Banter Geelong V Richmond - GO!

[Wosh]

In the interests of keeping your back and forth shite fights out of match threads so normal people can talk.

Keep it clean and above the shorts
Off topic rubbish clogging up match threads will be moved here, knock yourselves out.

 

[Lsta062]

Which Richmond players who are yet to turn 24, have had the best seasons for Richmond in 2024?

Ralphsmith, Ross, Ryan, Dow, MRJ, Sonsie, Cumberland, Banks, Brown, Green, Blight, Smith, Campbell and McAuliffe have had chances to shine. That could be the nucleus of the team in 3-5 years, along with the 18 year olds you pick up in this year's draft. Gibcus is he can ever get a good run at it.

They’re pre-rebuild youth. This year’s our first proper rebuild year in my opinion. Let’s see how the next few years go and what players we can get on our list.

 

[Mr Meow]

They’re pre-rebuild youth. This year’s our first proper rebuild year in my opinion. Let’s see how the next few years go and what players we can get on our list.

Yeah this is how I view things too. Get a stack of first round draft picks this year and build a new nucleus that will peak in 5-7 years. Things can happen quicker of course, but that's just a conservative estimate.

 

[Mr Meow]

1. No, find me a dynasty that didn’t have a b2b in it. I’ll take it all back

You also didn’t have:

- The same coach for all 3 flags

-The same captain for all 3 flags

- The best player for all 3 flags

2. The whole defence couldn’t handle Dew. Which included Enright and Scarlett. Dusty would’ve taken them to the cleaners. Anyway I’ve done this debate to death with PB just leave it.

Dynasty in sports terms comes from America. A bunch of the dynasties they define did not involve back to back franchise victories. I don't think you're genuinely interested but if you are I can mention them specifically.

 

[Footy_Fan2007]

The whole defence couldn’t handle Dew. Which included Enright and Scarlett. Dusty would’ve taken them to the cleaners. Anyway I’ve done this debate to death with PB just leave it.

Just like Dusty took Collingwood to the cleaners in the 2018 prelim?

Your whole defence couldn’t handle Mason Cox!!

 

[Footy_Fan2007]

Dynasty in sports terms comes from America. A bunch of the dynasties they define did not involve back to back franchise victories. I don't think you're genuinely interested but if you are I can mention them specifically.

Why does he keep mentioning back to back? Who even cares about that?
We’ve see the 4 flags in a 15 year period. Who cares what order they are in!

 

[Mr Meow]

Why does he keep mentioning back to back? Who even cares about that?
We’ve see the 4 flags in a 15 year period. Who cares what order they are in!

It's just a coping mechanism.

Supporters of both clubs are rightly satisfied with their 21st century exploits, even if Richmond had a more of the tough stuff scattered through.

It's delusional though to claim that winning a back to back flag (to make it 3 premierships) in a shortened COVID format in Queensland, is a more satisfying journey than winning 4 in 15 at the G in normal seasons. The latter side was also competitive in between and you have to be a perennial loser to think you'd rather wooden spoon seasons than preliminary final/grand final ones. The heart break is worth being in the hunt, as long as you do end up saluting (2022 was important in that respect).

Sure, Geelong could've ended up with 6-7 premierships 2007-2022 but only Hawthorn supporters are used to that kind of excess. We went through '89-'95 (which was still pretty exciting anyway, we simply faced some incredible teams on GF days). The Selwood/Hawkins era of 2007-2022 had its fair share of devastating finals losses and spectacular triumphs. Any supporter who went through a run like that got plenty of value and was invested the whole time. We're fully ready to have a less relevant period like '98-'03. It's merely annoying other supporters that there is a delay.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Why does he keep mentioning back to back? Who even cares about that?
We’ve see the 4 flags in a 15 year period. Who cares what order they are in!

It's the difference between 300 gamers who've played 30+ finals against 300 gamers who've played half as many finals.

It's the difference between having three successive premiership captains (your last three who've retired) vs one premiership captain.

It's the difference between having two coaches (the only two that you've had since the turn of the millenium) being automatic inclusions in the top half dozen AFL coaches of the 21st century and a line of successive coaches going back to the 1980s who've guided Geelong to a grand final vs one successful coach and a long line of spectacular failures, going back 3+ decades.

It's defying the odds to be top four again in 2024 with two players in the 22under22 team (the likely Rising Star and likely B&F winners) vs two wins, the wooden spoon, zero rising star nominations and zero players even nominated in the initial 22under22 squad.

People can please themselves. I know what I'd prefer if I could pick.

 

[Tonythetiger]

Why does he keep mentioning back to back? Who even cares about that?
We’ve see the 4 flags in a 15 year period. Who cares what order they are in!

If you are trying to debate the level of difficulty and looking to define what constitutes a dynasty, then I can see why it would be important. I'd be leaning towards just Brisbane and Hawthorn being actual dynasties. Richmond and Geelong both experienced a period of success at the top. The Cats winning 4 in 15 years is impressive sure but 2022 sort of sits separate I feel.

I would probably say 2008 for the Hawks wouldn't be part of the dynasty but just part of the Clarkson era which was a massive success for their club.

For mine it's Lions at the top, then Hawks, then the 3 in 5 and 3 in 4 Geelong/Richmond sides are about even. Though I think Geelong 100% would have had a more talented group during those flags than what Richmond had. Richmond changed the game a lot and when you have triple premiership player Jason Castagna it tells you that we made the most of what we had and tailored our game plan to suit.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

If you are trying to debate the level of difficulty and looking to define what constitutes a dynasty, then I can see why it would be important. I'd be leaning towards just Brisbane and Hawthorn being actual dynasties. Richmond and Geelong both experienced a period of success at the top. The Cats winning 4 in 15 years is impressive sure but 2022 sort of sits separate I feel.

I know you're not trying to be critical and I honestly don't care if people rate Brisbane, Hawthorn and Richmond's eras more highly than Geelong's, but to say Geelong can't be considered a dynasty because they never went back-to-back is just plain wrong, as far as I'm concerned.

BY DEFINITION - what Geelong has achieved from 2007 until 2022 or beyond is MUCH closer to a dynasty than what Brisbane, Hawthorn or Richmond did. Brisbane and Richmond aren't even close.

Definition of DYNASTY

a succession of rulers of the same line of descent; a powerful group or family that maintains its position for a considerable time… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

: a succession of rulers of the same line of descent (see descent sense 1a)
a dynasty that ruled China for nearly 300 years
2
: a powerful group or family that maintains its position for a considerable time

That - to me - is overhauling the entire team between 2007 and 2022, with only one player lining up in both grand final teams, while remaining in contention almost constantly through that entire period, never missing top four in consecutive seasons.

How is a dynasty the same coach, same captain, practically the same superstars, practically the same team rolling out for a period of four years of dominance and then going straight into the wilderness indefinitely once people start leaving? Why do people call it that? It's simply not. Give it another word.

 

[Delisted]

Dynasty teams don't have fake crowd noise at their cheat grounds.

 

[STPer18]

I wouldn't imagine dynasty teams play home games interstate, and get told they can't turn the lights on when they want forcing them to reschedule at the last moment.

 

[Delisted]

I wouldn't imagine dynasty teams play home games interstate, and get told they can't turn the lights on when they want forcing them to reschedule at the last moment.

 

[My Tilly]

Dynasty teams don't have fake crowd noise at their cheat grounds.

You have posted this on numerous occasions now. Did you hear this on talkback radio where Dermott Brereton questioned why it was the case?

 

[STPer18]

"Our home ground conditions are dictated to us by an interstate government. We prostrate ourselves before them, willingly."

 

[Delisted]

You have posted this on numerous occasions now. Did you hear this on talkback radio where Dermott Brereton questioned why it was the case?

My Geelong mates complain about it. It's funny. Why is it the case?

 

[Cleansweep17]

Just like Dusty took Collingwood to the cleaners in the 2018 prelim?

Your whole defence couldn’t handle Mason Cox!!

He was injured and you know it.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Why does he keep mentioning back to back? Who even cares about that?
We’ve see the 4 flags in a 15 year period. Who cares what order they are in!

Geelong fan doesn’t care about b2b. What a shock horror I’m sure the club he supports doesn’t influence his decision making at all

 

[Cleansweep17]

Dynasty in sports terms comes from America. A bunch of the dynasties they define did not involve back to back franchise victories. I don't think you're genuinely interested but if you are I can mention them specifically.

We live in Australia and play a different sport so yeah

 

[Cleansweep17]

It's the difference between 300 gamers who've played 30+ finals against 300 gamers who've played half as many finals.

It's the difference between having three successive premiership captains (your last three who've retired) vs one premiership captain.

It's the difference between having two coaches (the only two that you've had since the turn of the millenium) being automatic inclusions in the top half dozen AFL coaches of the 21st century and a line of successive coaches going back to the 1980s who've guided Geelong to a grand final vs one successful coach and a long line of spectacular failures, going back 3+ decades.

It's defying the odds to be top four again in 2024 with two players in the 22under22 team (the likely Rising Star and likely B&F winners) vs two wins, the wooden spoon, zero rising star nominations and zero players even nominated in the initial 22under22 squad.

People can please themselves. I know what I'd prefer if I could pick.

Nobody would prefer a 3 in 5 over 3 in 4 and 3peat all things being equal.

Would you trade 2011 for 2008. I bet you would any day of the week don’t BS me on that. That 2008 team probably would’ve been considered better in bombers 2000 if they won it.

 

[Delisted]

It's obvious Geelong wanted to spread their premierships out to enjoy them more. Very tactical.

 

[Cleansweep17]

It's obvious Geelong wanted to spread their premierships out to enjoy them more. Very tactical.

Yeah we should’ve both thrown 2014 and 2020 flags to look better

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Nobody would prefer a 3 in 5 over 3 in 4 and 3peat all things being equal.

Would you trade 2011 for 2008. I bet you would any day of the week don’t BS me on that. That 2008 team probably would’ve been considered better in bombers 2000 if they won it.

Would I have preferred 2008 over 2011? If the following decade plus still folded out exactly the same? Yeah, maybe. But these things don't occur in a vacuum. The 2011 flag is possibly the most satisfying one for me. Completely written off pre-season, to have one of the all-time kick arse seasons, 19-3, handing our nearest rivals their only three losses of the year. And spanking probably the three teams I'd have most liked to given the choice (Hawthorn, West Coast, Collingwood - accounting for four of our grand final losses and the team that ended our premiership era 12 months earlier). I appreciated it - and 2009 - than if we'd just won in 2008, put it that way.

If we'd won in 2008 and not 2011, do Chris Scott and Tom Hawkins become the coach and player, respectively that they did? That was their coming out party. One of the all-time cult heroes, Podsiadly, doesn't win a flag. Ling never becomes a premiership captain. Ling and Ottens don't end their careers with a premiership. Every player who played in the 2008 grand final loss subsequently played in a premiership team for the Cats. Almost every relevant player who debuted for the Cats for about a 20 year period from the mid/late 90s to the mid/late 10s has become a premiership player.

Funnily enough, given how it's played out, I feel like I couldn't have picked a better time to be born, as a Geelong supporter. The Cats were already more than halfway into their premiership drought when I started following the football. There were times when I wondered if they'd win one in my lifetime. I've no idea what it feels like to see your club win a flag as a 6-10 year old. I was in my 20s, so there's that appreciation: no guarantees I'll see another one and old enough to properly celebrate it.

I appreciate the struggle. I appreciate the minor premiership teams who couldn't quite get it done as great teams that deserve to be celebrated. I appreciate believing that 'this is the year' and being let down numerous times. That's all part of it. It isn't supposed to be easy. And to me, it makes me feel as though I appreciate the four we have in my lifetime a bit more.

 

[Footy_Fan2007]

He was injured and you know it.

But but but but but.
Delete your post immediately.
We don’t deal with hypotheticals mate.
If he plays he’s fit.
The end.

 

[Cleansweep17]

But but but but but.
Delete your post immediately.
We don’t deal with hypotheticals mate.
If he plays he’s fit.
The end.

So you do know. I’m just surprised you would trade your integrity to try and win an argument. Shame.

 

[Mr Meow]

Would I have preferred 2008 over 2011? If the following decade plus still folded out exactly the same? Yeah, maybe. But these things don't occur in a vacuum. The 2011 flag is possibly the most satisfying one for me. Completely written off pre-season, to have one of the all-time kick arse seasons, 19-3, handing our nearest rivals their only three losses of the year. And spanking probably the three teams I'd have most liked to given the choice (Hawthorn, West Coast, Collingwood - accounting for four of our grand final losses and the team that ended our premiership era 12 months earlier). I appreciated it - and 2009 - than if we'd just won in 2008, put it that way.

If we'd won in 2008 and not 2011, do Chris Scott and Tom Hawkins become the coach and player, respectively that they did? That was their coming out party. One of the all-time cult heroes, Podsiadly, doesn't win a flag. Ling never becomes a premiership captain. Ling and Ottens don't end their careers with a premiership. Every player who played in the 2008 grand final loss subsequently played in a premiership team for the Cats. Almost every relevant player who debuted for the Cats for about a 20 year period from the mid/late 90s to the mid/late 10s has become a premiership player.

Funnily enough, given how it's played out, I feel like I couldn't have picked a better time to be born, as a Geelong supporter. The Cats were already more than halfway into their premiership drought when I started following the football. There were times when I wondered if they'd win one in my lifetime. I've no idea what it feels like to see your club win a flag as a 6-10 year old. I was in my 20s, so there's that appreciation: no guarantees I'll see another one and old enough to properly celebrate it.

I appreciate the struggle. I appreciate the minor premiership teams who couldn't quite get it done as great teams that deserve to be celebrated. I appreciate believing that 'this is the year' and being let down numerous times. That's all part of it. It isn't supposed to be easy. And to me, it makes me feel as though I appreciate the four we have in my lifetime a bit more.

Bingo.

2009 and 2011 were even more satisfying than the drought breaker of 2007, because we had been written off and had gone through a poor exit the year before. It looked like we had blown creating an epic era both times, firstly looking like "one and done" and then "this group really under delivered to end up with just 2 flags".

2009 and 2011 our main rivals were both more hyped and favoured for the majority. Both started their grand finals well. The second halves by Geelong were epic.