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Geelong v Hawthorn. Time to move it to ANZAC Day
- Thread starter HyperAgressiveDonk
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MadBomberman
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That is because Essendon Vs Carlton is a bigger rivalry then Essendon Vs Collingwood. Essendon Vs Collingwood play on ANZAC day so cannot really be scheduled on rivalry round. What about Hawthorn Vs North? Just admit that the Hawthorn Vs Geelong rivalry became relevant after 2008. Of course they would schedule it at Etihad because it was irrelevant.Because clearly we have played games in the 2002-2007 period at the MCG
ANZAC Day is very likely to be scheduled at Ethiad, right?
So...
When was the last time Collingwood played Essendon (the club they have played once in a GF in more than 100 years) in rivalry round?
In the last rivalry round, 2009, Hawthorn played Geelong in the 20th anniversay of the 1989 decider
Hawthorn also played Essendon in rivalry round, does this mean that the Hawthorn/Essendon rivalry is bigger than the Carlton/Essendon rivalry?
Well 71,000 (average) have rocked up to the last 7...and none of these fixtures have been played on ANZAC Day
The top 2 drawing teams in the last 20 years play on ANZAC day as they can get the most people to the game. Simple. Look at the top 4 teams in terms of crowd numbers this season. Do I see Hawthorn or Geelong? No. The AFL will lose money and viewers if they change ANZAC day clash to Hawthorn Vs Geelong, hence why they wont change it. Simple. Its too late now so think of something else. NRL have ANZAC day clashes... how successful is that? Essendon Vs Collingwood made the clash what it is. You would not
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Do not want. Essendon and Collingwood can keep it.
Yes Lance, forever and ever and ever
Bookmark this. Hawthorn v Geelong will have a higher attendance this week than Essendon v Carlton.
so, HAD, still confident?
Pretty big differential for a game that's two days later. I don't think you have a hope in hell of outdrawing us.
HyperAgressiveDonk
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Mitigating circumstances. The weather forecast for Friday night has been shite, so we obviously won't get a true reflection on the crowd pulling power of the respective clashes.
lol, how convenient
It's finals. Fans go rain hail or shine. I can't buy that at all sorry mate.
HyperAgressiveDonk
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And nor should you
We'll see what happens come the weekend.
all I know is Friday night I'll have the heater cranking, the beer cold, and be sitting snug on my couch watching a shit hot game of pressure, wet-weather footy
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?Still get a crowd mate, like when Ess & Coll have been rubbish
http://stats.rleague.com/afl/teams/hawthorn/allgames_tm.html#9
Plenty of 28k games there.
True, they only pulled 78k in April
What a ridiculous suggestion to make
Considering the weather, 73.5k was an outstanding attendance, given the game wasn't blessed with the 15k fillers that went to the Collingwood-West Coast game
So how did it compare to previous attendances in week 1 MCG games? Good question
2010
Geelong V St Kilda - 63608
Collingwood V W Bulldogs - 66545 (Series Ticket Game)
2009
Geelong V W Bulldogs - 74007 (Series Ticket Game)
St Kilda V Collingwood - 84213
2008
Hawthorn V W Bulldogs - 76703 (Series Ticket Game)
Geelong V St Kilda - 71653
2007
Collingwood V Sydney - 64645
Geelong V Nth Melbourne - 77,630 (Series Ticket Game)
Its hard to imagine Collingwood drawing 66,000 to a final (with Series ticketing) against a Victorian club, isn't it?
I think the latest point here is that for all the huff and puff that Haw V Geelong would be a great outcome for ANZAC Day, Friday nights crowd proved that you can not rely or expect Haw V Geelong to sell out the MCG on ANZAC Day. It wouldn't necessarily pull over 80,000. 2 days later, Ess V Carlton drew 90,000 to a SELL OUT MCG on the Sunday and probably would have sold more if tickets were available. The weekends crowds told quite a strong story with respect to some Vic teams (and combinations of teams) capacity to draw a crowd.
In summary, Ess V Coll on ANZAC Day is guaranteed 80,000+ (and probably 120,000 if the ground had the capacity), Haw V Gee perhaps 80,000 with all the stars aligned.
This analysis ignores the drawing factor of ANZAC day itself. If you remove finals and ANZAC day clashes, the average attendance for home and away games over the last 7 games looks approximately like this:
Hawks vs Cats: 71K
Ess vs Coll: 65K
Based on that, if the current rivalry maintains its intensity there is reason to think with the extra aura (and hyping by the AFL) of the ANZAC day match, that Hawks vs Cats would compare favourably in terms of attendance.
Having said that, I think Hawks/Cats should find their own day. Yes recent ANZAC day clashes have been a bit of a snooze fest, but any particular combination of teams is always going to have an ebb and flow over the years, at the moment, pies are too far ahead to make the games consistently close, but that will change. Hawks vs Cats games have been consistently close for a few years, but hopefully that will change soon too
ManWithNoName
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Can't even pull 80k on a Friday night in a final? And they want ANZAC Day, which can be Tuesday-Thursday? Elle-Oh-Elle
Not quite
Your assertion is flawed given that the game that was played on the public holiday drew no less than 5,000 more to a game then a final
Doesn't that by virtue demonstrate the impact that public holiday scheduling has on crowd attendances - especially night fixtures where Geelong fans are notorious for not showing up (the attendance on Friday Night was a classic example of this, a game that should be close 50/50 was 60/40 in the Hawks favour)
I'm not sure I understand this?
Are you actually suggesting that 73,500 (without the series ticket buffer) is a poor crowd given that inclement weather conditions (7 degrees, swirling winds and raining on and off throughout the day)
The fact that the same fixture earlier this season during the DAY (the day after the ANZAC Day in fact) drew 78,500 I guess is beside the point
Coll v Geel drew 85K the week before in what was a dead rubber.
Hawks are simply not a match for the big clubs in terms of crowd pulling power.
The fact is that Haw v Geel couldn't get 80K to a public holiday game when the two clubs are in the midst of a fierce rivalry and a period where they are consistently contesting finals and playing huge games is pretty fair evidence that the two clubs cant guarantee the big numbers.
Imagine what will happen in 3-4 years when/if the Cats drop down to mid table, or lower like Essendon have been of late....will struggle to crack 60K.
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I don't want them to play on Anzac Day. I'd rather my team didn't have the possibility of playing a game in the middle of the week every few seasons. It was ok this year, because we had the bye the week after (both teams), but if the bye is removed again, I don't want my team's match preparations being compromised. Other teams can guarantee a bigger crowd, whether they're good or not, and I'm perfectly fine with them keeping it.
And yet, home and away Hawks vs Geelong games are pulling bigger crowds recently than non-ANZAC day Pies vs Bombers games. Perhaps you don't count Pies and Bombers as big clubs and were referring to Carlton and Richmond?
You have pulled out the 7 games post the 08GF, that coincide with a fierce rivalry between Geel and Hawthorn where both teams are up and about and the games are close....yet you guys still only avg 71K, the only game to break 70K was this years Easter Monday PUBLIC HOLIDAY game and a final.
The last 5 Coll v Geel games have had crowds of 88K, 84K, 95K (PF), 81K, 85K...much bigger than the Haw v Geel crowds and with no public holiday to inflate the numbers
Essendon have been a rabble of late in recent seasons...if they were going ok the crowds would be enormous, hence why the return game has dropped off to 60K or so.
Pies v Carl 5 of the last 6 games have cracked 80K with the avg being more than 83K...imagine if Coll and Carl or Ess were playing in GFs and other big finals....the crowds would be pushing 90K+ every game
ANZAC day adds 10K tops to the crowd when the teams are struggling...if both tracking well the game would get 85K+ early in the year anyway
Geel v Haw cant get 80K when both teams are at the top of their game, premiership fav's, a brilliant sunny day, and just 3 years after a GF clash....
Coll v Melb = Geel v Haw!
Yes, I think that is the point being made. Coll vs Geelong figures are irrelevant to the argument, which is about whether Pies vs Bombers should be kicked off ANZAC day and replaced with Cats vs Hawks. If you used recent attendance figures as your only criteria, then the answer would be clear, Cats v Hawks games draw bigger crowds than pies vs bombers games outside of ANZAC day. Your estimate of 10K difference for ANZAC day being special is way too low. You pull 21K more on your ANZAC day clashes with the bombers compared to your non-ANZAC day clashes (using the last 7 games of both ANZAC and non-ANZAC between pies and bombers). Given the interest of neutral supporters in Cats v Hawks games in recent times, and the natural drawing power of ANZAC day, I think in the short term at least, the Hawks vs Cats would do pretty well in that slot.
However, as I said in my previous post, I don't think Cats vs Hawks should replace the current ANZAC day fixture. I agree with your point that short to medium term form fluctuations are likely to impact the attendance of Cats v Hawks games even more than they have Pies vs Bombers.
If any change was considered, then the AFL should consider rotating the event, ANZAC day is a special day for all Australians, and it is a pity that only 2 teams ever get the right to enjoy the atmosphere that surrounds such a special day. This kind of thing can't be balanced by giving other clubs their own "special day" , as ANZAC day is special in its own right, and we don't have too many other days like that to go around. Rotation would avoid the recent unfortunate situation where the quality of the games as a spectacle have been somewhat diminished in recent times.
Would you kindly quote examples of Hawks V Cats outdrawing non Anzac Pies V Bombers while one or other club is consistently struggling?
If you can't ( and of course as you well know it can't be done ) you are simply quoting a match up of teams which are coincieentally up and about and trying to pretend that is a par score. Transparent mate..transparent.
Blue V Bombers easily outdrew the Hawk V Geelong game as any Big 4 clash would in like for like situation. Everyone, you included, knows this.
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