Opinion Get Clarko to The Hangar - 5 year deal done says Heppellfreak (post #334) - now with poll

[citizen-erased]

this club is painful sometimes
Our KPD this year have been a 194cm battler & rotation of kids and best intercept defender
5/6 of our fwd line from last year missed the start of the season. The best creative player we had retired. The rest have returned in the last 2-3 weeks and we're 2-1 over those games.
Jones is 20 games into his career
McGrath, Parish, Merrett and Stringer all missing patches
Guys like Durham, Perkins, D'Ambrosio, Martin all playing critical roles as first/second year players.

 

[Call Me Cake]

Imagine if Clarko is taken and then we're ass next year. What're we left with?

Buckley?

Ew.

We better make the right decision because blind faith and hindsight can come back to bite us.

 

[bomberlegend2007]

Nice strawman there. I see you've been reading others posts around here.

I think using players natural progression and claiming it as a win for Rutten is disingenuous. Saying they are "buying in" yet continuing to play their own unaccountable football while he lets them do it is simply wrong.

Some guys guys like Laverde have improved with positional changes, but then there are players who have become worse like Cox and Ridley. I'd say this "Rutten effect" has been net middling at best.

You can’t say it’s disingenuous for people to use positive examples of player progression, but then use examples of players regression. Sorta like how it’s disingenuous to say it’s Rutten’s fourth year as coach when it’s his second.

 

[Mootsy]

If you are Caracella you don't need a mentor per se. His resume is god tier. Not that it would hurt to see how Clarko operates, but it just adds so much depth to what Blake C. has seen already, the things he's seen, he had two seasons off a 22 year finals streak as player/assistant coach....

If you are Rutten you had four years at Richmond and one year under Whoosh. He also works alongside, Blake.C, M.Harvey, D Gia , D Tapping..

Is Clarko that ruthless that he needs to come in as an overseeing director. I don't know..

No the problem is the team is young and needs time, our senior players are ordinary and our list management hasn't been good enough for twenty years.

The Voss and Blues argument is not relevant to us. Their squad has better mature players then we do and the list management has improved for them as well over three seasons. No doubt his style is energetic and fresh, but it's not Voss doing it all magically.

The way i see it is, if you are an Essendon coach you are furious at the failures of list management to sustain senior tier players and player fitness development.

One thing i will hang on the coaches. Could you teach the team how to take a strong mark!! Not everything has to be defensive. If you know how to mark a ball properly, it's a guaranteed possession and movement of the ball to your advantage. If you go defensive all the time, it's constant 50/50 contests and turning the ball over. AFL players shouldn't be fumbling around with the ball, it's a professional full-time sport etc..

 

[Schnitzengruben]

You can’t say it’s disingenuous for people to use positive examples of player progression, but then use examples of players regression. Sorta like how it’s disingenuous to say it’s Rutten’s fourth year as coach when it’s his second.

I didn't start that topic. Some players have improved, and there are reasons for that. Some have regressed, and there are reasons for that. To just highlight those who have improved as a feather in the coaches cap without mentioning those who haven't is indeed disingenuous. Players should be improving all the time as they develop into mature bodies and accumulate AFL experience. That's a given.

Please read carefully - it's his third year as coach, fourth year at the club. I don't suppose that's another strawman...?

 

[bomberlegend2007]

I didn't start that topic. Some players have improved, and there are reasons for that. Some have regressed, and there are reasons for that. To just highlight those who have improved as a feather in the coaches cap without mentioning those who haven't is indeed disingenuous. Players should be improving all the time as they develop into mature bodies and accumulate AFL experience. That's a given.

Please read carefully - it's his third year as coach, fourth year at the club. I don't suppose that's another strawman...?

I’m just addressing your points my man.

 

[ant555]

I didn't start that topic. Some players have improved, and there are reasons for that. Some have regressed, and there are reasons for that. To just highlight those who have improved as a feather in the coaches cap without mentioning those who haven't is indeed disingenuous. Players should be improving all the time as they develop into mature bodies and accumulate AFL experience. That's a given.

Please read carefully - it's his third year as coach, fourth year at the club. I don't suppose that's another strawman...?

Stop posting fake news!

 

[Milanista28]

I'm confident we'll find a way to make the wrong call and I'm at peace with that.

 

[JayJ20]

Imagine if Clarko is taken and then we're ass next year. What're we left with?

Buckley?

Ew.

We better make the right decision because blind faith and hindsight can come back to bite us.

You know what we're left with? An actual process to select a coach instead of head-hunting a big name and expecting things to become better overnight. The way Hardwick, McRae, Longmuir, Fagan, Simpson and Voss were selected. It may actually humble this club for once.

 

[ghostdog]

To be honest, if Rutten fails to improve the system next year and the replacement coach discussion starts then, I would be hoping for some combination of Caracella and Hodge is in the conversation.

 

[Burzum]

Of course the club goes with the worst possible option of the three.

 

[brutus76]

Don Pyke I thought was a great coach but he might be waiting for the Eagles job

 

[ant555]

Imagine if Clarko is taken and then we're ass next year. What're we left with?

Buckley?

Ew.

We better make the right decision because blind faith and hindsight can come back to bite us.

You could say that about any coaching appointment.

 

[ant555]

To be honest, if Rutten fails to improve the system next year and the replacement coach discussion starts then, I would be hoping for some combination of Caracella and Hodge is in the conversation.

There has been rumor's Caracella is part of the problem and the players have had issues with his attack plan. I do not know how accurate they are but I have heard them from a couple of different places. Hodge will not leave Brisbane. His family is well settled there now.

 

[ant555]

Don Pyke I thought was a great coach but he might be waiting for the Eagles job

Pyke would probably make a good director of coaching as well.

 

[foj1]

I can't help but see the similarity between Rutten/Clarkson and Ratten/Malthouse.

Carlton made finals under Ratten and played pretty well with promising young players. They dipped in 2012 (literally just one year after being a kick from a prelim) and sacked him because Malthouse became available. They expected for Malthouse to just take them to another level for no other reason then his achievements and reputation. Set them back as a club another 10 years.

There's no good reason to sack Rutten this year so we shouldn't be hasty. I'd only have entertained Clarkson if we needed a new coach. We wouldn't be talking about a new coach if Clarkson wasn't available.

It could also be mark harvey/ Ross lyon
what concerns me about rutten is his lack of a definable plan
he drones on and I do mean drones on about blue collar team but we do not play this way
i also worry how pathetic he looks when the heat is on. His body language during loses and performances at press conferences are embarrassingly bad.
he even had a bit of tear when they won last week. Like Phil leotardo said after Johnny sac cried at his daughters wedding my estimation of the man just plummeted.
I can wear rutten seeing out his contract but i will really judge him from this off season. If Heppell is retained on the list then I think he is lacking backbone and won’t make it.
remember how ruthless the club was with odonnell Daniher and madden. We won premierships let alone finals in those days.
I think buckley would be a tremendous coach second time around.
listen to last weeks commentary. I thought he sounded a little interested.

 

[ant555]

It could also be mark harvey/ Ross lyon
what concerns me about rutten is his lack of a definable plan
he drones on and I do mean drones on about blue collar team but we do not play this way
i also worry how pathetic he looks when the heat is on. His body language during loses and performances at press conferences are embarrassingly bad.
he even had a bit of tear when they won last week. Like Phil leotardo said after Johnny sac cried at his daughters wedding my estimation of the man just plummeted.
I can wear rutten seeing out his contract but i will really judge him from this off season. If Heppell is retained on the list then I think he is lacking backbone and won’t make it.
remember how ruthless the club was with odonnell Daniher and madden. We won premierships let alone finals in those days.
I think buckley would be a tremendous coach second time around.
listen to last weeks commentary. I thought he sounded a little interested.

Given your years of experience involved at under 18 level I can not really work out how you can trot out the bold line. You of all people would know you can not just ask players to be something that is not in their nature. On top of that the leaders have to show the way and it is not really in our leaders nature. The coach has to have the leaders on the park that can drive the message as well. The fact we do not play a lot of blue collar footy is a list issue more then the coach. The rest I have no issues with but you can not just make players that are not hard edge into hard edge.
Even our players like Laverde or Redman who show no fear attacking the footy show limited interest in getting under opposition skin or doing something proactive when the opposition is targeting one of our players. You can throw the skipper into that boat as well. It is hard to be blue collar if you have a very limited number of blue collar players.
If Truck falls over I would take Buckley. He changed what he was doing massively from 2018 and was really a victim of them loading up for a flag and falling one kick short. His time was done at the Pies but having listened to him a lot of SEN I think he has a lot to offer.

 

[BrunoV]

Take GWS to a flag and you become an inaugural premiership coach. Take Essendon to a flag and you become a legend.

Also this "inherited a dream team" malarky needs to stop. The man won flags in two decades 5 years apart, and then 2 more. Made it to 5 grannies and actual threepeats are not easy to achieve (as Richmond has proven).

Chris Scott was accused as such yet has since proven that he's been able to consistently keep the side in it across a whole decade.

Maybe Clarko isn't for us but at least make a legit case and save the reaching.

Agree with this. Very good post.

Every club needs to finish last for 3 years in a row because you need to draft the champions but then no coach is good because he had champions.

This is part of a solid PR campaign run by the coaches for a decade now. They've done a very good job at buying far too much time and there is very little to suggest the majority are worth their spots).

It probably isn't too far from the truth that most coaches are just waiting out development of players without really doing anything to try to accelerate progress.

Look at Leon Cameron, he could hardly be accused of tactical genius. Dew has burned through a generation of the first round talent which is about 75% of what clubs who embark on aggresive rebuilds want. Suns mature and he's good because he has the players on side (except when there was nothing to show for supposed defensive buy in which pre dates player maturity).

You know what Thompson, Lyon, Hardwick, Scott and Clarkson have in common? They get results instantly. This idea that Hardwick and Thompson got 7 years to win a flag distorts the reality of what they actually did. Actually look at their records they win games quickly.

 

[ant555]

Agree with this. Very good post.

Every club needs to finish last for 3 years in a row because you need to draft the champions but then no coach is good because he had champions.

This is part of a solid PR campaign run by the coaches for a decade now. They've done a very good job at buying far too much time and there is very little to suggest the majority are worth their spots).

It probably isn't too far from the truth that most coaches are just waiting out development of players without really doing anything to try to accelerate progress.

Look at Leon Cameron, he could hardly be accused of tactical genius. Dew has burned through a generation of the first round talent which is about 75% of what clubs who embark on aggresive rebuilds want. Suns mature and he's good because he has the players on side (except when there was nothing to show for supposed defensive buy in which pre dates player maturity).

You know what Thompson, Lyon, Hardwick, Scott and Clarkson have in common? They get results instantly. This idea that Hardwick and Thompson got 7 years to win a flag distorts the reality of what they actually did. Actually look at their records they win games quickly.

Would say they improve sides steadily rather than win quickly. Hardwicke went 5-8-10-15 wins. Clarkson went 5-9-13 wins. Bomber won in his first season but actually went backwards going 12-9-11-7-15 wins and Geelong where not coming of as low a base. Lyon is a different situation again as he took over a side that had come of 16-14-14 wins and won 11 in his first year before bouncing back into finals.

 

[rumply]

 

[Schnitzengruben]

Dunno - $400k difference between the greatest coach of the modern era and one who is "probably ok anyway" doesn't sound like much.

 

[rumply]

Dunno - $400k difference between the greatest coach of the modern era and one who is "probably ok anyway" doesn't sound like much.

$400k they dont have to spend elsewhere though.

 

[Schnitzengruben]

$400k they dont have to spend elsewhere though.

Yeah true but we're doing that right now and look how we're going.

I've long thought that salary is overrated in the AFL tbh. Getting cut in into property deals, IPO's/investments with 12mth CGT reduction, "advisory" roles etc is where the real money is.

 

[rumply]

Yeah true but we're doing that right now and look how we're going.

I've long thought that salary is overrated in the AFL tbh. Getting cut in into property deals, IPO's/investments with 12mth CGT reduction, "advisory" roles etc is where the real money is.

You are probably right but still, Covid hasnt helped the soft cap situation any & it's what clubs are stuck with for now. Clarko may be the answer but finding that sort of money is going to hurt somewhere along the line.

 

[DapperDon]

There has been rumor's Caracella is part of the problem and the players have had issues with his attack plan. I do not know how accurate they are but I have heard them from a couple of different places. Hodge will not leave Brisbane. His family is well settled there now.

I'd say the issues are the players, not the previously successful premiership winning assistant.