Game Day Grand Final Matchday Thread

[upnsmoke]

Sidey did get the leon davis

Leon Davis

Age

43

Ht

177cm

Wt

80kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.5

3star

K

10.2

4star

HB

3.3

3star

M

3.1

3star

T

2.8

4star

G

1.2

4star

No current season stats available

D

5.0

1star

K

3.6

2star

HB

1.4

2star

M

1.2

2star

T

0.4

3star

G

0.4

3star

award for worst on ground in the 2018 GF. Dont think he would have made any difference.

Eagles shut him out... But against other teams he is sublime and key.

Sidebottomw would have no doubt helped the team.. His craftiness and poise damages the other team.

 

[Rusty Beam]

We're witnessing one of the best players to ever play AFL in Martin. Doubt we'll ever see a three time Norm Smith Medallist again.

3 x NSM
1 x Brownlow
3 x Premiership

That's a heck of a resume. If the Tigers win again, and Martin gets a fourth premiership, I'd say he passes Lethal as the best players in VFL / AFL history.

Mate that’s ridiculous recency bias.

Do yourself a favour and go have a look at lethals stats. I think people have forgotten just how much of a freak he was.

Never been a player like him, nor will there ever be again.

 

[gouki88]

Mate that’s ridiculous recency bias.

Do yourself a favour and go have a look at lethals stats. I think people have forgotten just how much of a freak he was.

Never been a player like him, nor will there ever be again.

I generally try to do it by era in a sport where the game has changed so much. The VFL of the 1920s was nothing like that of the 60s, which was again nothing like the early AFL, which is nothing like today's game, etc etc.

I think generally doing it by decade is helpful. Every decade there are standouts, but generally there are a couple who are simply unstoppable. This decade has seen GAJ, Pendlebury, Dangerfield, Swan, Selwood, Fyfe, and the like, but for my mind Buddy and Dusty are the two force of nature kind of players.

Lethal, however, is the sole player in my opinion who has a pretty inarguable claim to the greatest of all time throne.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

You've been supporting this club probably for as long as I have and I think you know that we will never make the hard decisions or the right decisions to get to where Richmond is, I don't know what the answer is but the culture of the club needs to change

I think everyone is prepared to make the hard decisions if there is consensus on what the right decisions are. But as you’ll observe here on BigFooty, even amongst a group of Collingwood diehards who all want the same outcome, there is a lot of disagreement on how to get there.

The other confounding aspect is the player’s contracts. You can only be so ruthless when the players have the ability to veto any trade you come up with.

 

[manicpie]

I generally try to do it by era in a sport where the game has changed so much. The VFL of the 1920s was nothing like that of the 60s, which was again nothing like the early AFL, which is nothing like today's game, etc etc.

I think generally doing it by decade is helpful. Every decade there are standouts, but generally there are a couple who are simply unstoppable. This decade has seen GAJ, Pendlebury, Dangerfield, Swan, Selwood, Fyfe, and the like, but for my mind Buddy and Dusty are the two force of nature kind of players.

Lethal, however, is the sole player in my opinion who has a pretty inarguable claim to the greatest of all time throne.

Having grown up seeing Mathews play, he was freak but if he played today it would be a different story. Martin is definately a better player than Mathews, just my opinion and not based on 40 years of media hype, Mathews never won a Brownlow

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Eagles shut him out... But against other teams he is sublime and key.

Sidebottomw would have no doubt helped the team.. His craftiness and poise damages the other team.

If he hadn’t got himself a four week suspension early in the season we might have had a home EF, if not a top four spot.

 

[Chief Ten Beers]

Having grown up seeing Mathews play, he was freak but if he played today it would be a different story. Martin is definately a better player than Mathews, just my opinion and not based on 40 years of media hype, Mathews never won a Brownlow

Because a Brownlow is a definitive yardstick of how good a player is.

Ask Pendlebury....

 

[gouki88]

Having grown up seeing Mathews play, he was freak but if he played today it would be a different story. Martin is definately a better player than Mathews, just my opinion and not based on 40 years of media hype, Mathews never won a Brownlow

Like I've said before, I don't think it's fair nor sensible to make comparisons of a player today to one who was at his peak 43 years ago. It just doesn't really sit right given how much is changed.

Could Dusty have played in the 70s with the significantly lower levels of professionalism (quite literally) and people trying to punch his lights out every week? Could Leigh even manage 10 games a season today with his temper? Pointless questions if you ask me.

Matthews did never win a Brownlow, but neither have Ablett Sr., Carey, Buddy, Ted Whitten, Farmer, and many many more. I'd take those blokes over Priddis, Cooney, Woewodin, Libba, and many more. The Brownlow is a nice accolade, but I hate it being used as the be-all and end-all measure of greatness

 

[Countrypie]

Having grown up seeing Mathews play, he was freak but if he played today it would be a different story. Martin is definately a better player than Mathews, just my opinion and not based on 40 years of media hype, Mathews never won a Brownlow

I fail to see how Brownlow meets any relevant criteria. Its a quaint award steeped in tradition adjudged by people who are trying to officiate the game.
Did Carey win a brownlow? Did GA snr? On the other hand, Dipper, Woewodin and Cooney did.
If I had to have a player play in their era for my life I'd take Lethal. Dusty would certainly be in consideration as would G Ablett snr and possibly Royce hart and Bob Rose.

 

[manicpie]

Like I've said before, I don't think it's fair nor sensible to make comparisons of a player today to one who was at his peak 43 years ago. It just doesn't really sit right given how much is changed.

Could Dusty have played in the 70s with the significantly lower levels of professionalism (quite literally) and people trying to punch his lights out every week? Could Leigh even manage 10 games a season today with his temper? Pointless questions if you ask me.

Matthews did never win a Brownlow, but neither have Ablett Sr., Carey, Buddy, Ted Whitten, Farmer, and many many more. I'd take those blokes over Priddis, Cooney, Woewodin, Libba, and many more. The Brownlow is a nice accolade, but I hate it being used as the be-all and end-all measure of greatness

If dusty played in the 70's he would have won 11 brownlows, most players went through that time with crap fitness, blokes like Jim Jess come from the country and starred, there truly is no comparison. I'm not here to have an argument, it's just a more realistic opinion of the times

 

[manicpie]

I fail to see how Brownlow meets any relevant criteria. Its a quaint award steeped in tradition adjudged by people who are trying to officiate the game.
Did Carey win a brownlow? Did GA snr? On the other hand, Dipper, Woewodin and Cooney did.
If I had to have a player play in their era for my life I'd take Lethal. Dusty would certainly be in consideration as would G Ablett snr and possibly Royce hart and Bob Rose.

I think you might be stil hurting from seeing dusty last night, even without the brownlow as a reference, I think you're just kidding yourself but hey, we all have opinions, mine is different to yours but I think deep down you know I'm right

 

[manicpie]

Because a Brownlow is a definitive yardstick of how good a player is.

Ask Pendlebury....

You're better than that chief, the Brownlow has nothing to do with it, Martin is in a league of his own and if you compare him to Mathews then Dusty is streets ahead

 

[gouki88]

If dusty played in the 70's he would have won 11 brownlows, most players went through that time with crap fitness, blokes like Jim Jess come from the country and starred, there truly is no comparison. I'm not here to have an argument, it's just a more realistic opinion of the times

This attitude is something I just cannot agree with. You can't just cut and paste someone into a different era without accounting for context. Dusty has a team of nutritionists, physios, psychologists and other expert staff catering to him. If Dusty had grown up in the 60s he would have never ever gotten over his conditioning issues, and probably would have had a litany questionable off-field acts.

Your recency bias is really showing, and to act as if Martin is in a league of his own is ridiculous. People said the same about Buddy, about GAJ, about Judd, about Bucks, about Hird, about Carey, going back to the bloody Coventry brothers. Just appreciate greatness, stop making it a pissing contest of who can call someone the GOAT before anyone else.

 

[manicpie]

This attitude is something I just cannot agree with. You can't just cut and paste someone into a different era without accounting for context. Dusty has a team of nutritionists, physios, psychologists and other expert staff catering to him. If Dusty had grown up in the 60s he would have never ever gotten over his conditioning issues, and probably would have had a litany questionable off-field acts.

Your recency bias is really showing, and to act as if Martin is in a league of his own is ridiculous. People said the same about Buddy, about GAJ, about Judd, about Bucks, about Hird, about Carey, going back to the bloody Coventry brothers. Just appreciate greatness, stop making it a pissing contest of who can call someone the GOAT before anyone else.

Let it go man, if it helps then I think you're right.

 

[Chief Ten Beers]

Martin is in a league of his own and if you compare him to Mathews then Dusty is streets ahead

Yeah true what you say - just never liked that argument. Josh Bootsma was a better player than Albert Collier too.
Most modern day players are better than the ones of yesteryear.

Just have to compare players to their own era imo

 

[Horaceg]

Just another one we need to catch up, bugger but at least Geelong didn’t win even though it was my preferred

 

[Doc1763]

If he hadn’t got himself a four week suspension early in the season we might have had a home EF, if not a top four spot.

It would have taken 3 more wins and about 27% of percentasge for us to go past Geelong, who finished 4th. Though with the draw, the 3 wins would have done it.

 

[queensberryrules]

I think everyone is prepared to make the hard decisions if there is consensus on what the right decisions are. But as you’ll observe here on BigFooty, even amongst a group of Collingwood diehards who all want the same outcome, there is a lot of disagreement on how to get there.

The other confounding aspect is the player’s contracts. You can only be so ruthless when the players have the ability to veto any trade you come up with.

Hard decisions are hard because they are not consensus based.

RFC'S success starts at the Board level. Clinical, professional, planned, outcome focused. Contrast Collingwood.

Pretty simple really.

 

[Doc1763]

Yeah true what you say - just never liked that argument. Josh Bootsma was a better player than Albert Collier too.
Most modern day players are better than the ones of yesteryear.

Just have to compare players to their own era imo

That deserves a suspension!!!

 

[Carringbush2010]

You know what, after tonight, the 2018 grand final isn't as bad anymore, cause we at least stopped Richmond from winning 4 premierships in a row.

Sarcasm noted.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Hard decisions are hard because they are not consensus based.

RFC'S success starts at the Board level. Clinical, professional, planned, outcome focused. Contrast Collingwood.

Pretty simple really.

Yeah, nah.

You still need some degree of consensus on which decision to make.

Maybe Buckley wants to trade Treloar to GC for pick #5 and Wright, and some cap relief.

Ned Guy wants to trade Grundy for cap relief and a top 2 pick.

Eddie wants to trade Sidebottom and Pendlebury to get what we can while they still have some currency.

Derek Hine doesn’t rate the draft pool and wants to sell the farm to get Jeremy Cameron

5

Jeremy Cameron

Age

31

Ht

196cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.5

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

5.4

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

2.6

5star

D

10.0

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

2.9

2star

M

4.6

4star

T

2.0

3star

G

1.9

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

3.2

3star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.4

4star

G

2.0

5star

.

Any of these could be considered “hard decisions” but still be philosophically opposed. A “hard decision” simply means that you risk upsetting a stakeholder. Knowing which hard decision to make is what will determine success or otherwise.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Funny all the Geelong bagging, y'know the team that spanked us by 68 pts.

Short memory no?

 

[Carringbush2010]

To be fair, Geelong were made to choke. Richmond turned it up a level after half time. So much belief that side.

That's what we should be aiming at.

Did not see a single passage of play that involved a series of sideways passes to a team-mate under pressure.

Aiming at? We should already be that!

The way Ed parrots on and chest beats about our club is embarrassing, we're no better than the dogs or saints in fact worse than north. That's right north.

STFU Eddie, you make us look like what we really are, a laughing stock.

The amount of resource we have to pull on, the trading debacles, the off field embarrassments, the list goes on. We should have 25 flags in the cabinet at the very least, not 27 losses.

We keep wasting window after window and yet some on here and out in the real world question why the frustration.

I mean really? That's up for question is it? Talk about head in the sand stuff.

Yeah I know this is a rant and sorry you had to cop mate but it is a forum and that comment of 'aiming at' was the trigger when so many have some delusional thinking we're already there.

 

[jathanas]

Aiming at? We should already be that!

The way Ed parrots on and chest beats about our club is embarrassing, we're no better than the dogs or saints in fact worse than north. That's right north.

STFU Eddie, you make us look like what we really are, a laughing stock.

The amount of resource we have to pull on, the trading debacles, the off field embarrassments, the list goes on. We should have 25 flags in the cabinet at the very least, not 27 losses.

We keep wasting window after window and yet some on here and out in the real world question why the frustration.

I mean really? That's up for question is it? Talk about head in the sand stuff.

Yeah I know this is a rant and sorry you had to cop mate but it is a forum and that comment of 'aiming at' was the trigger when so many have some delusional thinking we're already there.

I think we're in furious agreement, we should be that club.

Using the words "aiming at" is a realistic acceptance of the fact that we are not.

Edit: Yes, that was a bit of a rant.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Funny all the Geelong bagging, y'know the team that spanked us by 68 pts.

Short memory no?

They came equal last like the rest of us. I’d prefer our list to theirs thanks .