No Oppo Supporters General AFL discussion and other club news

[Ned Ryerson]

You need to stop with the 'someone hired to serve drinks decided to be a dick' line of thinking.

Someone employed to do a job, saw a bunch of people acting inappropriately and spoke up. This is genrally considered good behaviour, not bad.

As I said previously, who is to say that this 'bar person' doesn't have very really or lived experience with sexual assault or something similar that they simply refused to walk passed. We should be applauding them for having the strength to do so, not calling them a dick.

I can only hope our own players take heed and learn the lesson from the Giants.

I’ll take that on board and rescind the ‘be a dick’ line in case that person does have a lived experience. Anyone has the right to be offended - but if this is the case why not take it up with the club internally and have them deal with it. If they don’t - then sure go to the press or social media. This constant requirement to go the full media shaming just gains nothing. If the worst sins committed were some crass jokes about Diddy - 5 figure fines would be manifestly inappropriate and will only make the players bitter. Educate and counsel them and there might be a hell of a lot more good come for it. Go have them do a coaching clinic for kids of women living in crisis care or something similar - give them a first hand look at how tough people might have it. The name, shame and fine/suspend mentality does nothing constructive. There are are multiple comedians earning a lot better money than these footy players who continue to make jokes at the expense of Bill Cosby, Harvey Weinstein, Diddy and the like to this day - if we are going to punish these blokes the only crime here is likely the jokes not being well crafted.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Sydney's 2022 draft is all time cluster.

Traded pick 18 when it was their turn, which we ultimately used on Josh Weddle.

They then had picks 20 and 27.
Pick 20 was Jacob Konstanty who they just traded to North Melbourne as steak knives alongside Luke Parker

26

Luke Parker

Age

32

Ht

183cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

24.2

5star

K

12.6

5star

HB

11.6

5star

M

3.8

4star

T

5.6

5star

CL

5.8

5star

D

22.1

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

9.9

5star

M

3.9

4star

T

5.0

5star

CL

5.5

5star

D

21.2

5star

K

11.4

4star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

8.0

5star

CL

5.2

5star

.
Pick 27 was Cooper Vickery who they've already delisted.

 

[FB19]

I’ll take that on board and rescind the ‘be a dick’ line in case that person does have a lived experience. Anyone has the right to be offended - but if this is the case why not take it up with the club internally and have them deal with it. If they don’t - then sure go to the press or social media. This constant requirement to go the full media shaming just gains nothing. If the worst sins committed were some crass jokes about Diddy - 5 figure fines would be manifestly inappropriate and will only make the players bitter. Educate and counsel them and there might be a hell of a lot more good come for it. Go have them do a coaching clinic for kids of women living in crisis care or something similar - give them a first hand look at how tough people might have it. The name, shame and fine/suspend mentality does nothing constructive. There are are multiple comedians earning a lot better money than these footy players who continue to make jokes at the expense of Bill Cosby, Harvey Weinstein, Diddy and the like to this day - if we are going to punish these blokes the only crime here is likely the jokes not being well crafted.

Agree it’s unlikely we are dealing with anyone evil, just young and stupid and didn’t think about the consequences of their actions. I am certainly guilty of dumb not thought out actions that hurt people in my youth, but it was far more effective when the impact was explained to me in driving behavioural change than a whack on the nose with a rolled up newspaper. Suggest a combination of getting important women in their life to talk it through and as you say maybe add
Community service in a women’s shelter or similar would be a far more constructive approach.

 

[Fluro Boots]

Looks like the AFL have won the race to be offended again. What a joke.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Simulating sexual assault is going to get you in a shit tonne of trouble if you do it at a work christmas party. This is no different.

If your work Christmas party involves the young men you play footy with and absolutely nobody else then I'd actually argue that it's very different.

Especially considering this wasn't a Christmas party but a planned event known for its rowdiness, hidden away from the publics eye-line.
If the female physios from the club (as an example) were also in attendance then I could imagine it being a bit more inappropriate.


Dark topical humour isn't a crime. Dark topical humour at a planned private event is even less egregious IMO.

You would honestly be surprised at the improvement in 'locker room talk' over the years. I can guarantee the boys playing footy now are having more respectful conversations than any previous generation. That's partly why I'm even more convinced they need to be given more leniency here. A silly, one-time event is worth a warning, not suspensions and fines.

Again, however, I will happily put my hand up and admit that I'm wrong if something more salacious pops up from this story.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Fining Toby Greene

4

Toby Greene

Age

31

Ht

182cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

22.7

5star

K

12.5

5star

HB

10.2

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

3.0

5star

G

1.2

4star

D

17.5

4star

K

9.5

4star

HB

8.0

4star

M

4.8

4star

T

1.0

2star

G

2.3

5star

D

26.6

5star

K

12.4

5star

HB

14.2

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

3.6

5star

G

0.0

1star

for just happening to be there is beyond the pale also. Hopefully the AFLPA get involved on that one at the very least.

 

[Mercy Seat]

But they were at a private function and some person hired to serve drinks decided to be a dick about it. They weren’t putting it on their TikTok for mass consumption. It was stupid and, again, I could think of a better way to get on the piss with my mates. But, anything punitive is absurd and making the players do something that benefits the community, not the governing body’s bank account, would be a better response.

I think there will be more to come out than just what’s been said publicly so far

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I think there will be more to come out than just what’s been said publicly so far

And I’m happy to change my take if it turns out they’ve done far worse.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

When Princess Diana died, there were jokes popping up everywhere. As when Richard Carlton died at Beaconsfield. Ricky Gervais at one of his Golden Globe hustings was making references to Harvey Weinstein.

The players were obviously making references to the current events of Piddy and the like. The biggest mistake they made was probably going a little too far with their skits.

It was a private function, where a person made their choice to be anal retentive and be offended.

Yeah but why stop there, we also had a bunch of guys put on black face on hey hey it’s Saturday and cause us international embarrassment for being a nation full of racists who didn’t understand what the big deal was… actually Hey Hey routinely made fun of Kamahl and how black he was… I guess it was cool then, it should be cool now…. The world hasn’t changed at all, has it?

 

[Symons]

If the female physios from the club (as an example) were also in attendance then I could imagine it being a bit more inappropriate.

I'm not jumping on you here; I do totally get that it's a mind-shift from 'boys being boys' - and most of us realise that this is just young people being daft and a bit thoughtless, but I think this sentiment is what the sanctions are working towards changing.

It isn't just:

'don't behave in a way around people who you have decided (based on stereotypes of gender, age, sexuality) could be offended by your actions'

it should be:

'don't behave in a way that could cause offence'

If you're self-policing around certain sections of society, then it creates an exclusive environment. The unintentional lesson from this sort of scenario is that this behaviour is totally ok just as long as there aren't any women around. You don't want young men deciding that women spoil all their fun and are nags and they can't be themselves around them etc.

I do understand why it looks a bit over the top on the surface (with what information has been given so far) - but that's probably some of the reasoning.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I’ll take that on board and rescind the ‘be a dick’ line in case that person does have a lived experience. Anyone has the right to be offended - but if this is the case why not take it up with the club internally and have them deal with it. If they don’t - then sure go to the press or social media. This constant requirement to go the full media shaming just gains nothing. If the worst sins committed were some crass jokes about Diddy - 5 figure fines would be manifestly inappropriate and will only make the players bitter. Educate and counsel them and there might be a hell of a lot more good come for it. Go have them do a coaching clinic for kids of women living in crisis care or something similar - give them a first hand look at how tough people might have it. The name, shame and fine/suspend mentality does nothing constructive. There are are multiple comedians earning a lot better money than these footy players who continue to make jokes at the expense of Bill Cosby, Harvey Weinstein, Diddy and the like to this day - if we are going to punish these blokes the only crime here is likely the jokes not being well crafted.

Mate, you so far off the plot here it’s actually maddening.

The person who saw the players making light of sexual assault made a complaint and the AFL investigated, they did not go to the media.

As for the stuff about going full media shaming, I think you’d likely blow your mind if you knew the amount of things that don’t make the media about players or the shit they pull.

These 20 something year olds get paid an absolute fortune to live their dream, so I don’t think you need feel sympathy for them losing $15k and being told to act better.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Mate, you so far off the plot here it’s actually maddening.

The person who saw the players making light of sexual assault made a complaint and the AFL investigated, they did not go to the media.

As for the stuff about going full media shaming, I think you’d likely blow your mind if you knew the amount of things that don’t make the media about players or the shit they pull.

These 20 something year olds get paid an absolute fortune to live their dream, so I don’t think you need feel sympathy for them losing $15k and being told to act better.

It’s not about sympathy for the players - it’s about punitive measures that do absolutely nothing to create a better understanding in the players about how their actions might have impacted people. Now they’re just going to be pissed off at the individual and likely more bitter about the scenario. All that does is foster more negative feelings. All the while the AFL pockets the fines. How is society any better off with this outcome?

I’ve never once said the players should get off Scott free - I’m saying that counselling and community engagement would be a far better outcome.

 

[Dipper]

Fining Toby Greene for just happening to be there is beyond the pale also. Hopefully the AFLPA get involved on that one at the very least.

Exactly they try and do people as if it's joint enterprise laws, unless you jump up and show your horror then you're guilty too, the thought police infer that your lack of disgust is an admission of complicity.

It should be called "Chris Fagan's nod".

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

It’s not about sympathy for the players - it’s about punitive measures that do absolutely nothing to create a better understanding in the players about how their actions might have impacted people. Now they’re just going to be pissed off at the individual and likely more bitter about the scenario. All that does is foster more negative feelings. All the while the AFL pockets the fines. How is society any better off with this outcome?

I’ve never once said the players should get off Scott free - I’m saying that counselling and community engagement would be a far better outcome.

No they’re not, because they’ll be reminded of the training and the talks that they no doubt had multiple times once drafted regarding respect for women and standards of behaviour.

Were they asleep when Tarryn Thomas got the arse from the league?

You’re making out like they’d have no idea that what they were doing was inappropriate, when the fact they’d made this a private function suggests that they knew exactly how they wanted to behave.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

No they’re not, because they’ll be reminded of the training and the talks that they no doubt had multiple times once drafted regarding respect for women and standards of behaviour.

Were they asleep when Tarryn Thomas got the arse from the league?

You’re making out like they’d have no idea that what they were doing was inappropriate, when the fact they’d made this a private function suggests that they knew exactly how they wanted to behave.

Crass jokes with a blow up doll and repeatedly stalking and threatening a woman are very different beasts. Note that the AFL never stopped Essendon or Geelong actively flirting with Thomas until he reoffended for the third time - so where exactly is the AFLs line here regarding respect for women?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Crass jokes with a blow up doll and repeatedly stalking and threatening a woman are very different beasts. Note that the AFL never stopped Essendon or Geelong actively flirting with Thomas until he reoffended for the third time - so where exactly is the AFLs line here regarding respect for women?

Going off track here, but yes they are different beast, but they’re anchored to the same premise that is there is a much higher standard of behavior now expected of young men earning $500k a year.

The AFL removed Thomas from the comp, they couldn’t be seen to be removing any chance he had of rehabilitation or a chance to show he’d changed. The talk stopped when another allegation surfaced.

 

[play2win]

No they’re not, because they’ll be reminded of the training and the talks that they no doubt had multiple times once drafted regarding respect for women and standards of behaviour.

Were they asleep when Tarryn Thomas got the arse from the league?

You’re making out like they’d have no idea that what they were doing was inappropriate, when the fact they’d made this a private function suggests that they knew exactly how they wanted to behave.

Yeah, but.

We live in a world where comedians, artists, musicians etc. can openly convey sexual obscenities in public, but a group of young men can’t remove their inhibitions and social graces amongst themselves in private. I very much doubt any of these players would behave as such in any other setting, public or private. Having said that ‘context matters’, know very little of the context on this episode and may be way off the mark. Goodnight!

 

[Nugett]

Yeah but why stop there, we also had a bunch of guys put on black face on hey hey it’s Saturday and cause us international embarrassment for being a nation full of racists who didn’t understand what the big deal was… actually Hey Hey routinely made fun of Kamahl and how black he was… I guess it was cool then, it should be cool now…. The world hasn’t changed at all, has it?

Hey Hey was never a favourite of mine, so I very rarely watched it, as it had no appeal to me. Despite the blatant racism that was in the show, I also found it to be quite sexist, especially to Jackie McDonald when she was a co host. Yes times have changed, some for the better, some for the worse. While unfortunately we will never stamp out racism, sexisim, homophobic views ect, due to individual beliefs and opinions and possibly past experience, it has improved to what it once was.

I could never see Eddie Murphy bring out a show like Raw or Delirious again, due to the content that he covers in both shows. It’s out dated, based on the time it came out. It has not aged well. Benny Hill is another comedian whose work would not stand up today. The list goes on. What was funny then, is cringe now. The GWS players, were expressing their sense of humour, as to what they feel is relevant today. There sense of humour may not appeal to other people, myself included, how ever they were at a private function, where their antics should have remained private, unless they broke any laws, or were acting in a way that was harming others, or could potentially harm others. The AFL decision to banning and fining players, is an over reaction, that is almost Orwellian in its approach.

 

[MasterSamurai]

Hey Hey was never a favourite of mine, so I very rarely watched it, as it had no appeal to me. Despite the blatant racism that was in the show, I also found it to be quite sexist, especially to Jackie McDonald when she was a co host. Yes times have changed, some for the better, some for the worse. While unfortunately we will never stamp out racism, sexisim, homophobic views ect, due to individual beliefs and opinions and possibly past experience, it has improved to what it once was.

I could never see Eddie Murphy bring out a show like Raw or Delirious again, due to the content that he covers in both shows. It’s out dated, based on the time it came out. It has not aged well. Benny Hill is another comedian whose work would not stand up today. The list goes on. What was funny then, is cringe now. The GWS players, were expressing their sense of humour, as to what they feel is relevant today. There sense of humour may not appeal to other people, myself included, how ever they were at a private function, where their antics should have remained private, unless they broke any laws, or were acting in a way that was harming others, or could potentially harm others. The AFL decision to banning and fining players, is an over reaction, that is almost Orwellian in its approach.

Delirious is top shelf stand up though, as long as you don't deep dive into the phycology of the audiences for its time. But yea, I agree with you about times and expectations have changed, mostly for the good.

 

[peetoo]

Yeah but why stop there, we also had a bunch of guys put on black face on hey hey it’s Saturday and cause us international embarrassment for being a nation full of racists who didn’t understand what the big deal was… actually Hey Hey routinely made fun of Kamahl and how black he was… I guess it was cool then, it should be cool now…. The world hasn’t changed at all, has it?

The rub with the hey hey skit it was done to contrast the group with the guy playing Michael Jackson who was in whiteface

 

[peetoo]

Going off track here, but yes they are different beast, but they’re anchored to the same premise that is there is a much higher standard of behavior now expected of young men earning $500k a year.

The AFL removed Thomas from the comp, they couldn’t be seen to be removing any chance he had of rehabilitation or a chance to show he’d changed. The talk stopped when another allegation surfaced.

We do have AFLW now which is a huge difference. AFLW is a huge promotional strategy with females and families.

 

[DogDaySonny]

I wonder what the reaction would be if the costume were a priest or nun and the jokes distasteful. The real issue the boys encountered was that they failed to realise today’s sacred lambs are different than yesterday’s, and in fact yesterday’s are most often now open season.

 

[Blackhawk42]

I'm not jumping on you here; I do totally get that it's a mind-shift from 'boys being boys' - and most of us realise that this is just young people being daft and a bit thoughtless, but I think this sentiment is what the sanctions are working towards changing.

It isn't just:

'don't behave in a way around people who you have decided (based on stereotypes of gender, age, sexuality) could be offended by your actions'

it should be:

'don't behave in a way that could cause offence'

If you're self-policing around certain sections of society, then it creates an exclusive environment. The unintentional lesson from this sort of scenario is that this behaviour is totally ok just as long as there aren't any women around. You don't want young men deciding that women spoil all their fun and are nags and they can't be themselves around them etc.

I do understand why it looks a bit over the top on the surface (with what information has been given so far) - but that's probably some of the reasoning.

Thank you for the measured and thoughtful response. It's far better having these discussions when people disagree politely.

I use the word 'disagree' there because whilst I understand your viewpoint, I can't say I necessarily share it entirely.

The main reason why is because ALL social groups practice some form of 'exclusion' based on their interests, age, gender etc etc.

I've heard some stories from girls footy and netball trips that put a lot of the blokes stuff to shame.
When those stories are told to other females who don't play sport and partake in those similar team bonding exercises, it's met with the same response as I'm sure some have had in relation to the GWS players and the blow-up doll (as one example).

So in this scenario, the exclusion isn't limited to 'boys will be boys', highlighting problems surrounding their treatment of women.
Instead it's the women themselves letting loose in their own way, within their own group and breaking down their own barriers of indecent behaviour. But it's amongst themselves. And that's the important part.

 

[rei154]

The theme of their event was "Troubled couples".
Do people not realise that P-Diddy is a pedophile rapist?
Players miming Diddy with a sex doll are effectively joking about raping kids lol.
He has also had footage of him beating his partners and women leaked all over the place.
Not to the same extent, but clearly there was a theme with someone dressing up as J Giddy (cleared of his wrong doing I believe).
The people involved in these skits should absolutely cop a wack, there is absolutely no place for that kind of stuff in society, regardless of in private or not imo.

 

[Sixpence]

Delirious is top shelf stand up though, as long as you don't deep dive into the phycology of the audiences for its time. But yea, I agree with you about times and expectations have changed, mostly for the good.

And then he had a GI Joe up his ass!

Don't agree that it hasn't ages well, nor that you couldn't do that today. It's no different from what Dave Chappelle or Jimmy Carr come out with. His skit about AIDS maybe, but our understanding of that has significantly changed since the 80s.