No Oppo Supporters General AFL discussion and other club news

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TylerDurden said:


But Clarko got a fine. Doesn't add up.
Click to expand...

I am impressed by Finlayson's accountability, it's the bare minimum, but is seldom done.

That being said, I think 3 weeks is far too small of a punishment. If the AFL really thinks there is no place for this in our game, in my opinion, there should be a longer suspension. 3 weeks is nothing in the context of the season. That word is so degrading, dehumanising, and hurtful and I'm disappointed that the AFL has not taken a bit of a firmer stand.
 
Last edited:

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Our midfield trio of Worple Nash and Newcombe is ranked 6th best in the league according to Champion data.

SydneyIsaac Heeney, Chad Warner, Errol Gulden19.0
Port AdelaideZak Butters, Connor Rozee, Jason Horne-Francis17.7
Western BulldogsMarcus Bontempelli, Adam Treloar, Tom Liberatore17.2
Greater Western SydneyStephen Coniglio, Tom Green, Josh Kelly16.3
MelbourneJack Viney, Clayton Oliver, Christian Petracca15.6
HawthornJai Newcombe, Conor Nash, James Worpel14.6
Gold CoastNoah Anderson, Matt Rowell, Touk Miller14.5
North MelbourneLuke Davies-Uniacke, Tom Powell, George Wardlaw14.5
CarltonGeorge Hewett, Patrick Cripps, Adam Cerra14.2
FremantleCaleb Serong, Hayden Young, Andrew Brayshaw14.2
EssendonZach Merrett, Archie Perkins, Will Setterfield13.9
BrisbaneJosh Dunkley, Lachie Neale, Hugh McCluggage13.6
West CoastTim Kelly, Elliot Yeo, Harley Reid13.3
AdelaideJordan Dawson, Matt Crouch, Rory Laird12.3
RichmondTim Taranto, Thomson Dow, Shai Bolton12.0
St KildaJack Steele, Seb Ross, Marcus Windhager11.6
CollingwoodJordan De Goey, Nick Daicos, Scott Pendlebury11.4
GeelongPatrick Dangerfield, Jhye Clark, Tanner Bruhn9.4
 
I'm not going to call it woke or complain about snowflakes but I just can't really work myself up to care about someone calling someone else a homophobic slur, particularly if the person on the receiving end doesn't even identify as gay. These things should be handled behind closed doors, the public statement and broadcasted punishment feeds into a broader public debate that does more harm for the cause than good.
 
KermitJagger said:
I'm not going to call it woke or complain about snowflakes but I just can't really work myself up to care about someone calling someone else a homophobic slur, particularly if the person on the receiving end doesn't even identify as gay. These things should be handled behind closed doors, the public statement and broadcasted punishment feeds into a broader public debate that does more harm for the cause than good.
Click to expand...
Are we sure this is true though? Figured it might be the reason why the individual's name has been withheld.
 
HawthornHawk said:
Are we sure this is true though? Figured it might be the reason why the individual's name has been withheld.
Click to expand...
Maybe it's an assumption on my part but generally when people use that word they're doing it flippantly, not pointedly. Could be wrong.
 
KermitJagger said:
I'm not going to call it woke or complain about snowflakes but I just can't really work myself up to care about someone calling someone else a homophobic slur, particularly if the person on the receiving end doesn't even identify as gay. These things should be handled behind closed doors, the public statement and broadcasted punishment feeds into a broader public debate that does more harm for the cause than good.
Click to expand...
I don't disagree on your last statement regarding doing more harm than good re: the punishment, but I'm going to piggy-back your comment to go on a bit of a rant.
This isn't meant as an attack on you, Kermit, but this is how I feel regarding the vibe of what you've said, and towards society as a whole regarding this issue.

I'm a late 20s straight guy who grew up in a time period where using homophobic slurs was the norm and was accepted. In a lot of ways I was the CoD stereotype; dropping F-slurs whenever something didn't go my way, calling things I didn't like gay and I was involved in an incredibly homophobic soccer club for the majority of my teenage sporting days.

These days I work in schools in the mental health space and one of the main things that I deal with is young members of the LGBTQIA+ who live in highly conservative spaces/family units. One of the biggest issues facing young people who are questioning their sexuality is the acceptance of casualised homophobia. In school spaces (especially in the outer suburbs where I work) you can't go through a day/period where you won't hear a kid use a slur casually, be it to describe one of their mates as a joke, or to express how much they dislike the classwork.
Though these kids don't necessarily mean it in a homophobic way in that space or in that instance, their use of that language has a massive impact on the kids that it might/does relate to as it helps to instill a sense of not feeling welcome or accepted in that environment.
This isn't a small matter, this is a situation that causes significant mental distress for a population of people who are already at risk due to societal standards re: acceptance of LGBTQIA+ people.
The incidence rate of suicidal ideation, depression, self-harm, chronic anxiety and dysphoria is increasingly high in members of the LGBTQIA+ because of how normalised the language of hate towards them is.
Just last night I heard a group of teenagers on the train openly joking about their mate being an F-slur, about him wanting to suck dick and about how gross he is. To them, they're just teens joking with their mates, but for people on the train it was something that made people visibly uncomfortable.
The only reason why we have situations like that and language like that is because people try to normalise and accept it as part of the day to day lexicon of society.
The same people who say that are the same people who get frustrated with the "woke" ideology of acceptance and inclusion, as well as the promotion of safe places for LGBTQIA+ people.

People want to know why this is such an important issue and in my opinion one that the AFL have ****ed up here? It's because it teaches kids that the language is more ok than racism. It teaches kids that it's okay to punch down to these communities because the penalty for doing so isn't as bad as if you went after someone's skin colour. It tells young queer people that their issue and their struggle isn't significant and it pushes them further and further away from accepting themselves.

I understand that currently gay slurs are "more accepted" in todays society than racial ones. Because there is still a significant percentage of our population who don't acknowledge or don't understand the struggle of being a member of the LGBTQIA+ in todays society. But this was the perfect chance for one of the most influential organisations in Australia to make a genuine stand against division, to set a standard and to show young footballers (typically a population that uses homophobic language casually) that it isn't acceptable and it isn't okay.
What the AFL has said here is if you apologise straight away, you can target the LGBTQIA+ and you won't cop it as bad as if you target someone who's skin is different than yours.

It's ****ing exhausting supporting these kids because almost everything in society is against them. I'm ****ing sick of it. I'm sick of dealing with the fallout of these kinds of incidences. Of young kids coming to me and saying "dad said I'm weak like a p**f" or "Dad called his boss a F-slur for some reason" then watching the tears form in their eyes as they then justify it with "but that's okay because he's old" or "but that's okay because everyone does it".
It's disgusting and it causes so much harm because people are too piss weak to change their language to support someone who needs it more than they can every express.
If I can change my ways, if my family can change their ways, don't ****ing tell me that it's okay for people to not at least try.

Again, Kermit, this wasn't a rant at you directly, I'm just ****ing furious with this.
The future generations of Australia deserve better.
 
grumbleguts said:
Our midfield trio of Worple Nash and Newcombe is ranked 6th best in the league according to Champion data.

SydneyIsaac Heeney, Chad Warner, Errol Gulden19.0
Port AdelaideZak Butters, Connor Rozee, Jason Horne-Francis17.7
Western BulldogsMarcus Bontempelli, Adam Treloar, Tom Liberatore17.2
Greater Western SydneyStephen Coniglio, Tom Green, Josh Kelly16.3
MelbourneJack Viney, Clayton Oliver, Christian Petracca15.6
HawthornJai Newcombe, Conor Nash, James Worpel14.6
Gold CoastNoah Anderson, Matt Rowell, Touk Miller14.5
North MelbourneLuke Davies-Uniacke, Tom Powell, George Wardlaw14.5
CarltonGeorge Hewett, Patrick Cripps, Adam Cerra14.2
FremantleCaleb Serong, Hayden Young, Andrew Brayshaw14.2
EssendonZach Merrett, Archie Perkins, Will Setterfield13.9
BrisbaneJosh Dunkley, Lachie Neale, Hugh McCluggage13.6
West CoastTim Kelly, Elliot Yeo, Harley Reid13.3
AdelaideJordan Dawson, Matt Crouch, Rory Laird12.3
RichmondTim Taranto, Thomson Dow, Shai Bolton12.0
St KildaJack Steele, Seb Ross, Marcus Windhager11.6
CollingwoodJordan De Goey, Nick Daicos, Scott Pendlebury11.4
GeelongPatrick Dangerfield, Jhye Clark, Tanner Bruhn9.4
Click to expand...

Sydney - almost completely replace centre square 2022 GF team hickey Parker row bottom and mills but still be the most effective midfield 2 years later. Wow
 
rei154 said:
I don't disagree on your last statement regarding doing more harm than good re: the punishment, but I'm going to piggy-back your comment to go on a bit of a rant.
This isn't meant as an attack on you, Kermit, but this is how I feel regarding the vibe of what you've said, and towards society as a whole regarding this issue.

I'm a late 20s straight guy who grew up in a time period where using homophobic slurs was the norm and was accepted. In a lot of ways I was the CoD stereotype; dropping F-slurs whenever something didn't go my way, calling things I didn't like gay and I was involved in an incredibly homophobic soccer club for the majority of my teenage sporting days.

These days I work in schools in the mental health space and one of the main things that I deal with is young members of the LGBTQIA+ who live in highly conservative spaces/family units. One of the biggest issues facing young people who are questioning their sexuality is the acceptance of casualised homophobia. In school spaces (especially in the outer suburbs where I work) you can't go through a day/period where you won't hear a kid use a slur casually, be it to describe one of their mates as a joke, or to express how much they dislike the classwork.
Though these kids don't necessarily mean it in a homophobic way in that space or in that instance, their use of that language has a massive impact on the kids that it might/does relate to as it helps to instill a sense of not feeling welcome or accepted in that environment.
This isn't a small matter, this is a situation that causes significant mental distress for a population of people who are already at risk due to societal standards re: acceptance of LGBTQIA+ people.
The incidence rate of suicidal ideation, depression, self-harm, chronic anxiety and dysphoria is increasingly high in members of the LGBTQIA+ because of how normalised the language of hate towards them is.
Just last night I heard a group of teenagers on the train openly joking about their mate being an F-slur, about him wanting to suck dick and about how gross he is. To them, they're just teens joking with their mates, but for people on the train it was something that made people visibly uncomfortable.
The only reason why we have situations like that and language like that is because people try to normalise and accept it as part of the day to day lexicon of society.
The same people who say that are the same people who get frustrated with the "woke" ideology of acceptance and inclusion, as well as the promotion of safe places for LGBTQIA+ people.

People want to know why this is such an important issue and in my opinion one that the AFL have ****ed up here? It's because it teaches kids that the language is more ok than racism. It teaches kids that it's okay to punch down to these communities because the penalty for doing so isn't as bad as if you went after someone's skin colour. It tells young queer people that their issue and their struggle isn't significant and it pushes them further and further away from accepting themselves.

I understand that currently gay slurs are "more accepted" in todays society than racial ones. Because there is still a significant percentage of our population who don't acknowledge or don't understand the struggle of being a member of the LGBTQIA+ in todays society. But this was the perfect chance for one of the most influential organisations in Australia to make a genuine stand against division, to set a standard and to show young footballers (typically a population that uses homophobic language casually) that it isn't acceptable and it isn't okay.
What the AFL has said here is if you apologise straight away, you can target the LGBTQIA+ and you won't cop it as bad as if you target someone who's skin is different than yours.

It's ******* exhausting supporting these kids because almost everything in society is against them. I'm ******* sick of it. I'm sick of dealing with the fallout of these kinds of incidences. Of young kids coming to me and saying "dad said I'm weak like a p**f" or "Dad called his boss a F-slur for some reason" then watching the tears form in their eyes as they then justify it with "but that's okay because he's old" or "but that's okay because everyone does it".
It's disgusting and it causes so much harm because people are too piss weak to change their language to support someone who needs it more than they can every express.
If I can change my ways, if my family can change their ways, don't ******* tell me that it's okay for people to not at least try.

Again, Kermit, this wasn't a rant at you directly, I'm just ******* furious with this.
The future generations of Australia deserve better.
Click to expand...

Just to add, a particular casual name called once or twice does not bother let’s use the name ‘ white trash’ as an example. It’s doesn’t fit your normal downward insult cos the person it’s aimed at is not particularly bothered and realises it’s not institutionalise oppression.
Put if it’s used by many people, day after day, it does have an effect mentally, and you don’t need to be in an oppressed minority to feel it. Can only imagine it’s far worse with ‘true’ racist or separatist overtones.

This is not an ‘all lives matter’ type thing, just highlighting that an often repeated thing has an effect too
 
peetoo said:
Sydney - almost completely replace centre square 2022 GF team hickey Parker row bottom and mills but still be the most effective midfield 2 years later. Wow
Click to expand...
Yet - Parker and Mills are injured and Rowbottom is 4th banana now.

When Parker and Mills return, they will be even harder to knock over.
 

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MasterSamurai said:
I'm surprised at our midfield ranking, considering they haven't really clicked yet.
Click to expand...
Assuming Nash is our lowest rated of the 3, I wonder how much it improves with the inclusion of Day.
 
peetoo said:
Sydney - almost completely replace centre square 2022 GF team hickey Parker row bottom and mills but still be the most effective midfield 2 years later. Wow
Click to expand...

Heeney is finally living up to his potential as a midfielder now.

They have an embarrassment of riches - Heeney, Gulden, Warner, Mills, Parker and Rowbottom.
 
peetoo said:
Giulden locked away for 10. Out of Tassie reach?
Click to expand...
He's a Maroubra boy. Unlikely he'll ever move from the eastern suburbs of Sydney, let alone out of the state.
 
Those who want a Hawthorn badge added to their profile better jump into the survovor game shortly. We're creaming them at the moment.
 
rei154 said:
I don't disagree on your last statement regarding doing more harm than good re: the punishment, but I'm going to piggy-back your comment to go on a bit of a rant.
This isn't meant as an attack on you, Kermit, but this is how I feel regarding the vibe of what you've said, and towards society as a whole regarding this issue.

I'm a late 20s straight guy who grew up in a time period where using homophobic slurs was the norm and was accepted. In a lot of ways I was the CoD stereotype; dropping F-slurs whenever something didn't go my way, calling things I didn't like gay and I was involved in an incredibly homophobic soccer club for the majority of my teenage sporting days.

These days I work in schools in the mental health space and one of the main things that I deal with is young members of the LGBTQIA+ who live in highly conservative spaces/family units. One of the biggest issues facing young people who are questioning their sexuality is the acceptance of casualised homophobia. In school spaces (especially in the outer suburbs where I work) you can't go through a day/period where you won't hear a kid use a slur casually, be it to describe one of their mates as a joke, or to express how much they dislike the classwork.
Though these kids don't necessarily mean it in a homophobic way in that space or in that instance, their use of that language has a massive impact on the kids that it might/does relate to as it helps to instill a sense of not feeling welcome or accepted in that environment.
This isn't a small matter, this is a situation that causes significant mental distress for a population of people who are already at risk due to societal standards re: acceptance of LGBTQIA+ people.
The incidence rate of suicidal ideation, depression, self-harm, chronic anxiety and dysphoria is increasingly high in members of the LGBTQIA+ because of how normalised the language of hate towards them is.
Just last night I heard a group of teenagers on the train openly joking about their mate being an F-slur, about him wanting to suck dick and about how gross he is. To them, they're just teens joking with their mates, but for people on the train it was something that made people visibly uncomfortable.
The only reason why we have situations like that and language like that is because people try to normalise and accept it as part of the day to day lexicon of society.
The same people who say that are the same people who get frustrated with the "woke" ideology of acceptance and inclusion, as well as the promotion of safe places for LGBTQIA+ people.

People want to know why this is such an important issue and in my opinion one that the AFL have ****ed up here? It's because it teaches kids that the language is more ok than racism. It teaches kids that it's okay to punch down to these communities because the penalty for doing so isn't as bad as if you went after someone's skin colour. It tells young queer people that their issue and their struggle isn't significant and it pushes them further and further away from accepting themselves.

I understand that currently gay slurs are "more accepted" in todays society than racial ones. Because there is still a significant percentage of our population who don't acknowledge or don't understand the struggle of being a member of the LGBTQIA+ in todays society. But this was the perfect chance for one of the most influential organisations in Australia to make a genuine stand against division, to set a standard and to show young footballers (typically a population that uses homophobic language casually) that it isn't acceptable and it isn't okay.
What the AFL has said here is if you apologise straight away, you can target the LGBTQIA+ and you won't cop it as bad as if you target someone who's skin is different than yours.

It's ******* exhausting supporting these kids because almost everything in society is against them. I'm ******* sick of it. I'm sick of dealing with the fallout of these kinds of incidences. Of young kids coming to me and saying "dad said I'm weak like a p**f" or "Dad called his boss a F-slur for some reason" then watching the tears form in their eyes as they then justify it with "but that's okay because he's old" or "but that's okay because everyone does it".
It's disgusting and it causes so much harm because people are too piss weak to change their language to support someone who needs it more than they can every express.
If I can change my ways, if my family can change their ways, don't ******* tell me that it's okay for people to not at least try.

Again, Kermit, this wasn't a rant at you directly, I'm just ******* furious with this.
The future generations of Australia deserve better.
Click to expand...
Well said, and thanks for your work.

I won't go into detail, but your efforts, and those in similar positions have affected me personally, as I have a family member who tried to take their own life due to feeling like they didn't fit in when coming to terms with their sexuality in a rural town.
It's shit that kids have to still traverse this sort of thing in certain sectors of society.
 
KermitJagger said:
I'm not going to call it woke or complain about snowflakes but I just can't really work myself up to care about someone calling someone else a homophobic slur, particularly if the person on the receiving end doesn't even identify as gay. These things should be handled behind closed doors, the public statement and broadcasted punishment feeds into a broader public debate that does more harm for the cause than good.
Click to expand...
I don't think it does more harm than good. I think it does a lot of good in the long run.

A slur is a slur. It doesn't need to be thrown directly at a person with that characteristic for it to cause harm.

For example, I don't think the AFL would say it was acceptable for a player to call all of the white opposition players [insert racial slur here] and then say to any non-white player who was also on the field that it wasn't directed at them so it doesn't count.
It adds up to a hostile environment - whether they're a player, work for the club, a relative of someone associated to the club, or a fan of the club.

There are two groups of people using these sorts of words. The first group is actively hateful and bigoted.

People who are actively hateful and bigoted are unlikely to change without outside influence. If wider society is accepting, a few of the people in this group will reconsider the values they hold. But yes, fair go, many will remain hateful and bigoted.

But the second group of people are mostly just thoughtless - not actively horrible or harmful, not actively bigoted. They're using words that their social group uses and they haven't thought through the wider implications of what they're saying; most of them would be mortified if they realised the hurt and harm their words can cause to others.

By bringing this attention to the public, sure, the people who are actively hateful and bigoted will complain about woke snowflakes and how they should have the right to use any slur they like, regardless of its impact on other people around them, sticks and stones and all that.

But the group who are merely being thoughtless - it gives them chance to think about what's being said; to hear how it's hurtful and damaging and what the consequences are. I guarantee that most of the people in this group are not looking to hurt other people - they're not even thinking about what they're saying. Hearing the AFL say that it's harmful and unacceptable will do more to convince them to desist than a queer advocacy group making the same statement.
 
It wasn’t a long enough suspension.
And I blame the AFL tiptoeing around Clarkson.

Words are powerful
He knew what he was doing and nothing will convince me otherwise. If like it has been mentioned it occurred “in the heat of the battle” - we would hear slurs far more often
 
Last edited:
Off The Couch said:
It wasn’t a long enough suspension.
And I blame the on the AFL tiptoeing around Clarkson.

Words are powerful
He knew what he was doing and nothing will convince me others. If like it has been mentioned it occurred “in the heat of the battle” - we would hear slurs far more often
Click to expand...
Interesting from Slobbo tonight, he put it on the record that Gil told him off the record that players often go through mediation for being racially abused in-game.

It gets sorted out without anyone even being aware.
 

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