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AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Guy Richards
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Great post RT (as I'm with ya 100%!). Like the look of this...I am more for Morton on the wing and Lids or Polo onball. Interesting looking at that Raines may be fighting Kingy for a possie.
Not sure Patto is our CHF, even though that is what we recruited him for. I just see him as a lumbering type, who can cover ground admittedly and get off a ruckman and win some ball around the ground, but not sure how he would go against a good CHB. But I never thought he would have a chance playing ruck either and he stood up OK. So, yeah, best to give him a shot at CHF.
Simmonds / Richards...with Gus as the developing / backup. One more late 198+ kid picked late in the draft!
But if someone has some other mature ready to go ruckman that they feel will do better than Richards as a 2nd ruck then fire away.
Of course until we know who the final list is known for the PSD, we might be better elsewhere as personally I think we can go next year with:
Simmonds/Patto/Gus/Polak and get a raw kid to work with. Lets face it, if the injury gods take down our rucks for a 2nd year running, it isn't going to cost us a flag!
I agree with you YellowandBlackBlood!
RT is just plain WRONG!
If we don't have a ruckman because ours are all injured then bad luck! I would rather pick up a likely champ like Natanui the next year, rather than another chump!
Richmond have been doing this for years and it is KILLING THEM!
Kent Kingsley - recruited in case Richo went down.
Trent Knobel - recruited in case Simmonds went down.
Ben Marsh - NFI why he was recruited.
FFS where did these guys get us? NOWHERE!
Stop filling our list with MUPPETS!!!!!!!
Fill the list with quality players and we stand a chance.
NO SHORT TERM STOP GAPS RICHMOND!!!!!!!!
RT is just plain WRONG!
If we don't have a ruckman because ours are all injured then bad luck! I would rather pick up a likely champ like Natanui the next year, rather than another chump!
Richmond have been doing this for years and it is KILLING THEM!
Kent Kingsley - recruited in case Richo went down.
Trent Knobel - recruited in case Simmonds went down.
Ben Marsh - NFI why he was recruited.
FFS where did these guys get us? NOWHERE!
Stop filling our list with MUPPETS!!!!!!!
Fill the list with quality players and we stand a chance.
NO SHORT TERM STOP GAPS RICHMOND!!!!!!!!
Thanks AT.
RT's attitude is very common at BF. Many agree with him. I feel that we have been propping our list up with these stop gap measures for too long. In fact it's happened since 1982.
Nobody has had the balls to go the whole hog and build our team from the ground up. TW has almost done it but he to waivers when push comes to shove. I hope he doesn't this year.
Rance won't be available at 18 so why not go for the best available ruckman then? With Polak, Thursfield and McGuane down back we are ok for talls.
Bellchambers has had good raps on him with some saying he is a better tap ruckman than Kreuzer.
I agree, no more stop gaps! DEVELOP OUR OWN!
RT's attitude is very common at BF. Many agree with him. I feel that we have been propping our list up with these stop gap measures for too long. In fact it's happened since 1982.
Nobody has had the balls to go the whole hog and build our team from the ground up. TW has almost done it but he to waivers when push comes to shove. I hope he doesn't this year.
Rance won't be available at 18 so why not go for the best available ruckman then? With Polak, Thursfield and McGuane down back we are ok for talls.
Bellchambers has had good raps on him with some saying he is a better tap ruckman than Kreuzer.
I agree, no more stop gaps! DEVELOP OUR OWN!
OK...fair enough...so AT and YBB, tell us which potential 'champ' you would like to take that is available in the PSD..(And don't say Cousins!)
Dont take him unless we can Rookie him. I think it is worth the risk as i dont see any team really wanting the guy. However you would think we have the only picks in the rookie draft as we have allegedly told Howat and Peterson we will be picking them up again.
Don't understand why the Tiges want to draft an ultra-dud like Richards. Far prefer to take on a heap of Irish Rookies like the Blues have/are doing. We've got another 2 this year, and have already locked in several more over the next few years. Icke's been busy. Why hasn't Miller done the same? 
Name a ruckman who hits his straps between 18-24, not many, in a weak PSD draft Richards would be value. Would compliment Simmo and Patto with Gus emerging.
For the record I beleive Gus has a big upside, is a big frame that needs to fill out but in 3-4 years I think he will be a solid ruckman barring injury.
_RT_
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- #59
I think you have overlooked the one key point of my arguement and that is the PSD is not where you recruit premiership winners, it is where you add a player or 2 that fill a hole on your list. Right now one of our biggest areas of concern is we have one recognised ruckman in Simmonds and 2 kids still learning the ropes. At least if we were to get Richards and Simmonds was to miss games we would have an experienced body to throw in to help Patto and Graham, instead of having to move 3-4 other players around so Polak can ruck.
FWIW Richards is not my first choice for the PSD but the players I would have liked have either re-signed or will re sign in the next few weeks as far as I can tell. That being the case we should be concerning ourselves with making sure that unlike last season we actually have cover for the ruck because we saw how not having cover affected our season this year. We went from an 11 win team to a 3 win team partly because we were relying on Patto and blokes like Polak and Richo to play the ruck. As I said earlier I would much rather the KP players we have playing in those KP rather than trying to somehow manage to fluke a few hitouts in the ruck.
_RT_
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As I pointed out earlier there have only been 2 players recruited from the PSD, in the last 7 years, that I know of that have gone on to win a premiership, those 2 being Bolton(Swans) & Mahoney at Port.
So please go ahead tell us the quality players that are available in the PSD that will benefit us more than Richards would?
acr2751
Club Legend
if there is no one of better quality than Richards in pre season draft just skip it take a extra palyer in national draft
At the moment we do not have the complete list of those in the PSD. If the list is crap, then don't pick up anyone or pick up the best available kid that was overlooked in the ND. There are many bottom aged kids who have a lot of upside that are overlooked. Even last year, Collier was overlooked and will now probably go top 20. This is where your recruiters show their worth. Anybody can pick a Kreuzer/Cotchin/Morton/Masten. It takes a lot of research and hours spent watching the kids to see who has the potential to be a star.
It may not be the best example, but in 2005 we went for Knobel with the number 1 choice. Carlton picked Eddie Betts with number 3. Knobel is gone but Betts remains. He may go on and be a 100+game player. Given he is never going to be an out and out champ, he still is a dangerous player up forward and is the ideal crumber to the taller forwards. This is what I mean, you have to take risks to climb the ladder. Playing "safe" just gets us NOWHERE!
Thanks AT.
I was canned by RT when I mentioned Collard. This guy has enormous talent. He destroyed Vic Metro with Jetta a couple of years ago and was thought by many to be a better player than Jetta.
Sure he may poison the minds of our young ones, but that is unlikely with the structures in place at our club. At least he has the potential to be a champion. He could take the position of a Chris Hyde who surely has had enough chances to show us his worth!
This is what risk taking is about. The Tigers need to do a lot of it before we see a premiership again.
I was canned by RT when I mentioned Collard. This guy has enormous talent. He destroyed Vic Metro with Jetta a couple of years ago and was thought by many to be a better player than Jetta.
Sure he may poison the minds of our young ones, but that is unlikely with the structures in place at our club. At least he has the potential to be a champion. He could take the position of a Chris Hyde who surely has had enough chances to show us his worth!
This is what risk taking is about. The Tigers need to do a lot of it before we see a premiership again.
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and so the tradition of hack ruckmen being the 1st pick in the PSD will continue ...
2004 - Trent Knobel
2005 - Dylan McLaren
2006 - Cain Ackland
2007 - Guy Richards ??
2004 - Trent Knobel
2005 - Dylan McLaren
2006 - Cain Ackland
2007 - Guy Richards ??
Yes I heard about him last week and thought he might be worth a go.
As I said, it may be about if Patto is going to be tried as a permanent CHF. Although surely this would have been tried late last year rather than be guessing about it now??
Maybe Gus will be the key. They have promoted him and so if they feel after another preseason he is up for regular senior games next year should he be needed, then we will go with a kid with much more upside than Richards. As CYD just pointed out, these big hacks that only get a game 'cause they are tall, really are a waste of space.
My only concern is the big guys go down so often, you need a store where you can get a quick replacement to fill in while work gets done on your main one. Otherwise you have short people getting embarrassed jumping up against giants.
Don't understand why the Tiges want to draft an ultra-dud like Richards. Far prefer to take on a heap of Irish Rookies like the Blues have/are doing. We've got another 2 this year, and have already locked in several more over the next few years. Icke's been busy. Why hasn't Miller done the same?
WHY? Because besides Jim Stynes and Sean Wight two million years ago, none of the Irsih recruits have amounted to anything.
Talk up Setanta all you like, the guy has done diddly-squat to date and will likely be out of the system within two years!
There have been plenty of experiments, but besides the Dees, no one has benefited yet!
And I say this knowing full well that Clarke from Collingwood will make it...but early days still!
Problem being, you don't know who is available for the PSD at the time of the national draft.
Every possibility that some decent player walks from his club because of contractual arrangements, or some teammate starts r**ting his Mrs, or a falling out with the coach!
Hypothetical....but what if we lock ourselves in early and take an extra pick in the national draft and use it on some kid we take at pick 64 and is very unlikely to stick and three days later some gun at West Coast decides he has had enough of the culture over there and wants out?
Carlton or Melbourne pick up the gun while we are left with some skinny half back flanker from the Murray Bushrangers, who likely never cuts the mustard!
Surely Tigers fans would rather see the club invest in someone like Collard in the PSD rather than waste a pick on Guy Richards who has shown very little at Collingwood after numerous chances? Does anyone remember his last game against Ottens?
_RT_
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If people are questioning why Richards was let go after several seasons at the Pies, then surely they must be wondering why Collard was let go after 1 season? Clubs don't usually let go such highly rated kids unless there is something wrong either physically or mentally, considering that Collard is still training with Fremantle I would suggest there is something wrong with his attitude.
Unfortunately we are not in a position to be overly choosy about who we do and don't take in the PSD. If our list was up there with the real contenders for a flag then I would sy fair enough take a punt on a Collard/Mourish type who has been let go after a year. However, as it stands we need help in just about every area and unless someone like Rutten fell into the PSD, which is highly unlikely, there is not much else.
My other issue is we're going to take 3 kids in the National Draft as well as another 4 kids in the rookie draft. So in that regard there is plenty of chance we might pick up a future champion or three with those 7 picks, with at least 1 pick we should play it safely and take an insurance player like Richards, while he might be a hack but he is a hack that can at least offer some protection and assistance to a player like Patto who last year got belted by bigger bodies week after week. Richards can at least ease some of that work load if Patto was forced into being first ruck again.
What are we really going to lose by getting a player like Richards for 1-2 years and using him as a workhorse while Graham and Pattison gain experience and build bodies big enough to allow them to compete at AFL level on a weeky basis?
The point is both Graham and Pattison are 20 & 21 and possible 10 year players, so why run the risk of possibly shortening their careers by putting them in the ruck before their ready to compete on a level playing field. Use a body like Richards for 1-2 years at minimum wage and when Graham and Patto are ready to play ruck on a full time basis they will still have 8-9 years available to them and Richmonds list will be in a position where we are true contenders for a flag not just a team making up the numbers.
_RT_
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You're right Betts is not the best example, especially when you consider the team he has been playing for. Betts is Carltons version of Andy Krakouer, dangerous crumbing forward who has a great game every few months and then goes missing for a while. LIke Krakouer he averages a goal a game, does a bit of work in the midfield through necessity rather than ability and that is for a team that has spent his entire career as a bottom 2 side. Put him in a good-great side and he would be lucky to get a game. As for us taking Knobel I can assure you that if we didn't then without fail the Blues would have.
As I have mentioned before the PSD is not where you go shopping for future premiership stars it is where you go shopping for a player to fill a need on your list first and foremost and if nothing is there that does that then you take a risk on a kid.
And there is then the possibility, as small as it is, Richards stays injury free and we develop some young ruck stocks, Richards may have improved his worth and may help in a trade to upgrade a pick or help get another player in a few years. He will still have a few years left in him, and as I mentioned, these big guys hold value! If he stays as is, then as you said, good for 2 years and delist. It is the PSD FFS!
Thats where the others seem to be getting confused in this thread RT. The draft is to get your kids and not go 'with stop gaps'. They are confused with trading THOSE picks away like we did in the dark days of that coach whose name I won't mention. Long enough ago to be feeling there is light, but close enough so that the effects of those years are still be worked out this, and next year too. Some are saying giving up 19 and 35 are doing that. Time will tell. But 19 was a gift pick anyway and pick 35 is not giving up much for what we know Morton can do and more importantly his age.
As you said, 7 kids, 2 being picks 2 and 18 means there is a good number of young talent coming in this year!
I just think the Tiges are missing a HUGE opportunity. These guys cost nothing in terms of draft picks, and the Blues, Pies, Lions and Swans are exploiting this loophole in the AFL draft process while they can. Miller has been caught on the back foot again. He should be over there, watching these guys play and setting up deals like Icke has been doing.
That low 2nd round pick you traded away, could have been used on a developing ruck talent. The 2nd or 3rd best ruck talent is usually available with that pick. you could have got McMahon using your PSD #1 pick, and kept both low 2nd round picks. I just don't understand the logic behind Miller's trade/draft strategy.
