?

Never stands up in finals

 

[Xtreme]

Is Dangerfield moving ahead of Martin in the GOAT rankings before our very eyes (if he's not already ahead of him)?

Has to have a 2017 season first
and win 3 norm smith medals in a row

Until then he's a fair distance behind GOAT Dusty

 

[Gavin Excell]

Is Dangerfield moving ahead of Martin in the GOAT rankings before our very eyes (if he's not already ahead of him)?

I know you're poking the bear here but I think Martin is ahead by a tad

 

[Gavin Excell]

Most Geelong fans reckon he was best player 2022 GF

 

[STPer18]

How are votes awarded?
By coaches?

Yeah it's the exact same format as the AFLCA in-season voting but it starts fresh for finals. The Grand Final has a 1.5x weighting though ie Isaac Smith getting 15 votes in 2022 when a BoG in other finals is only worth 10.

 

[Fadge]

I know you're poking the bear here but I think Martin is ahead by a tad

Martin was ahead by a tad when for all intents and his career finished after 2020.

Since then, Dangerfield has continued to add to his CV, and is going past him as I write this post (if he hasn't gone past him already).

You can't just stop assessing when Martin's effectiveness stops.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Max Holmes would have to be leading after last night. Seriously underrated player outside of Sleepy Hollow.

Might've got his first perfect 10 of the season and take his name off this list:

 

[Cleansweep17]

Is Dangerfield moving ahead of Martin in the GOAT rankings before our very eyes (if he's not already ahead of him)?

No, although he’s probably passing GAJ and already passed Pendles, much better finals player. You know the real season.

 

[Fadge]

No, although he’s probably passing GAJ and already passed Pendles, much better finals player. You know the real season.

Based on this post, you rate Martin ahead of GAJ, which tells all readers everything they need to know about your 'analysis'...

 

[Mr Meow]

Martin was ahead by a tad when for all intents and his career finished after 2020.

Since then, Dangerfield has continued to add to his CV, and is going past him as I write this post (if he hasn't gone past him already).

You can't just stop assessing when Martin's effectiveness stops.

Martin had a more damaging finals peak. However his 2017-2020 sides were also stronger than Geelong's sides during Dangerfield's peak. Take Martin and Dangerfield out of those sides, and Richmond were a better team when it came to finals football.

Dangerfield has Martin on finals outside of his 4 year peak, by a long way. He's had fantastic finals as a 22 year old and as a 32-34 year old. In a whole range of teams, but mostly ones that weren't the best in two in the comp. One thing you can't say about Dangerfield is that he just had a hot 4 years final run in a dynasty side. He's fronted up time and time again, often with his team leaving him too much to do (and that did cook him in finals sometimes). But I'd say he's been his side's best finals player as many times as any player in the modern generation.

Then when it comes to H&A or overall seasons, Dangerfield has put together more at the top level than Martin.

I've had Martin ahead over the years as the 2017-2020 heroics can't be ignored, and Dusty was still a very good player before that. However 2021-2024 there has been such a huge difference in their outputs. Dangerfield has remained our most important player, in a side that contends for premierships against expectation. That is supreme longevity given he picked up his first AA selection 13 seasons ago.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Martin had a more damaging finals peak. However his 2017-2020 sides were also stronger than Geelong's sides during Dangerfield's peak. Take Martin and Dangerfield out of those sides, and Richmond were a better team when it came to finals football.

Dangerfield has Martin on finals outside of his 4 year peak, by a long way. He's had fantastic finals as a 22 year old and as a 32-34 year old. In a whole range of teams, but mostly ones that weren't the best in two in the comp. One thing you can't say about Dangerfield is that he just had a hot 4 years final run in a dynasty side. He's fronted up time and time again, often with his team leaving him too much to do (and that did cook him in finals sometimes). But I'd say he's been his side's best finals player as many times as any player in the modern generation.

Then when it comes to H&A or overall seasons, Dangerfield has put together more at the top level than Martin.

I've had Martin ahead over the years as the 2017-2020 heroics can't be ignored, and Dusty was still a very good player before that. However 2021-2024 there has been such a huge difference in their outputs. Dangerfield has remained our most important player, in a side that contends for premierships against expectation. That is supreme longevity given he picked up his first AA selection 13 seasons ago.

Martin got AA squad last year bro

 

[Cleansweep17]

Martin was ahead by a tad when for all intents and his career finished after 2020.

Since then, Dangerfield has continued to add to his CV, and is going past him as I write this post (if he hasn't gone past him already).

You can't just stop assessing when Martin's effectiveness stops.

Except again, Martin just got AA squad last year. I don’t think you even watch footy.

 

[Mr Meow]

Martin got AA squad last year bro

Martin played half a strong season in 2023 when Richmond's season was effectively over. When Richmond were in finals contention 2021-2024, he was very poor.

Dangerfield has been Geelong's most important player in a premiership (2022) and another contending year (2024). Ask any Geelong supporter who we can cope without the least: Dangerfield, Stewart, Cameron. It's Dangerfield by a mile.

Dangerfield will be on about 175 coaches votes from 2021-2024 after last night. Martin picked up 101.

 

[Fadge]

Except again, Martin just got AA squad last year. I don’t think you even watch footy.

Courtesy of a couple of big games in dead rubbers once Richmond's season was done and Dustied.

His 2021 to 2024 has been nothing but a negative for his 'legacy'.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Martin played half a strong season in 2023 when Richmond's season was effectively over. When Richmond were in finals contention 2021-2024, he was very poor.

Dangerfield has been Geelong's most important player in a premiership (2022) and another contending year (2024). Ask any Geelong supporter who we can cope without the least: Dangerfield, Stewart, Cameron. It's Dangerfield by a mile.

Dangerfield will be on about 175 coaches votes from 2021-2024 after last night. Martin picked up 101.

So it doesn’t count because the team was bad? Fair enough I sort of agree.

Now please discount half of GAJs career.

 

[Mr Meow]

So it doesn’t count because the team was bad? Fair enough I sort of agree.

Now please discount half of GAJs career.

The difference is Ablett was the best in the comp for the parts of the seasons where they could still contend for finals. Go and critique the first half of the 2011-2014 seasons. All the media talk was how awful GC were, yet how dominant GAJ was.

Martin by comparison was really poor 2023 when Richmond could still push for finals (rounds 1-15), then massively lifted once they were locked into a 10th-15th placed finish.

 

[Cleansweep17]

The difference is Ablett was the best in the comp for the parts of the seasons where they could still contend for finals. Go and critique the first half of the 2011-2014 seasons. All the media talk was how awful GC were, yet how dominant GAJ was.

Martin by comparison was really poor 2023 when Richmond could still push for finals (rounds 1-15), then massively lifted once they were locked into a 10th-15th placed finish.

The difference is you pick and choose what suits you.

You keep saying but but but. GAJ stint at GC is exactly what you said about Martins 2023. He did well when the season was over, every season was over for GC. Especially the early ones where they won 3 games for the season. Interestingly that’s when he won his MVP in 2012 and a few AAs. Dud

 

[Lunchtime]

Great....gee Another GAJ vs Martin vs Dangerfield debate.

The three or four of you should take it to another thread, seriously.

 

[Mr Meow]

The difference is you pick and choose what suits you.

You keep saying but but but. GAJ stint at GC is exactly what you said about Martins 2023. He did well when the season was over, every season was over for GC. Especially the early ones where they won 3 games for the season. Interestingly that’s when he won his MVP in 2012 and a few AAs. Dud

Half a strong season from his last 3 isn't close to what Ablett put together 2011-2014 or Dangerfield 2022-2024. Remember Danger is picking up these votes from 16 games a season, going at 70% time on ground. He shouldn't even be in contention for best players on the ground, let alone most important player for premiership winning/contending teams aged 33-35. It's insane.

Martin's final years had glimpses of brilliance but were just not a quality period for him. He would be the first to acknowledge that.