Hardwick outcoaches again

[Ned_Flanders]

And given Rancey's disposal efficiency is 83%, he should probably look elsewhere. Cotchin's is 62%.

The Rance thing has been massively over played because of a few commentators like BT always querying his disposal

 

[cairo tiger]

You named THREE players as not having a gun kick out of how many? COnsidering our list used to have three good kicks full stop, this is a massive improvement.

What people like yourself need to remember is a premiership side isn't made of 18 Deledio or Cotchin types. You have jobbers and role players who are not sexy, but perform their role as required.

If you want a perfect list, how does sacking Hardwick help that anyway?


More importantly, can you explain to me how sacking coaches due to impatience is now going to work for us, when it worked so bloody brilliantly for us in the 80's and 90's? It's views like this which is why the cliche of RFC supporters eating our own exists.

Mate all I am saying is that there needs to be checks and balances, if it was me, I want improvement. Our coach needs to improve just like our players. For me it is top 8 or bust for hardwick and some of his coaches. That is a fair challenge for him and a goal to shoot for. My view only mate, you are entitled to yours

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Mate all I am saying is that there needs to be checks and balances, if it was me, I want improvement. Our coach needs to improve just like our players. For me it is top 8 or bust for hardwick and some of his coaches. That is a fair challenge for him and a goal to shoot for. My view only mate, you are entitled to yours

You want improvement, but you have it. We are winning by more each year, we are improving percentage each year, we are improving depth each year.

Its is a slow build, but its a sustainable build.

Are you seriously saying if we finish with 12 wins with a better %age than 2012, but miss the 8, you will be demanding his dismissal? If so, this is as dumb as those who wanted to sack Gale because not making finals in 2012 breached his 3-0-75 "promise"

 

[cairo tiger]

You want improvement, but you have it. We are winning by more each year, we are improving percentage each year, we are improving depth each year.

Its is a slow build, but its a sustainable build.

Are you seriously saying if we finish with 12 wins with a better %age than 2012, but miss the 8, you will be demanding his dismissal? If so, this is as dumb as those who wanted to sack Gale because not making finals in 2012 breached his 3-0-75 "promise"

yup I am saying that. For me that is the scenario. We need to be more competitive and give the supporters that intangible- hope. YOu are calling it a slow build, I am still seeing same mistakes, they have to go or personnel have to go. Thats just me. Whats your great idea? More of the same? 4 years and we expect more.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

yup I am saying that. For me that is the scenario. We need to be more competitive and give the supporters that intangible- hope. YOu are calling it a slow build, I am still seeing same mistakes, they have to go or personnel have to go. Thats just me. Whats your great idea? More of the same? 4 years and we expect more.

I see more long term potential in this side than I have in 30 years.

In 95 and 01 I remember thinking we were lucky to make finals, and I was just hoping the bubble didn't burst. We needed everything to go our way, and while it did we were golden. Of course luck doesn't last, and once we had a few issues we imploded.

We have more depth now, and a more solidly structured side that I expect to be able to contest finals year in year out once they reach maturity.

Your model gave us 30 years of pain

 

[Boston tiger]

I guess the best we can hope for is a finals birth with this lot. But at some stage ( probably already in place) if you can't kick you don't get a look in at Richmond.
They are all ready saying that its not contested footy or stoppages anymore. It's highly skilled players attacking on the rebound.
Not too fazed about Dimma just hope he can bite the bullet soon and replace a few that do a good job but won't take us all the way.

 

[theflea]

Mate all I am saying is that there needs to be checks and balances, if it was me, I want improvement. Our coach needs to improve just like our players. For me it is top 8 or bust for hardwick and some of his coaches. That is a fair challenge for him and a goal to shoot for. My view only mate, you are entitled to yours

yep agree your entitled to your view and we all see things differently but for me do you really think the club doesnt have KPI's for coaches just as they have for the players and they are not assessed each year by the board?

 

[cairo tiger]

I see more long term potential in this side than I have in 30 years.

In 95 and 01 I remember thinking we were lucky to make finals, and I was just hoping the bubble didn't burst. We needed everything to go our way, and while it did we were golden. Of course luck doesn't last, and once we had a few issues we imploded.

We have more depth now, and a more solidly structured side that I expect to be able to contest finals year in year out once they reach maturity.

Your model gave us 30 years of pain

My model- it aint my model mate. Its called accountability. My model gave us wallace- 5 years- frawley 5 years- they destroyed the bloody joint- hardwick and benny have done good things but this is a competitive environment- I want and I think there are others with me- who want improvement across the board- on all levels- and it is happening- but no one should be immune to it no one. Not any player and not any coach. I am saying very different things to 30 years of pain- and I can count every one of them because I was there and I shaked cans with the best of them. I am over that now. we need to develop players. has hardwcik done that? yes and no. rance- kicks it straight to the opposition and causes a goal and then someone talks of 83% efficiency- its the mistakes that kill us.

Look I hope hardy brings us fwd, it is gathering but whats wrong with putting an incentive on that? a challenge to all? we need to win the close games. we need to destroy the likes of melbourne. we need to come up with something different when we play freo (gets out coached every time). lets make dimma better by making himself better. I am over this discussion and going to walk the dog.

 

[Livonski]

The Rance thing has been massively over played because of a few commentators like BT always querying his disposal

Jeez he gave them some ammo on Sunday. Back to back howlers!

Love his work tho, he'll be fine.

 

[Livonski]

My model- it aint my model mate. Its called accountability. My model gave us wallace- 5 years- frawley 5 years- they destroyed the bloody joint- hardwick and benny have done good things but this is a competitive environment- I want and I think there are others with me- who want improvement across the board- on all levels- and it is happening- but no one should be immune to it no one. Not any player and not any coach. I am saying very different things to 30 years of pain- and I can count every one of them because I was there and I shaked cans with the best of them. I am over that now. we need to develop players. has hardwcik done that? yes and no. rance- kicks it straight to the opposition and causes a goal and then someone talks of 83% efficiency- its the mistakes that kill us.

Look I hope hardy brings us fwd, it is gathering but whats wrong with putting an incentive on that? a challenge to all? we need to win the close games. we need to destroy the likes of melbourne. we need to come up with something different when we play freo (gets out coached every time). lets make dimma better by making himself better. I am over this discussion and going to walk the dog.

Jimmy Bartel says hi. Have a look at the first 15mins of Cats/Pies. Players, even champions make mistakes, sometimes absolute shockers. Rance occasionally does some beauties but be assured he and the coaching panel are working very hard to minimise the errors to improve so that one day he does a Bartel and doesn't get burnt at the stake for it. They are improving Cairo...if we focus on the errors then let's be consistent and look how we compare to other sides. It aint that bad.

 

[Cotcho]

All I want Rance to do is play within his limitations. He is great at what he does but he has some massive short falls. He needs to understand this. Do the good things well and cut out the bad things.

 

[Rayzorwire]

I see incremental improvement over a number of years that could be attributed to our improved drafting alone as much as anything else.

Plus the extra age of players, Bruce.

Cotchin was a 2nd year kid when Hardwick took over, he's improved significantly each year and I think most would admit, Cotchin would be doing that under any coach. Ditto Martin. There's a sizable list of players who contributed little or nothing to the Wallace era they were drafted in, but their added age and experience has been a major factor in our modest yearly improvement during Hardwick's tenure.

...I was very happy Choc came on board to provide some mentoring.

Considering most would think it fair to say that match-day tactics is one area Hardwick does need mentoring in, you have to wonder how much use Choco can ever be to him from down on the bench...

 

[Ned_Flanders]

My model- it aint my model mate. Its called accountability. My model gave us wallace- 5 years- frawley 5 years- they destroyed the bloody joint- hardwick and benny have done good things but this is a competitive environment- I want and I think there are others with me- who want improvement across the board- on all levels- and it is happening- but no one should be immune to it no one. Not any player and not any coach. I am saying very different things to 30 years of pain- and I can count every one of them because I was there and I shaked cans with the best of them. I am over that now. we need to develop players. has hardwcik done that? yes and no. rance- kicks it straight to the opposition and causes a goal and then someone talks of 83% efficiency- its the mistakes that kill us.

Look I hope hardy brings us fwd, it is gathering but whats wrong with putting an incentive on that? a challenge to all? we need to win the close games. we need to destroy the likes of melbourne. we need to come up with something different when we play freo (gets out coached every time). lets make dimma better by making himself better. I am over this discussion and going to walk the dog.

Your not talking accountability though, you're talking succeed or die, which is straight from the GR play book. The reason we had Frawley for five years and wallace the same was our penance for a legacy of constantly sacking coaches for two decades. Your model is exactly why those two got 5 years - no one wanted to coach us, and we had to honor contracts to regain cred.

A key part of our five year plan is EVERY staff member has kpis they must meet, and that are regularly monitored. Dimma is included in this, and is accountable to meeting the kpis set for him by Gale and CC. We have accountability, unless you think Gale will squib it in the hard calls

 

[theflea]

Plus the extra age of players, Bruce.

Cotchin was a 2nd year kid when Hardwick took over, he's improved significantly each year and I think most would admit, Cotchin would be doing that under any coach. Ditto Martin. There's a sizable list of players who contributed little or nothing to the Wallace era they were drafted in, but their added age and experience has been a major factor in our modest yearly improvement during Hardwick's tenure.



Considering most would think it fair to say that match-day tactics is one area Hardwick does need mentoring in, you have to wonder how much use Choco can ever be to him from down on the bench...

Most of those players that you mentioned the other day who you said played their best under TW, i would also have under this statute.

 

[docko911]

I don't rate Dimma as a coach yet (think he is a top bloke though) because we haven't even played finals but his task was to develop a list capable of playing finals consistently. On a club level we should have done this with Danny Frawley or Terry Wallace but both were put under too much pressure too soon to make finals so they took shortcuts and traded off our future in picks for older players who didn't last as long. Also there was very poor development back in those days so many youngsters didn't find their feet very well AKA (Tambling, Meyer, Polo, Pattison, JON, Cleve) all just need correct development but none go it.

Hardwick should be under a little pressure to get results now but only with the young arsenal at his disposal + the free pick ups. If we don't play finals this year so be it but if we get to a stage next year when we aren't going to play finals then it is time for Hardwick to go, plain and simple. But I wouldn't say he was a bad coach because he has done his job unlike his predecessors so the next time we get a new coach there will already be a core playing list to build on.

***Bare in mind I think we play finals this year and I think Hardwick will coach well! And then I will rate him!

 

[Tigerland]

Still undecided either way but I like what Dimma pointed out in the dissection video.

He says all the right things and doesn't twist things like a lot of coaches do.

Simple messages and highlighting the plays that we as fans love to see from the players lucky enough to wear the yellow and black.

Maybe it's just match day coaching where he needs to improve.

I sure as hell hope that people can say I told you so by the end of the year.

 

[theflea]

Still undecided either way but I like what Dimma pointed out in the dissection video.

He says all the right things and doesn't twist things like a lot of coaches do.

Simple messages and highlighting the plays that we as fans love to see from the players lucky enough to wear the yellow and black.

Maybe it's just match day coaching where he needs to improve.

I sure as hell hope that people can say I told you so by the end of the year.

What they show me is, they know what they are doing to most degrees and simply the players need to get better.

 

[carn tigez]

What they show me is, they know what they are doing to most degrees and simply the players need to get better.

It definitely seems that way, but then how do we know that Mark Neeld isn't saying the same things to Melbourne? Ultimately if the players (as a group) don't get better, it's the coach that has to take responsibility.

As I've said before I rate Dimma and am a fan, but it is important that we do improve these things the way we currently are and don't plateau at any point.

 

[Wallaby]

I reckon if a new coach hasn't got you to the finals in 4 years - questions need to be asked.

 

[carn tigez]

I reckon if a new coach hasn't got you to the finals in 4 years - questions need to be asked.

It's all about the starting point. We started with a deplorable list, do you deny this? If not, why should Hardwick be given the same amount of time to reach the same point as another coach taking over a better shaped list? (say Hinkley for example, or Voss 5 years ago)

 

[theflea]

It definitely seems that way, but then how do we know that Mark Neeld isn't saying the same things to Melbourne? Ultimately if the players (as a group) don't get better, it's the coach that has to take responsibility.

As I've said before I rate Dimma and am a fan, but it is important that we do improve these things the way we currently are and don't plateau at any point.

Oh sure ive never said the coaches dont have to raise their level either or that DH is a god, just that he should be given his 5 years and then be critically assessed.

 

[MightyTiger]

Lol can't believe this shit is still going.