Opinion Get Clarko to The Hangar - 5 year deal done says Heppellfreak (post #334) - now with poll

[Schnitzengruben]

Really don't agree with the bolded, first of all the Pies may be 4th on ladder but there is a big gap between them and the best teams in the comp, theyve ridden the momentum of an easy draw and some arsy wins.
Second the early season form showed how poor our list depth is compared to the best. We are so reliant on guys like langford and stringer providing balance to our midfield/forward line.

a - I agree in a sense but ultimately they are a top 4 team according to the ladder. We were praising our win over St Kilda as a top 8 scalp when in reality they're closer to a top 12 side. Likewise our win over Brisbane VFL. Can't have a bob each way.

b - That would be acceptable if it were an anomaly but it has been the case going back 4-5 years. It was a failing under Woosha and is now a failing under Truck. That's why I don't buy the "super duper hard first 3 rounds" or "injuries" (as if we're the only team who has them) for us going 2-10. It's a copout at best. Clearly there are deeper issues.

 

[joey_jo_jo]

a - I agree in a sense but ultimately they are a top 4 team according to the ladder. We were praising our win over St Kilda as a top 8 scalp when in reality they're closer to a top 12 side. Likewise our win over Brisbane VFL. Can't have a bob each way.

b - That would be acceptable if it were an anomaly but it has been the case going back 4-5 years. It was a failing under Woosha and is now a failing under Truck. That's why I don't buy the "super duper hard first 3 rounds" or "injuries" (as if we're the only team who has them) for us going 2-10. It's a copout at best. Clearly there are deeper issues.

I would argue the deeper issue is the list management. Other teams can cover injuries to key players because of list depth, we historically cant.

 

[Zephyr Effekt]

b - That would be acceptable if it were an anomaly but it has been the case going back 4-5 years. It was a failing under Woosha and is now a failing under Truck.

Anything further back then last year has no bearing on everything that's happened since then.

 

[ant555]

Training for those moments happen throughout the pre-season and season itself. Those structures aren't just developed on a whim and conveyed to the 22 in a last second phone call. Clearly our players have not been properly drilled to handle them - we had NFI. That is on the coach.

But it wasn't just that last play. It's everything. For starters - we should have never have been down 38-0 to begin with. Does Truck have an answer why we're such perpetually bad starters? I haven't even heard him address it.

So how does Truck make our players faster so that quick defenders do not burn them off ?

 

[JayJ20]

Ceteris paribus - we win that game with Clarkson as coach. That is the difference between an unproven greenhorn and the best coach of the modern era.

Lol. Clarkson literally lost to Geelong how many times in a row in close games? We beat Hawthorn in exactly the same circumstances with Clarkson as the coach in 2015. It happens to almost all teams.

Also, the modern era is post expansion + rule changes. Footy isn't played like it was when first round priority picks were handed out pretty much every year. Hardwick is the most successful modern day coach and his team had worse losses + a draw in the last 3 weeks. Isn't it interesting how a 3-time premiership coach can still lose close games?

Clarkson cannot make Stringer, Jones and Durham kick those goals to ice the game. Hardwick cannot make Balta and Cumberland take the set shot.
That's more symptomatic of on-field leadership.

 

[citizen-erased]

Lol. Clarkson literally lost to Geelong how many times in a row in close games? We beat Hawthorn in exactly the same circumstances with Clarkson as the coach in 2015. It happens to almost all teams.

Also, the modern era is post expansion + rule changes. Footy isn't played like it was when first round priority picks were handed out pretty much every year. Hardwick is the most successful modern day coach and his team had worse losses + a draw in the last 3 weeks. Isn't it interesting how a 3-time premiership coach can still lose close games?

Clarkson cannot make Stringer, Jones and Durham kick those goals to ice the game. Hardwick cannot make Balta and Cumberland take the set shot.
That's more symptomatic of on-field leadership.

good post.

 

[Call Me Cake]

Lol. Clarkson literally lost to Geelong how many times in a row in close games? We beat Hawthorn in exactly the same circumstances with Clarkson as the coach in 2015. It happens to almost all teams.

Also, the modern era is post expansion + rule changes. Footy isn't played like it was when first round priority picks were handed out pretty much every year. Hardwick is the most successful modern day coach and his team had worse losses + a draw in the last 3 weeks. Isn't it interesting how a 3-time premiership coach can still lose close games?

Clarkson cannot make Stringer, Jones and Durham kick those goals to ice the game. Hardwick cannot make Balta and Cumberland take the set shot.
That's more symptomatic of on-field leadership.

Clarko can teach the players to flood the back in case of a miss with seconds to go well before a season begins, though. Amatuer stuff.

 

[eth-dog]

Clarko can walk on water and then turn said water into wine. He's the bestest coach in the history of the game and if he's hired we're gonna win the next 10 flags with him.

 

[Heppellfreak]

Clarko will be at Essendon next season, done deal. My close mate is close to one of the members of the Essendon board. 5 years to be announced end of the year. Same mate that told me shiel will be at Essendon and saad to carlton prior to happening. Take it how you like.

 

[JayJ20]

Clarko can teach the players to flood the back in case of a miss with seconds to go well before a season begins, though. Amatuer stuff.

Lol it was a two-on-one. It wasn't like Collingwood had numbers inside 50. Blame the players that misread the ball drop and allowed Elliott to take an uncontested mark. Kelly and Langford should have reacted quicker and spoiled the ball.

 

[rumply]

Clarko will be at Essendon next season, done deal. My close mate is close to one of the members of the Essendon board. 5 years to be announced end of the year. Same mate that told me shiel will be at Essendon and saad to carlton prior to happening. Take it how you like.

 

[nipst@r]

Who do we think is a better coach Clarkson or Rutten?

Who gives ess a better chance of success?

Rutten ain't bad there is worse but there is also better available. We need to be ruthless to win a final again sometime soon.

Its like saying would you rather Bont/petracca or parish?

We also keep a lot of players on the list/nice contracts because of loyalty, cultural reasons.

But No final for twenty years, what is the culture missing to be a successful one.

I'm glad we seem to have a nice good culture but unfortunately it's just not a successful one and I don't have any confidence until I see some ruthless hard decisions.

Does it matter, maybe not as I'll support either way and be proud but until I see it I just have no expectation of success. Like a saints or suns fan.

#acceptmediocrity

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Who do we think is a better coach Clarkson or Rutten?

Who gives ess a better chance of success?

Rutten ain't bad there is worse but there is also better available. We need to be ruthless to win a final again sometime soon.

Its like saying would you rather Bont/petracca or parish?

We also keep a lot of players on the list/nice contracts because of loyalty, cultural reasons.

But No final for twenty years, what is the culture missing to be a successful one.

I'm glad we seem to have a nice good culture but unfortunately it's just not a successful one and I don't have any confidence until I see some ruthless hard decisions.

Does it matter, maybe not as I'll support either way and be proud but until I see it I just have no expectation of success. Like a saints or suns fan.

Imagine we finish las 4 games strongly to finish an excellent second half of the year, a number of players showing excellent development. Then club sacks Rutten and assistants. Then in coming years you ask most promising players to be loyal …they’ll scoff at the club

 

[nipst@r]

Lol it was a two-on-one. It wasn't like Collingwood had numbers inside 50. Blame the players that misread the ball drop and allowed Elliott to take an uncontested mark. Kelly and Langford should have reacted quicker and spoiled the ball.

No pressure/contest from a kick out to a inside 50 is pretty bad. Am I right that this was the only contest in the whole passage of play?

As Elliot demonstrated if you are in a contest you are a chance to win it. We weren't even involved in the passage of play until that point. Just pressure from afar. Give any afl player that time, space and run and chances are they will make you play.

 

[The Donners]

Lol it was a two-on-one. It wasn't like Collingwood had numbers inside 50. Blame the players that misread the ball drop and allowed Elliott to take an uncontested mark. Kelly and Langford should have reacted quicker and spoiled the ball.

There was space to target Elliot. You couldn’t possibly say Essendon setup well.

 

[nipst@r]

Imagine we finish las 4 games strongly to finish an excellent second half of the year, a number of players showing excellent development. Then club sacks Rutten and assistants. Then in coming years you ask most promising players to be loyal …they’ll scoff at the club

Do you really think they would scoff at the club if we are more successful?

Opportunity to learn under greatest coach of last few decades is a bigger negotiating chip than Hey but remember when we kept that nice bloke who won some meaningless games a couple of years ago?

I think players understand industry and are driven to succeed as elite athletes more than you give them credit for. I have more respect for ppl who are willing to make the hard decisions particularly in an elite environment.

Maybe I'm wrong and a loyal culture is more important than a successful one.

Maybe I've assumed Success, culture, career growth and learning are much higher on list than loyalty for a elite athlete. Loyalty is a factor but your overstating it, a lot.

 

[Schnitzengruben]

Clarko will be at Essendon next season, done deal. My close mate is close to one of the members of the Essendon board. 5 years to be announced end of the year. Same mate that told me shiel will be at Essendon and saad to carlton prior to happening. Take it how you like.

Just landed?

Imagine we finish las 4 games strongly to finish an excellent second half of the year, a number of players showing excellent development. Then club sacks Rutten and assistants. Then in coming years you ask most promising players to be loyal …they’ll scoff at the club

Oh you mean like 2021? Yeah that did work out well.

 

[nipst@r]

Imagine we finish las 4 games strongly to finish an excellent second half of the year, a number of players showing excellent development. Then club sacks Rutten and assistants. Then in coming years you ask most promising players to be loyal …they’ll scoff at the club

Do you really think they would scoff at the club if we are more successful?

Opportunity to learn under greatest coach of last few decades is a bigger negotiating chip than Hey but remember when we kept that nice bloke who won some meaningless games a couple of years ago?

I think players understand industry and are driven to succeed as elite athletes more than you give them credit for?

Maybe I've assumed Success, culture, career growth and learning are much higher on list than loyalty for a elite athlete. Loyalty is a factor but your overstating it, a lot

People are expecting Chicago Bull's Michael Jordan, but we'd get the Washington Wizards version

Great point. If we have to talk clarko into it stick with Rutten. If he wants us to match other offers stick with Rutten. If he wants to come to ess and on an amount thst will enable successful structure than we have to do it.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Do you really think they would scoff at the club if we are more successful?

Opportunity to learn under greatest coach of last few decades is a bigger negotiating chip than Hey but remember when we kept that nice bloke who won some meaningless games a couple of years ago?

I think players understand industry and are driven to succeed as elite athletes more than you give them credit for. I have more respect for ppl who are willing to make the hard decisions particularly in an elite environment.

Maybe I'm wrong and a loyal culture is more important than a successful one.

Maybe I've assumed Success, culture, career growth and learning are much higher on list than loyalty for a elite athlete. Loyalty is a factor but your overstating it, a lot.

Nah everyone in football wil just remember that we sacked a coach who’s done a good job in his two years at a time of list upheaval. You probably would’ve sacked Bomber back in ‘06 or Hardwick after 2016.

 

[nipst@r]

So how does Truck make our players faster so that quick defenders do not burn them off ?

No point defending Charlie Cameron then. You defend to your strengths, if they are quicker don't let them get out the back. If we are that slow we can't overcome a lack of pace get rid of dodo.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Just landed?

Oh you mean like 2021? Yeah that did work out well.

Last season we beat lowly teams. We’ve beaten four final eight contenders in five weeks and should’ve been five of six. That’s some form and better than last season

 

[nipst@r]

Nah everyone in football wil just remember that we sacked a coach who’s done a good job in his two years at a time of list upheaval. You probably would’ve sacked Bomber back in ‘06 or Hardwick after 2016.

Was clarko available then? I might have I think clarko would have had just as much success at both.

 

[nipst@r]

Last season we beat lowly teams. We’ve beaten four final eight contenders in five weeks and should’ve been five of six. That’s some form and better than last season

Still a failure as a whole though.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Still a failure as a whole though.

Young lists are inconsistent, injuries played a factor. As I’ve said before with injuries and retirements we had players who scored 150 goals between them missing for most of the first half of the year

 

[Schnitzengruben]

Last season we beat lowly teams. We’ve beaten four final eight contenders in five weeks and should’ve been five of six. That’s some form and better than last season

Looking at the ladder currently - we've beaten 9th (who should be 13th lbh), 12th and Brisbane's VFL side. Sydney should have buried us but wasted their chances.

All of which were dead rubber games after we botched our season and started 2-10. Second half of the season, pressure is off and no expectations, team reverts to their capable mean.

2022 was for the most part a copy of 2021. What is the bet 2023 is more of the same?