No Oppo Supporters General AFL and other clubs discussion thread. **Opposition fans not welcome** Part 6

[Chief]

This is Part 6.

You can post in Part 7 here:

No Oppo Supporters - General AFL and other clubs discussion thread. **Opposition fans not welcome** Part 7

Previous chat threads can be found here https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/general-afl-and-other-clubs-discussion-thread-opposition-fans-not-welcome-part-5.1223668/ https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/general-afl-and-other-clubs-discussion-thread-opposition-fans-not-welcome-part-6.1244786/

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[TassieGrown]

He said himself he would like to give back to the bid if approved. And the club doesn't just build itself. Building a new club from the ground up is something I can see Clarko being interested in. I think his future lies beyond coaching.

I would love nothing more than the great man being part of the team that gets Tassie up and away, i just don’t think that he will be sitting around waiting for that day as it could be a long wait. I hope it’s only a 2 to 3 year wait but I feel it will be longer than that.

I do agree that his long term future will be non coaching related

 

[The hands of stone]

The 'Alastair Clarkson might be coaching us ' shirt

They are selling these in the Blues supporter shops .

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Just saw Grant Thomas’ proposal for reforming the Brownlow. I agree it needs to become less focussed on midfielders - but rather than radical reform wouldn’t the simplest option be to not give the umpires the stars sheet? This way they’re voting on what they saw on the field without being swayed by the disposal stats.

 

[MrPremiership]

Just saw Grant Thomas’ proposal for reforming the Brownlow. I agree it needs to become less focussed on midfielders - but rather than radical reform wouldn’t the simplest option be to not give the umpires the stars sheet? This way they’re voting on what they saw on the field without being swayed by the disposal stats.

from memory this changed a few years ago

Umpires gave votes without looking at stats. In any event, i don't think it stops mids from winning it anyway.

Interestingly, the Coaches Award had a similar amount of mids at the top compared to other positions. Ditto the AFLPA MVP award.

 

[Brishawk]

Just saw Grant Thomas’ proposal for reforming the Brownlow. I agree it needs to become less focussed on midfielders - but rather than radical reform wouldn’t the simplest option be to not give the umpires the stars sheet? This way they’re voting on what they saw on the field without being swayed by the disposal stats.

100%. It’s obvious they lean on it. Only problem is they can see it on the scoreboard.

 

[kirbatron]

stats or no stats... the more relevant bit is the perception of value & importance across positions. until this changes nothing will change

 

[Steven Tyler]

The best players play in the midfield
It’s why midfielders win most awards every year

 

[tommyk72]

The best players play in the midfield
It’s why midfielders win most awards every year

I’d adjust that slightly to say that the most impactful players play in the midfield. By their position they are around the ball a lot more and generally have a bigger influence on the game than those parked in either 50.

 

[H00t]

The best players play in the midfield
It’s why midfielders win most awards every year

Further more mids aren’t dependent on other players playing well. They get are a chance to get votes all 22 games.

As a forward if your midfield is getting dominated you can forget getting votes.

Plus coaching mindset has had a big effect on the Brownlow. Coaches go head to head in the midfield a lot more, where as forwards get minded a lot more closely and defenders have to worry about their opponent first.

 

[Stratton24]

The media are complaining that all the Brownlow votes go to mids yet in all their media awards it’s exactly the same.

 

[Kil Phearns]

Richmond have signed Teague as an assistant coach.

 

[deanc]

stats or no stats... the more relevant bit is the perception of value & importance across positions. until this changes nothing will change

Concur, but with the evolving game style of recent times, the umpires task of judging which 3 players had the most influence during a match is not getting any easier.
I always liked the Brownlow medal as it's unique and not just another media or similar award, but the worrying trend is generally fewer players are receiving votes these days, while there is an increasing amount of BOG performances that are somehow ignored by the umps. Related, I think there was 7 or 8 matches this year where a player received the maximum 10 coaches votes, yet somehow didn't poll one Brownlow vote..?

A few real head scratchers this year include; young Taylor's BOG effort shutting down Hawkins when GWS played and upset the Cats at Kardinia Park, which he didn't even get a vote for - conversely, Bontempelli's AFL record 15 clangers in a match vs the Suns, yet he was still somehow awarded 3 votes..?

And while some claim umpires votes can be media influenced, I'd double down and introduce a policy whereby one umpire (random/toss of the coin) is directed to watch a replay of the match at his earliest convenience - and he has the right to review and change votes for that match if he deems necessary..? Of course he would receive a few extra shekel's and some Maccas vouchers for his extra duties...

 

[KermitJagger]

I hate this idea of changing the Brownlow because you don't like how it's decided. How about... prioritise other awards that are more equitable? Come up with an AFL version of the DPOY. Celebrate the Coleman Medal more. Stop tuning in just to complain that another midfielder won it. Can't really blame em for giving votes to midfielders given how much time the ball spends between the arcs.

The Brownlow is a medal decided by the umpires, always has been. No point changing it.

 

[Nastyfish]

I’d adjust that slightly to say that the most impactful players play in the midfield. By their position they are around the ball a lot more and generally have a bigger influence on the game than those parked in either 50.

Buddy in his day. Did he get much love? I can’t recall.

 

[cryptor]

The Brownlow is a medal decided by the umpires, always has been.

Not true.

 

[TBoyleSuperstar]

Buddy in his day. Did he get much love? I can’t recall.

he did in 2008 from memory.
Top few if memory serves

 

[moginie]

Buddy in his day. Did he get much love? I can’t recall.

Not really. The year he kicked 113 goals he also gave away a record amount of frees and got reported against the crows.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Not true.

When was it not an umpire voted award?

 

[KermitJagger]

Not true.

Care to expand on that?

 

[cryptor]

When was it not an umpire voted award?

Care to expand on that?

Never mind. I’m wrong. I thought I heard them say on the coverage Sunday night that early on there was a period where it wasn’t umpire voted, but a quick check online doesn’t confirm that. The coverage was so dull that I clearly hallucinated an alternate history for the award

 

[TAITA]

Never mind. I’m wrong. I thought I heard them say on the coverage Sunday night that early on there was a period where it wasn’t umpire voted, but a quick check online doesn’t confirm that. The coverage was so dull that I clearly hallucinated an alternate history for the award

They definitely said it.

Media, Umpires, Fanboi - same, same, not different.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

I think Ladhams for the Saints and Dunstan for the Dons would be nice depth players for both clubs, that's the way it's shaping up isn't it ?

 

[Brishawk]

I hate this idea of changing the Brownlow because you don't like how it's decided. How about... prioritise other awards that are more equitable? Come up with an AFL version of the DPOY. Celebrate the Coleman Medal more. Stop tuning in just to complain that another midfielder won it. Can't really blame em for giving votes to midfielders given how much time the ball spends between the arcs.

The Brownlow is a medal decided by the umpires, always has been. No point changing it.

I agree with this. But also, it doesn’t mean some cognitive bias hasn’t crept into the umpires process.

the players association thought their award would take over the Brownlow but everyone realised it was a shallow popularity contest and ignored it. I think most on here would agree that the media love to tell simple stories about champion players and emerging talent and take up a cause of the week regularly. I don’t think people have every taken any media award too seriously. The Brownlow has stood the test of time because it is still the best way. Tweak it we can. Train umpires to be a little more objective too. But nothing is going to take away from the dominance of midfielders in awards generally because they dominate games week in week out.

 

[KermitJagger]

I agree with this. But also, it doesn’t mean some cognitive bias hasn’t crept into the umpires process.

the players association thought their award would take over the Brownlow but everyone realised it was a shallow popularity contest and ignored it. I think most on here would agree that the media love to tell simple stories about champion players and emerging talent and take up a cause of the week regularly. I don’t think people have every taken any media award too seriously. The Brownlow has stood the test of time because it is still the best way. Tweak it we can. Train umpires to be a little more objective too. But nothing is going to take away from the dominance of midfielders in awards generally because they dominate games week in week out.

Oh for sure, you just need to look at the vote tallies. The vote record has been broken, broken again and matched since 2016. Umpires get caught up in the hype around players, but I don't think there's a way to remedy that.

I'd love to see other medals treated with the same importance, as I said. It would be great to have an award to recognise an elite defender every year because they get zero recognition currently.

The Coaches award should be the highest rated individual award. The coaches are the people that know best who did the damage.

 

[TylerDurden]

Oh for sure, you just need to look at the vote tallies. The vote record has been broken, broken again and matched since 2016. Umpires get caught up in the hype around players, but I don't think there's a way to remedy that.

I'd love to see other medals treated with the same importance, as I said. It would be great to have an award to recognise an elite defender every year because they get zero recognition currently.

The Coaches award should be the highest rated individual award. The coaches are the people that know best who did the damage.

It is. But there is clearly bias.