Gold Coast and GWS has failed

[MelbourneGWS]

Because of sponsorship.

Not arguing that point.

Accor is next door to Giants Stadium.
Also all those in the same city.
Also we are talking 1 game not 3.
SCG would be an away game and no one has said Henson I wouldn’t think.

The relationship with the club and the ACT will continue at least until 2032 - irrespective of your view. The team rightly regards itself as Canberra’s AFL team, and the sold out games n Manuka shows our community’s support for the Giants.

Probably more relevant to the thread in Big Footy on possible team 20 options, but I think NT (if it gets massive federal government $) will be team 20 despite many shortcomings. If Canberra is not Team 20, I expect the existing Giants relationship with ACT will continue post 2032

 

[Canberra Pear]

1. Just as unlikely as the AFL and our financially strapped Government agreeing to a full time Canberra team - from our current 3 annual AFL games (and 2 AFLW games). This in an environment where a Aleague men’s soccer team cannot even get the government funding and sponsorship which would be significantly less than what an AFL team would require

I don't know how I can explain this any clearer.

An A-League team requires fresh funding. A full-time AFL team likely won't need any more ACT funding. Funding for an AFL team is already in the budget, it's just going to the Giants at the moment.

 

[Canberra Pear]

The team rightly regards itself as Canberra’s AFL team, and the sold out games n Manuka shows our community’s support for the Giants.

It shows our support for AFL. Canberrans love AFL, and got similar crowds when North and the Bulldogs played home games here.

 

[Badger17]

The relationship with the club and the ACT will continue at least until 2032 - irrespective of your view. The team rightly regards itself as Canberra’s AFL team, and the sold out games n Manuka shows our community’s support for the Giants.

Probably more relevant to the thread in Big Footy on possible team 20 options, but I think NT (if it gets massive federal government $) will be team 20 despite many shortcomings. If Canberra is not Team 20, I expect the existing Giants relationship with ACT will continue post 2032

Sold out games at Manuka doesn't show anything of the sort.

The relationship between GWS and the ACT government is purely transactional and will only continue for as long as both sides stand to gain from it. As soon as the arrangement becomes inconvenient for either or both parties it'll crumble just like the agreements that the ACT has had with every other team that claimed to be "Canberra's team" at one point or another, and it's only a matter of time before that happens.

GWS never was and never will be Canberra's side and your mantra that they are doesn't change that.

Furthermore, the AFL allowing the GWS deal to jeopardise the ACT's chances of getting our own team would be an unmitigated disaster for the sport in both Canberra/Capital Region and Western Sydney in the long run. The Giants can't be everything to everyone, and both Canberra and Western Sydney are done a disservice by the attempt.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

It shows our support for AFL. Canberrans love AFL, and got similar crowds when North and the Bulldogs played home games here.

That’s your view. North and Bulldogs never got 6800 Canberra members. Giants being Canberra’s AFL team has had many benefits, including the sold out crowds, which was also mentioned in the same article you referenced about Barr’s so called appetite for a change to the status quo.

 

[Badger17]

I don't know how I can explain this any clearer.

An A-League team requires fresh funding. A full-time AFL team likely won't need any more ACT funding. Funding for an AFL team is already in the budget, it's just going to the Giants at the moment.

The failure to launch of the men's A-League side wasn't because of a lack of government funding or sponsorship opportunities, so it's nonsense argument in the first place.

I'll spare the gritty details, but put simply the holdup is because of the added costs and complexity of the APL requiring any consortium to merge with the women's side. It's not only blown out the costs of expanding to Canberra compared to other cities, but also doubled the amount of egos at the negotiating table that have to be satisfied before the deal can be signed off.

It's a shitshow for sure, but money isn't the real issue.

 

[Canberra Pear]

That’s your view. North and Bulldogs never got 6800 Canberra members. Giants being Canberra’s AFL team has had many benefits, including the sold out crowds, which was also mentioned in the same article you referenced about Barr’s so called appetite for a change to the status quo.

Membership culture has vastly changed since then. In 2005, Collingwood only had 27k members. Completely different ballgame.

The default for a Canberra GWS member is still that they're a supporter of another team.

I even overheard at the Hawks game after a Giants fan sat next to a stranger: "Are you actually a Giants fan?" Because the default is that they're not.

 

[Badger17]

That’s your view. North and Bulldogs never got 6800 Canberra members. Giants being Canberra’s AFL team has had many benefits, including the sold out crowds, which was also mentioned in the same article you referenced about Barr’s so called appetite for a change to the status quo.

Buying a membership to a club doesn't necessarily make you a fan of said club. Especially not in cases like this.

Besides GWS membership numbers in Canberra have only really ballooned because becoming a member is the only way to make sure you can get tickets to the games you might want to attend, which wasn't an issue back in the day.

There's no different views about this either, you've just chosen a very strange hill to die on.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

I don't know how I can explain this any clearer.

An A-League team requires fresh funding. A full-time AFL team likely won't need any more ACT funding. Funding for an AFL team is already in the budget, it's just going to the Giants at the moment.

And you think that the $2.85 million transferred will be enough for a team that plays 11 home games in Canberra? And the other codes will not want extra funding or their share of the reallocated funding? The new men’s Aleague side will add to the financially troubled ACT government’s funding demands, as well as sucking sponsorship. There will also be increasing pressure for Barr to contribute more $ to save Canberra United as the current $200k is only enough to save them for the current 24-25 season.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Sold out games at Manuka doesn't show anything of the sort.

The relationship between GWS and the ACT government is purely transactional and will only continue for as long as both sides stand to gain from it. As soon as the arrangement becomes inconvenient for either or both parties it'll crumble just like the agreements that the ACT has had with every other team that claimed to be "Canberra's team" at one point or another, and it's only a matter of time before that happens.

GWS never was and never will be Canberra's side and your mantra that they are doesn't change that.

Spot on. I think the Giants have done pretty well within AFL circles in Canberra, but they barely make a blip outside of AFL circles.

I still remember when the Raiders and Giants made the grand final in the same weekend. Green everywhere. Barely a lick of orange.

A part-time team can't be Canberra's team when the likes of the Raiders, Brumbies, Caps, Cavalry, United etc play full-time.

Furthermore, the AFL allowing the GWS deal to jeopardise the ACT's chances of getting our own team would be an unmitigated disaster for the sport in both Canberra/Capital Region and Western Sydney in the long run. The Giants can't be everything to everyone, and both Canberra and Western Sydney are done a disservice by the attempt.

If we miss the 20th team because of the Giants, I'll definitely be ditching my Giants membership. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

 

[Badger17]

Membership culture has vastly changed since then. In 2005, Collingwood only had 27k members. Completely different ballgame.

The default for a Canberra GWS member is still that they're a supporter of another team.

I even overheard at the Hawks game after a Giants fan sat next to a stranger: "Are you actually a Giants fan?" Because the default is that they're not.

I know about a dozen Giants members and a whole bunch more AFL fans, but I couldn't name a single person who claims to be a Giants fan. Not saying they don't exist, I'm sure they do, but they're an extreme exception, not the rule.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

Sold out games at Manuka doesn't show anything of the sort.

The relationship between GWS and the ACT government is purely transactional and will only continue for as long as both sides stand to gain from it. As soon as the arrangement becomes inconvenient for either or both parties it'll crumble just like the agreements that the ACT has had with every other team that claimed to be "Canberra's team" at one point or another, and it's only a matter of time before that happens.

GWS never was and never will be Canberra's side and your mantra that they are doesn't change that.

Furthermore, the AFL allowing the GWS deal to jeopardise the ACT's chances of getting our own team would be an unmitigated disaster for the sport in both Canberra/Capital Region and Western Sydney in the long run. The Giants can't be everything to everyone, and both Canberra and Western Sydney are done a disservice by the attempt.

And you and Canberra Pear repeating that Giants are not Canberra’s team does not change the fact that they are - the Giants have been explicit about this, and most Canberrans I associate with are happy with the status quo.

The relationship with the Giants and ACT will be by 2032, be a 21 year relationship- more than three times longer than any FIFO matches played by North or Bulldogs.

I am happy with the Giants deal with Canberra, and the ACT government, AFL, the club and the community have benefited from it. This will continue at least to 2032, and may continue after that depending on Team 20 decisions.

 

[Canberra Pear]

I know about a dozen Giants members and a whole bunch more AFL fans, but I couldn't name a single person who claims to be a Giants fan. Not saying they don't exist, I'm sure they do, but they're an extreme exception, not the rule.

I'm the same. I even made a list. It's 58 Canberrans I know in-person whose AFL team I know, and not a single Giants fan.

Again, I'm sure they exist, but they're by no means a dominant force.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

Membership culture has vastly changed since then. In 2005, Collingwood only had 27k members. Completely different ballgame.

The default for a Canberra GWS member is still that they're a supporter of another team.

I even overheard at the Hawks game after a Giants fan sat next to a stranger: "Are you actually a Giants fan?" Because the default is that they're not.

And I think you are extrapolating your experience incorrectly. My kids and their friends are Giants due to the visits by our team and associate Giants with Canberra.

 

[1990crow]

Canberra is the logical place for the 20th team.

Future expansion should be Victorian sides relocating to NT, Newcastle and Sunshine Coast.

I.e. St Kilda and North.

 

[Canberra Pear]

And you think that the $2.85 million transferred will be enough for a team that plays 11 home games in Canberra? And the other codes will not want extra funding or their share of the reallocated funding? The new men’s Aleague side will add to the financially troubled ACT government’s funding demands, as well as sucking sponsorship. There will also be increasing pressure for Barr to contribute more $ to save Canberra United as the current $200k is only enough to save them for the current 24-25 season.

Again. Most AFL teams survive with no government funding. The $2.85m is a massive head start for a Canberra team.

We have a decent population, a very wealthy population, good AFL support, and likely a good stadium deal. We'll probably be more viable than either the Giants or Suns, even without the $2.85m. The $2.85m is a nice sweetener.

 

[Badger17]

And I think you are extrapolating your experience incorrectly. My kids and their friends are Giants due to the visits by our team and associate Giants with Canberra.

All of the kids and their friends were North Melbourne "fans" in 2004.

I wonder what happened to all those fans and members. You don't hear about them anymore. . .

 

[Badger17]

And you and Canberra Pear repeating that Giants are not Canberra’s team does not change the fact that they are - the Giants have been explicit about this, and most Canberrans I associate with are happy with the status quo.

The relationship with the Giants and ACT will be by 2032, be a 21 year relationship- more than three times longer than any FIFO matches played by North or Bulldogs.

I am happy with the Giants deal with Canberra, and the ACT government, AFL, the club and the community have benefited from it. This will continue at least to 2032, and may continue after that depending on Team 20 decisions.

BTW, like you, most of the "Canberrans" you associate with aren't actually Canberran. Simply moving to the city doesn't make you Canberran.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

If we miss the 20th team because of the Giants, I'll definitely be ditching my Giants membership. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Don’t let the door hit you on the way out. I will be a Giants member irrespective of what happens post 2032.

For the thread on the 20th AFL team, but I just don’t think Canberra will be Team 20, with WA3 and NT/NA having better chances due to various reasons (which I don’t necessarily agree with). I think the current situation, supplemented by Victorian teams selling away Giants games to Manuka is the way to go, although I just can’t see at this stage how the finances for this will work.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

All of the kids and their friends were North Melbourne "fans" in 2004.

I wonder what happened to all those fans and members. You don't hear about them anymore. . .

If you don’t understand the difference between North’s relationship with Canberra, and the relationship between Canberra and Giants, then there’s not much point discussing this

 

[Canberra Pear]

Don’t let the door hit you on the way out. I will be a Giants member irrespective of what happens post 2032.

I won't be the only one.

If we get the 20th team though, I'll probably keep the Giants as a third team and buy an interstate membership.

For the thread on the 20th AFL team, but I just don’t think Canberra will be Team 20, with WA3 and NT/NA having better chances due to various reasons (which I don’t necessarily agree with). I think the current situation, supplemented by Victorian teams selling away Giants games to Manuka is the way to go, although I just can’t see at this stage how the finances for this will work.

I think we're a 50/50 chance at getting the team in Canberra.

The NT only makes sense with absolutely massive government commitments, and WA3 adds nothing to the game.

If we don't get the 20th team, I think the biggest contributing factor will be the Giants, and I couldn't continue being a member after that.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

I think we're a 50/50 chance at getting the team in Canberra.

The NT only makes sense with absolutely massive government commitments, and WA3 adds nothing to the game.

In this, I 100% agree with you. Hopefully I am wrong, but I think there will be significant commonwealth $ for NT/NA due to political considerations tied to indigenous issues, and the AFL/ media/ general public will be in favour of NT/NA as team 20. Anyway another thread, another day…

 

[Colonial]

No. And I am a massive Giants fan. Just think that the current strategy, which has not changed since 2011, is clearly not working.

The focus needs to be on Sydney.

1. Play all home games in Sydney. You can play around Easter at Accor, or Hensen, or Blacktown, or SCG.
Accor is too big, but a Pies game might draw 25k, followed by Swans.
Hensen and Blacktown would need further upgrades, and coild only handle 8k - 10k.
SCG would draw the biggest crowds. Some might say it is not in western Sydney, but it is 300km closer to WS than Canberra.

Only way we play at Accor in the near future is a double header with the Swans

2. Redraw the Swans/Giants promotional and academy zones. It is rediculous that some western suburbs like Bankstown are zoned to Swans. Also the inner west which is a strong AFL area, should be aligned with Giants. If the Giants can gather support in the inner west, it will spread westward.

Always up for more

3. Change the name to Western Sydney.

I was all for the Greater in the beginning, something different to the usual, but now would be happy to see us drop Greater. Plus it wouldn’t hurt the song, ive sung it and it still works.

Three easy and meaningful changes that will help to grow the game/Giants west of Central station. Make the changes whilst the Giants are still strong onfield.

100%.

People keep mentioning “the deal” thing as though if the AFL turned around and said “hey you get a full time team instead” I doubt they would mind.

 

[Colonial]

The relationship with the club and the ACT will continue at least until 2032 - irrespective of your view. The team rightly regards itself as Canberra’s AFL team, and the sold out games n Manuka shows our community’s support for the Giants.

Not necessarily.
Sponsorship and I would say it’s more the community’s support of the sport.

 

[catters05]

Spot on. I think the Giants have done pretty well within AFL circles in Canberra, but they barely make a blip outside of AFL circles.

I still remember when the Raiders and Giants made the grand final in the same weekend. Green everywhere. Barely a lick of orange.

A part-time team can't be Canberra's team when the likes of the Raiders, Brumbies, Caps, Cavalry, United etc play full-time.



If we miss the 20th team because of the Giants, I'll definitely be ditching my Giants membership. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

The best growth for footy in NSW/ACT is for a Canberra team and Giants committing all games in West Sydney.

As much as I’d love an NT team, I can’t see it before Canberra.