Guy Richards

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If Collingwood delisted him, they must feel he is not up to it. He may have had averaged 12-13 hitouts per game, but how many were to advantage? Collingwood do not get rid of good players.

My take on this is if he is only there to make up the numbers, we are still better off taking the best available talent. Collard and Pfeifer sound like great talents with attitude problems. Attitudes can change but talent is innate.

Imagine if we get Richards and he turns out to be an elephant, while Collard tears up the midfield for another team. Nobody would be happy about that!

Better off with Bellchambers in the ND!
 
YellowandBlackBlood said:
If Collingwood delisted him, they must feel he is not up to it. He may have had averaged 12-13 hitouts per game, but how many were to advantage? Collingwood do not get rid of good players.

My take on this is if he is only there to make up the numbers, we are still better off taking the best available talent. Collard and Pfeifer sound like great talents with attitude problems. Attitudes can change but talent is innate.

Imagine if we get Richards and he turns out to be an elephant, while Collard tears up the midfield for another team. Nobody would be happy about that!

Better off with Bellchambers in the ND!
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Imagine we pick up Collard and he is a shit bloke who has not work ethic and also disrupts other young players like Conners. And then Patto and Simmonds go down for the year and all we have left is Angus Graham and a first year ruckmen.:rolleyes:

Hindsight is everything
 
I don't want to use pick 18 on Bellchambers. Would much prefer a tall defender like Tayte Pears. We should use pick 51 on a ruck and a rookie pick aswell, providing we don't get Richards. If we get Richards we should use only a rookie pick and use 51 on the best available or best tall 194cm+ foward
 

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If two of our best players in any one area go down we're rooted. richo and brown go down we're relying on a guy like riewoldt. newman and bowden go down and we're gonna have to turn to connors or someone to step in. If there's a youngster with potential in the PSD and we overlook them for an 'insurance policy' then we really aren't building. my 2 cents.
 
tigers_of_old_08 said:
Thats a great point tigertiger, unfortunately I'm not in a position to know who else is available, and I wish I knew.

I can however offer you the following scenario, which might help.

Which of these 2 lists is the odd one out?
1. Kent Kingsley, Lance Whitnall, Guy Richards
2. Chriss Judd, Ben Cousins, Guy Richards

I know which group I'd be putting Richards in.
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So how many available players fit into your second group? Every club needs depth remember.
 
Drunken Wookie said:
If two of our best players in any one area go down we're rooted. richo and brown go down we're relying on a guy like riewoldt. newman and bowden go down and we're gonna have to turn to connors or someone to step in. If there's a youngster with potential in the PSD and we overlook them for an 'insurance policy' then we really aren't building. my 2 cents.
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EXACTLY!

OMG if the whole team gets injured......

You cannot and should not pick up dud players to cover up deficiencies. The deficiencies should be covered with the best talent in the land. If that is not available in one year, the aim is to pick it up the next. Defensive recruiting is why we are in the position we are in at the moment. If ALL the ruckmen go down next year, we are better off finishing in our correct position and picking up higher choices in the draft ( eg Natanui).

Our club refuses to play the draft system correctly and keeps on paying the price. We need to win premierships, not just finish ninth. Players like Richards may help us make the latter but definitely wont help us accomplish the former. Why do you think Collingwood delisted him? It's exactly for that reason. Why should we aim for less?
 
YellowandBlackBlood said:
If Collingwood delisted him, they must feel he is not up to it. He may have had averaged 12-13 hitouts per game, but how many were to advantage? Collingwood do not get rid of good players.
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I think it's because MM tends to mark players on finals performances (Jason Cloke in the GF03). His preliminary final was not his best. Oh yeah, and his hitouts are actually pretty effective in terms of going to advantage.
 
Johnson#26 said:
I think it's because MM tends to mark players on finals performances (Jason Cloke in the GF03). His preliminary final was not his best. Oh yeah, and his hitouts are actually pretty effective in terms of going to advantage.
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A good ruckman these days needs to have other strings to their bow. They should be either a great defensive mark to help out down back, dangerous up forward or good around the ground. Just getting your hand to the ball isn't enough. And they need to show they can perform in the big games. That's how premierships are won. I suspect MM felt Guy didn't tick enough of the above boxes.
Again, why should we accept an inferior product?
 
Drunken Wookie said:
If two of our best players in any one area go down we're rooted. richo and brown go down we're relying on a guy like riewoldt. newman and bowden go down and we're gonna have to turn to connors or someone to step in. If there's a youngster with potential in the PSD and we overlook them for an 'insurance policy' then we really aren't building. my 2 cents.
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It is suppose to be a very shallow draft. Not much after pick 30 odd
 
Considering the position we are coming from I think that Richards would be a handy pick up, if he was the best available in the PSD. If we were sure that is who we were going to be left with as first pick in the PSD then take him as insurance but he also allows us greater flexibility. Richards is a 201cm 98kg ruckman with AFL experience who would be ready to go from round 1.

I have read that the club sees Pattison as more a CHF than Ruckman in the future and I think as such we should be playing him in that position from the start of the 08 season. Leave Simmonds, Graham and Richards to carry the rucking duties for the season. If we were to lose 2 of them through injury then we would still have Patto to lend support to the remaining ruckman.

The way I see it we have 3 picks in the ND and I believe they should be used on getting players to fill holes on the list. We all believe it will be one of Cotchin/Morton/Masten at 2 then IMO we should two KP types with 18 & 51. Use the last pick for Richards in the PSD and then with our 4 rookie picks we can add 1-2 rookie ruckmen to the list.
 
tigers_of_old_08 said:
Hmm, I tend to agree with you tigerlee, I have read that Richards has been plagued with injuries (groin, hip, knee) and has played only 39 games in 7yrs of AFL footy. So, this makes me wonder WHY he has been let go..

I would hope that if Richmond seriously consider ANY player, he would first need to pass a stringent and thorough fitness test / examination before being offered a contract.

Player INJURY seems to be any clubs worst nightmare in their campaign for a flag!
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He also had kidney problems when he first came to Collingwood.
 
Can I ask a very important question.
Who would you prefer rucking if it came down to it, Richards a recognised ruckman or Polak the bloke we recruited to play CHB?
 
Realistic Tiger said:
Considering the position we are coming from I think that Richards would be a handy pick up, if he was the best available in the PSD. If we were sure that is who we were going to be left with as first pick in the PSD then take him as insurance but he also allows us greater flexibility. Richards is a 201cm 98kg ruckman with AFL experience who would be ready to go from round 1.

I have read that the club sees Pattison as more a CHF than Ruckman in the future and I think as such we should be playing him in that position from the start of the 08 season. Leave Simmonds, Graham and Richards to carry the rucking duties for the season. If we were to lose 2 of them through injury then we would still have Patto to lend support to the remaining ruckman.

The way I see it we have 3 picks in the ND and I believe they should be used on getting players to fill holes on the list. We all believe it will be one of Cotchin/Morton/Masten at 2 then IMO we should two KP types with 18 & 51. Use the last pick for Richards in the PSD and then with our 4 rookie picks we can add 1-2 rookie ruckmen to the list.
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I honestly agree and using the last pick we got for him wouldnt be a bad thing either, also that Simmo likes playing down forward he can rotate with Patto when he wants a go in rucking. Richards would be handy especially if 2 of our 3 current ruckman get injured even if he isnt that good of a player, he would be a handy pick up.
 

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Richards worked over Jolly in the SF for the pies
He was then exposed by Bottens in the PF

He can have a decent game if his confidence is up, but is too fragile to play a full season
 
Realistic Tiger said:
Can I ask a very important question.
Who would you prefer rucking if it came down to it, Richards a recognised ruckman or Polak the bloke we recruited to play CHB?
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The obvious answer is Polak.

Can I ask another more pertinent question?
Should we be trying to recruit the best players that can win us a premiership, or should we patch up our team with average players so we can come 9th?
 
RichosGuns said:
I would prefer to take 22 y.o ruckman from the SANFL or VFL who dominates, like a Tristan Cartliege.

But I would also prefer to take Richards over a young flanker/mid/small foward
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You have got to be kidding? Cartleige is even more of a dud than Richards......

Good luck to Richmond with either of them hacks.....:D
 
YellowandBlackBlood said:
The obvious answer is Polak.

Can I ask another more pertinent question?
Should we be trying to recruit the best players that can win us a premiership, or should we patch up our team with average players so we can come 9th?
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Easy question, lol, but really we should go for what we can get, Richards should be chased as the last pick that we've got unless theres something better out there. The past few years we've gotten alot of ruckmen and they've done nothing, only good ones have been Ottens, Stafford and Simmonds, but right now Patterson and Graham are our future and Richards could be a handy player to have if we cant get in another suitable ruckman.
 
YellowandBlackBlood said:
The obvious answer is Polak.

Can I ask another more pertinent question?
Should we be trying to recruit the best players that can win us a premiership, or should we patch up our team with average players so we can come 9th?
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Please list the players that have won a premiership that have been taken in the PSD over the last 7 years. I can name 2 Craig Bolton(Swans) and Josh Mahoney(Port). If we are looking at recruiting players capable of winning premierships in the PSD then we are looking in the wrong spot.

The National draft is where we should be looking and picking players that are going to take us to the next Richmond premiership not the PSD. As it stands we have 1 experienced ruckman and 2 relative rookie ruckmen, I would be feeling much more comfortable heading into the season knowing we have some back up should Simmonds go down again that has experience at AFL level rather than looking at the inexperienced Pattison and Graham who no doubt will try their hardest but wont match it with or beat the likes of Charman, Everitt, Cox, White, Sandilands & Jolly. Richards might not beat them either but at least he does not take away from the make up of the team. Move Polak to the ruck and have Bowden take CHB or better yet we can play Raines there again.

For us to get better as a team we need players like Polak and Pattison who are both primarily KP who were both forced to play ruck this year due to injuries to be playing those key positions. Polak at CHB and Patto at CHF. Then and only then will we start to improve at a rapid rate. Not sure how others feel but personally I know which team I would prefer running out more times than not next year:

B: Newman Thursfield McGuane
HB: McMahon Polak Bowden
C: Polo Coughlan Deledio
HF: Pettifer Pattison Tambling
F: Brown Richo M.Morton
R: Simmonds Tuck Foley
I: Richards Johnson Raines Riewoldt
E: Graham Tivendale King

OR

B: Newman Thursfield McGuane
HB: McMahon Polak Bowden
C: Polo Coughlan Deledio
HF: Pettifer RichoTambling
F: Brown Schulz M.Morton
R: Graham Tuck Foley
I: Pattison Johnson Raines Riewoldt
E: EdwardsTivendale King
 
The best available player in the PSD will be Lance Whitnall.

There is a couple of things to consider,

1. Age, Tigers are not pushing for a cup so that rules him out

2. Development, if Whitnall is in the side it means either 1 of Schulz or Riewoltd is either out of the side of played out of position.


Seeing as the Tigers will want to be focusing on getting younger guys games, if it was up to me I'd take a punt on a kid that fell through the ND.

Pretty much all eligible for PSD besides Lance are hacks
 
BLue_Bloys said:
The best available player in the PSD will be Lance Whitnall.

There is a couple of things to consider,

1. Age, Tigers are not pushing for a cup so that rules him out

2. Development, if Whitnall is in the side it means either 1 of Schulz or Riewoltd is either out of the side of played out of position.


Seeing as the Tigers will want to be focusing on getting younger guys games, if it was up to me I'd take a punt on a kid that fell through the ND.

Pretty much all eligible for PSD besides Lance are hacks
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TBH I hope we dont go chasing for Lance Whittnall as we really havent got any positions to give him. Sure we could throw him down forward but we already have that position filled and he'd most likely be playing in the VFL for the whole season, not really worth chasing and the fact that he is also too injury prone and even the doctors have said his knees are in pretty bad shape.
 
I'm not sure if it is a fair comparison RT. I do not think the current team can win a premiership. To win a premiership, our 29+ year old players will have retired and we need to replace them with the highest possible talent, not just stop gaps. Take a punt on a young guy, even if he isn't a ruckman. He could turn out to be another Foley and be a thorn in every side we play against. If he ends up not being good, then he is dropped and our recruiters will have to try harder next time. At least you are giving yourself a chance to uncover a champion. Older recycled players have often been given enough chances to show us their worth. They will never be champions. As I suggested, a Natanui sounds like a lot better prospect than a Richards. That sort of player has the potential to help us win a flag. In all fairness to Guy, I don't think he will. I hope, if we pick him up, that I'm proven wrong!
 
Trouble with the 'no stop gaps' approach is that it really takes 3-4 years for a Ruckman to be physically ready to play, and pushing them forward too quickly will do more harm than good.

Graham or Pattison are a year or two off, and can take a stint as second ruck ( 5-10mins off the bench ) but not as first, so if Simmo goes down ( and we already know his preseason will be interupted ), then we'll have a couple of kids getting beaten up.

We need a bigger, more mature body to take the pounding and allow the kids more time to develop at Coburg ( and in the gym ). Even if it's just for 1 year, it'd be a good thing ( although I'd prefer 2 years ).

It's bad list management that we got in this situation, but that's where we are.
 
Well I wont be surprised if we do in fact pick him up because if you look in the past we have picked up alot of ruckmen who were discarded from clubs ie: Ben Marsh from Adelaide, Trent Knobel from St. Kilda, Greg Stafford from Sydney, so I reckon theres a big chance of us pulling in Richards.
 

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