Opinion Get Clarko to The Hangar - 5 year deal done says Heppellfreak (post #334) - now with poll

Clarkson? (Choose all that apply)

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Would be quite the experiment if it happened! 😅

Previous Clarkson EFC correspondence
  • Line in the sand day
  • Fronting Lloydy in the carpark
  • Calling for our expulsion during the supplements saga
  • Calling for Hird to serve an accreditation
  • Using Hird's txt messages as a spur on his team.
Personally I'm all for Ben remaining in the job as long as our recruiting, development and effective gameplan is on track, but tbh that's still a bit of an unknown in reality with some of the administration/coterie/jacket wearing brigade we have.

If Clarkson can drive those key points home better we'd be silly to not atleast entertain the idea...
 
fairbump_playon said:
Rutten would be so stiff to get dumped.

Probably the roughest sacking since Ratten with Carlton. Probably rougher.

Rotten.
Click to expand...

Huge call. Didn’t Ratten get sacked after the Blues finished 4th or something? Or at least got a fair way through in the finals?

At close to full strength we lost to West Coast a week ago and are 16th on the ladder.
 

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bombreys said:
Huge call. Didn’t Ratten get sacked after the Blues finished 4th or something? Or at least got a fair way through in the finals?

At close to full strength we lost to West Coast a week ago and are 16th on the ladder.
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West Coast weren’t far off full strength, and averaged about 2 seasons more experience per player.

Us losing to them is not a surprise.
 
owen87 said:
West Coast weren’t far off full strength, and averaged about 2 seasons more experience per player.

Us losing to them is not a surprise.
Click to expand...

Okay, but if it’s ‘not a surprise’ we lost to a 1-win team, that speaks for itself.

Comparing Rutten (coaching a 16th placed team, who just lost to the 17th team) to Ratten (top 4 side winning finals) being sacked is a mammoth stretch.
 
Bombermania said:
After four years, Brendan Major only had six of his original playing list and Carlton turned over most of its list in a short period of time.

I'm not saying Essendon has to be that aggressive with its list management however would the Essendon FC be willing in four years time to only have six players from its current men's list. How serious is the club about its rebuild, then its up to Rutten and Clarko, if he is really interested, to outline to the club a clear strategy and this is why I am on the fence over Rutten versus Clarko due to this club's problems extending beyond the coaches box.
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What about now? We have 17 players from 2018's list still there. By 2024 we probably lose at least 5 of those (Heppell, Hurley, Ham, Francis, Stewart). We've had a big list turnover over the last few years. Brendan Major's list has been turned over but it's a 32 player list as opposed to 44, so to put it into context the AFL list has turned over 60% or thereabouts and our VFLW list has been turned over about 75% or thereabouts.
 
bombreys said:
Okay, but if it’s ‘not a surprise’ we lost to a 1-win team, that speaks for itself.

Comparing Rutten (coaching a 16th placed team, who just lost to the 17th team) to Ratten (top 4 side winning finals) being sacked is a mammoth stretch.
Click to expand...
They are at different stages of their tenure but it’s so early for Truck. Not saying he has achieved what Ratten did - just that he would be very unlucky to be turfed.

He overachieved for a year and yes then had a crap half year. Since the bye he has beaten two top 8 sides and the players are still playing for him.

As one poster said he would need to lose to north and get a couple of big beltings to deserve to be sacked.

I’m not saying I’m yet convinced he is the man but I think it’s impossible to be sure he isn’t.
 
eth-dog said:
What about now? We have 17 players from 2018's list still there. By 2024 we probably lose at least 5 of those (Heppell, Hurley, Ham, Francis, Stewart). We've had a big list turnover over the last few years. Brendan Major's list has been turned over but it's a 32 player list as opposed to 44, so to put it into context the AFL list has turned over 60% or thereabouts and our VFLW list has been turned over about 75% or thereabouts.
Click to expand...

Since 2018, the club seems to have been more proactive with its list management and now has a core group of good young players to build a strong side around and that raises the question of what does the club really need. If the Essendon list was fully fit and firing then its a bottom half of the eight side, just the inclusion of Jones made a difference to how the forward-line has been functioning.
 
Schnitzengruben said:
Clarko wants to come back and coach. There's no ifs and buts about it.
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But for how long will he be driven? 3 years? 4 years? Will he be Woosha/Malthouse/Lyon/Thompson level cooked? Will Clarkson really be that 10-15 year coach for us?

It's just taking an unnecessary risk with only the immediate future in mind. He can go to GWS who are closer to a premiership. We need stability more than anything right now. If Clarkson coaches next year, then that will be Merrett's 5th coach. What a joke. Then it's very possible that Clarkson burns out and Merrett will have a 6th coach by the end of his career. I'm sick of this revolving door of coaches and I'm sure the players are as well.

The only time I'm willing to look at another coach is if there are clear signs Rutten has lost the playing group. There's no sign to suggest he has so why look elsewhere? Especially for a coach that may well be cooked in 3-4 years.
 
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JayJ20 said:
But for how long will he be driven? 3 years? 4 years? Will he be Woosha/Malthouse/Lyon/Thompson level cooked? Will Clarkson really be that 10-15 year coach for us?

It's just taking an unnecessary risk with only the immediate future in mind. He can go to GWS who are closer to a premiership. We need stability more than anything right now. If Clarkson coaches next year, then that will be Merrett's 5th coach. What a joke. Then it's very possible that Clarkson burns out and Merrett will have a 6th coach by the end of his career. I'm sick of this revolving door of coaches and I'm sure the players are as well.

The only time I'm willing to look at another coach is if there are clear signs Rutten has lost the playing group. There's no sign to suggest he has so why look elsewhere? Especially for a coach that may well be cooked in 3-4 years.
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Nobody knows how long they will be driven - I'm not sure of what answer you are possibly expecting there. Who is to say Rutten will be driven for the next 5 years? 6 years? What about 7? You're posing questions which are purely hypothetical and can be asked about any senior coach. Clarko will be cooked in 3 years....turn it up.

Clarko taking up any senior coaching role, be it here or GWS would be with success and longevity in mind. You don't have one eye on the exit before you even get the job. He wants to return to coaching. He wants to win. Simple.

Honestly - I don't think GWS are that much closer to a premiership. They have an elite midfield and their depth midfield is probably better than ours too but their list is still full of holes in attack and defence. They have a lot of money tied up in some questionable long term deals too. At least we have flexibility.

Clarko has made it clear that the lure of coaching a big 4 club is real. I could see very much him chomping at the bit to get victories on ANZAC Day, Dreamtime etc in front of massive crowds and ultimately break our finals drought and win a flag. GWS sounds nice in theory but is he interested in playing in front of a graveyard every week? A club with no history? Doubt it.

I'm looking at ways to improve our club. We should always be doing that. Clarko is a proven premiership coach who will get the best out of our 22. Rutten is a nice guy, a competent assistant, but in his 3rd year as coach is yet to prove much more than that. I see many apologists come into bat for Truck but few actually present a compelling case for him - merely provide excuses why we've been shithouse.

He has not lost the players. He's too much of a nice guy to lose the players. Now does he inspire enough to get 100% out of them - Does he even know how? That's another question. I know of one coach who can...
 
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Schnitzengruben said:
Nobody knows how long they will be driven - I'm not sure of what answer you are possibly expecting there. Who is to say Rutten will be driven for the next 5 years? 6 years? What about 7? You're posing questions which are purely hypothetical and can be asked about any senior coach. Clarko will be cooked in 3 years....turn it up.

Clarko taking up any senior coaching role, be it here or GWS would be with success and longevity in mind. You don't have one eye on the exit before you even get the job. He wants to return to coaching. He wants to win. Simple.

Honestly - I don't think GWS are that much closer to a premiership. They have an elite midfield and their depth midfield is probably better than ours too but their list is still full of holes in attack and defence. They have a lot of money tied up in some questionable long term deals too. At least we have flexibility.

Clarko has made it clear that the lure of coaching a big 4 club is real. I could see very much him chomping at the bit to get victories on ANZAC Day, Dreamtime etc in front of massive crowds and ultimately break our finals drought and win a flag. GWS sounds nice in theory but is he interested in playing in front of a graveyard every week? A club with no history? Doubt it.

I'm looking at ways to improve our club. We should always be doing that. Clarko is a proven premiership coach who will get the best out of our 22. Rutten is a nice guy, a competent assistant, but in his 3rd year as coach is yet to prove much more than that. I see so many apologists come into bat for Truck but few actually present a compelling case for him - merely provide excuses why we haven't been good enough.

He has not lost the players. Now does he inspire enough to get 100% out of them - Does he even know how? That's another question. I know of one coach who can...
Click to expand...
Rutten is a second year coach. Parish, Wright and Stringer have seen career best forms under Rutten. Even Shiel has returned to his pre-COVID days in recent weeks. Is that not getting the best out of and inspiring players? All of the young players are playing well and buying into Rutten as a coach.

When a coach has coached for 16 years, then these questions need to be asked. How many coaches really coach 26 years? Sheedy? Malthouse? Even that, they probably lasted that long because of how different the previous era was.

Clarkson is a proven premiership coach... with access to start of first round priority picks, generational players and talent distributed among 16 teams. Sorry but how exactly has he proven he can take a list like ours with barely any A-graders to a premiership? Isn't 2015 the last time Clarkson won a final? 7 years ago?

This is the problem with expecting a coach to come and just suddenly change everything without the list. Clarkson couldn't manage a single finals win between the 2015 premiership and the end of 2021. The game has changed a lot since 2015 so nothing is guaranteed. Rutten needs at least until the end of next year to give him a chance to develop the young players we recently recruited. You can't commit to a rebuild and not give the coach a chance to do something with it. If it means missing out on Clarkson, then so be it.
 
JayJ20 said:
Rutten is a second year coach. Parish, Wright and Stringer have seen career best forms under Rutten. Even Shiel has returned to his pre-COVID days in recent weeks. Is that not getting the best out of and inspiring players? All of the young players are playing well and buying into Rutten as a coach.

When a coach has coached for 16 years, then these questions need to be asked. How many coaches really coach 26 years? Sheedy? Malthouse? Even that, they probably lasted that long because of how different the previous era was.

Clarkson is a proven premiership coach... with access to start of first round priority picks, generational players and talent distributed among 16 teams. Sorry but how exactly has he proven he can take a list like ours with barely any A-graders to a premiership? Isn't 2015 the last time Clarkson won a final? 7 years ago?

This is the problem with expecting a coach to come and just suddenly change everything without the list. Clarkson couldn't manage a single finals win between the 2015 premiership and the end of 2021. The game has changed a lot since 2015 so nothing is guaranteed. Rutten needs at least until the end of next year to give him a chance to develop the young players we recently recruited. You can't commit to a rebuild and not give the coach a chance to do something with it. If it means missing out on Clarkson, then so be it.
Click to expand...
Nope. Been over this before. 3rd year head coach, 4th year at the club.

- Parish has had career best form because he's A) Developing as a young player and B) Has the license to play as an unaccountable, one way running accumulator instead of a forward like his earlier years. That persistent playstyle really does not scream "buying in" to me.

- Wright is in great form because he's getting a game for starters and has physically matured. Is it a surprise a 25 y/o KPF is playing better than a 21 y/o version of himself at the Suns who were much worse in previous years?

- Stringer was AA in 2015 - not sure how he's now in career best form?

- Shiel has had a great few weeks despite a largely disastrous couple years. 2017 AA at GWS vs a good clearance mid at Essendon. Hardly call that one a win.

On the flipside we have Merrett who has not improved under truck, Ridley has largely regressed, McGrath's development has stalled, yet to make anything of Aaron Francis and Cox playing poorly and bereft of confidence this year.

Those questions you pose have no real answer. He could go on to coach another 15 years or another 5. Likewise with Truck. Nobody knows the answer. Talking about it almost feels silly. If he wants to come back to coach, I'm assuming he's mature enough as a person and as a decorated coach to know he wants a proper coaching tenure without an eye on the exit from the outset.

Yes, Clarkson had some good picks and was able to nurture those picks into building a quality list. There are plenty of clubs that have had double or triple the picks and have achieved absolutely nothing with them, let alone 4 flags. Clarkson's last final - a measly 2015 premiership. Oh, the horror! He's won 4 flags since the last time we won a final.

Nobody is expecting him to come in and pull some masterstrokes and change everything and all of a sudden we're a 2023 finals threat. What people like myself ARE expecting him to come in and do is address some of our recent failures, like;

  • Why do we consistently show up to seasons underprepared and get bullied in the first half of the year, only to win some brave dead rubbers in the back half?
  • Why is our fitness so consistently poor?
  • Why do we constantly get recurring, lengthy injuries to senior players?
  • Why after 4 years of the same fingerprints on our defensive DNA do we look so poor?
  • Why after insisting we're building towards being bloo kolla do we still look unchanged from our previous schoolboy DNA?

I could go on but you get the idea. I feel a seasoned coach in Clarko is not only better equipped to answer these puzzling questions, but also better equipped in finding solutions and implementing them to get a result. Truck on the other hand has demonstrated he simply does not have the answers let alone the ability to implement solutions.
 
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Take GWS to a flag and you become an inaugural premiership coach. Take Essendon to a flag and you become a legend.

Also this "inherited a dream team" malarky needs to stop. The man won flags in two decades 5 years apart, and then 2 more. Made it to 5 grannies and actual threepeats are not easy to achieve (as Richmond has proven).

Chris Scott was accused as such yet has since proven that he's been able to consistently keep the side in it across a whole decade.

Maybe Clarko isn't for us but at least make a legit case and save the reaching.
 
bombreys said:
Okay, but if it’s ‘not a surprise’ we lost to a 1-win team, that speaks for itself.

Comparing Rutten (coaching a 16th placed team, who just lost to the 17th team) to Ratten (top 4 side winning finals) being sacked is a mammoth stretch.
Click to expand...
the loss to coast was bad they played a good chunk of the season with wafl top-ups, they'd had a nice run of premiership players returning to the side in the lead up to our game
 
Schnitzengruben said:
Nope. Been over this before. 3rd year head coach, 4th year at the club.

- Parish has had career best form because he's A) Developing as a young player and B) Has the license to play as an unaccountable, one way running accumulator instead of a forward like his earlier years. That persistent playstyle really does not scream "buying in" to me.

- Wright is in great form because he's getting a game for starters and has physically matured. Is it a surprise a 25 y/o KPF is playing better than a 21 y/o version of himself at the Suns who were much worse in previous years?

- Stringer was AA in 2015 - not sure how he's now in career best form?

- Shiel has had a great few weeks despite a largely disastrous couple years. 2017 AA at GWS vs a good clearance mid at Essendon. Hardly call that one a win.

On the flipside we have Merrett who has not improved under truck, Ridley has largely regressed, McGrath's development has stalled, yet to make anything of Aaron Francis and Cox playing poorly and bereft of confidence this year.

Those questions you pose have no real answer. He could go on to coach another 15 years or another 5. Likewise with Truck. Nobody knows the answer. Talking about it almost feels silly. If he wants to come back to coach, I'm assuming he's mature enough as a person and as a decorated coach to know he wants a proper coaching tenure without an eye on the exit from the outset.

Yes, Clarkson had some good picks and was able to nurture those picks into building a quality list. There are plenty of clubs that have had double or triple the picks and have achieved absolutely nothing with them, let alone 4 flags. Clarkson's last final - a measly 2015 premiership. Oh, the horror! He's won 4 flags since the last time we won a final.

Nobody is expecting him to come in and pull some masterstrokes and change everything and all of a sudden we're a 2023 finals threat. What people like myself ARE expecting him to come in and do is address some of our recent failures, like;

  • Why do we consistently show up to seasons underprepared and get bullied in the first half of the year, only to win some brave dead rubbers in the back half?
  • Why is our fitness so consistently poor?
  • Why do we constantly get recurring, lengthy injuries to senior players?
  • Why after 4 years of the same fingerprints on our defensive DNA do we look so poor?
  • Why after insisting we're building towards being bloo kolla do we still look unchanged from our previous schoolboy DNA?

I could go on but you get the idea. I feel a seasoned coach in Clarko is not only better equipped to answer these puzzling questions, but also better equipped in finding solutions and implementing them to get a result. Truck on the other hand has demonstrated he simply does not have the answers let alone the ability to implement solutions.
Click to expand...
Yes we have been over it and you have added your own version of reality. He has been coach in his own right for 1 season and 15 games. He did not set out the full game plan in 2020. He was not picking the side exactly how he wanted and Worsfold still had a say. Fact!
Leading into 2020 Truck did not have input into list management. He did not have total input in the game plan . He was just given the reigns on match day.

As for the rest.
The slow starts are a worry . It has been the same under a few coaches.
Truck is not the fitness coach. He does not set the fitness program. Sean Murphy who we have now worked with Clarkson. Is Clarako going to change that ?
Once again Truck is not the medical department.
Why aft 10 years you should be saying that our defense is so poor ? Why did Richmond manage to get it right ? Maybe our blokes do not want to ;)

Why are we not blue collar ? seriously ? you can not just make blue collar out of white collar . It is that simple. You have to bring blue collar players in.

Truck has really had two draft / trade / FA periods.

Has Ridley gone backwards or is he now actually doing what defenders do . Defending !

You could go on but it would be more waffle.

I can see the plus side . Proven good coach that has an aura about him. I am not against it. In fact I can see it may be something we need.
Something Bruno said is worth considering and that is we where not thinking rebuild when the current plan was implemented. So is Truck the man that can do the rebuild and also implement the game plan as a coach that is also learning?

One thing that Clarkson will not have is the level of leadership in the players that he had at the Hawks when he was appointed. We are well short of having a group like Hodge , Mitchell, Lewis, Sewell and Roughy .
It is up to the coaches to sell the plan but you also need the leadership on field to drive it. You can not do one without the other.
 
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Not sold on Clarkson, but not sold on Rutten either.
I don't think it's really fair to say 'player x has had five coaches' etc - you have to take the chaos that was the saga into account, we were just treading water between Hird - Rutten.
Clarkson has stated, for what it's worth, that he wants to build a premiership side no matter how long it takes. And, he wants to stay in Melbourne. Plus, Caro has brought up that we're still a big chance, so lock it in.
 
It'll be Clarko and Dusty to GWS

Dusty and 19 for Taranto, Bruhn and pick #42 IMO would be fair
 
brutus76 said:
It'll be Clarko and Dusty to GWS

Dusty and 19 for Taranto, Bruhn and pick #42 IMO would be fair
Click to expand...
That's incredibly bad for GWS. You do realise Dusty is 31 now, yeah? Right now Taranto is worth more, and Bruhn is worth more than 19 let alone tacking on 42 as well.
 
Yeah let's not turn this into a trade thread, it's already shit enough.
 
bombreys said:
Okay, but if it’s ‘not a surprise’ we lost to a 1-win team, that speaks for itself.
Click to expand...

West Coast are clearly not a 1 win side, the side they were rolling out for a lot of the pre-bye period with covid outs and injuries is drastically different to the one the last few weeks.

Since the bye they're much closer to their actual best side, which is a genuine mature, experienced bunch.

If people want to ignore all context just to have a sook about losing to West Coast, then don't be surprised when you get corrected.

As I said; they averaged 2 seasons more experience per player than Essendon, they should have won.
 
Schnitzengruben said:
Nope. Been over this before. 3rd year head coach, 4th year at the club.

- Parish has had career best form because he's A) Developing as a young player and B) Has the license to play as an unaccountable, one way running accumulator instead of a forward like his earlier years. That persistent playstyle really does not scream "buying in" to me.

- Wright is in great form because he's getting a game for starters and has physically matured. Is it a surprise a 25 y/o KPF is playing better than a 21 y/o version of himself at the Suns who were much worse in previous years?

- Stringer was AA in 2015 - not sure how he's now in career best form?

- Shiel has had a great few weeks despite a largely disastrous couple years. 2017 AA at GWS vs a good clearance mid at Essendon. Hardly call that one a win.

On the flipside we have Merrett who has not improved under truck, Ridley has largely regressed, McGrath's development has stalled, yet to make anything of Aaron Francis and Cox playing poorly and bereft of confidence this year.

Those questions you pose have no real answer. He could go on to coach another 15 years or another 5. Likewise with Truck. Nobody knows the answer. Talking about it almost feels silly. If he wants to come back to coach, I'm assuming he's mature enough as a person and as a decorated coach to know he wants a proper coaching tenure without an eye on the exit from the outset.

Yes, Clarkson had some good picks and was able to nurture those picks into building a quality list. There are plenty of clubs that have had double or triple the picks and have achieved absolutely nothing with them, let alone 4 flags. Clarkson's last final - a measly 2015 premiership. Oh, the horror! He's won 4 flags since the last time we won a final.

Nobody is expecting him to come in and pull some masterstrokes and change everything and all of a sudden we're a 2023 finals threat. What people like myself ARE expecting him to come in and do is address some of our recent failures, like;

  • Why do we consistently show up to seasons underprepared and get bullied in the first half of the year, only to win some brave dead rubbers in the back half?
  • Why is our fitness so consistently poor?
  • Why do we constantly get recurring, lengthy injuries to senior players?
  • Why after 4 years of the same fingerprints on our defensive DNA do we look so poor?
  • Why after insisting we're building towards being bloo kolla do we still look unchanged from our previous schoolboy DNA?

I could go on but you get the idea. I feel a seasoned coach in Clarko is not only better equipped to answer these puzzling questions, but also better equipped in finding solutions and implementing them to get a result. Truck on the other hand has demonstrated he simply does not have the answers let alone the ability to implement solutions.
Click to expand...
Nope. 2nd year head coach who made the finals in his first year in charge. Stop trying to spin the facts for the sake of your argument.
 
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