Hardwick outcoaches again

[Livonski]

Taken them apart like every other side has to date (average ones included)?

That was a pathetic performance today against a vfl calibre side.

But you go ahead and defend the undefendable chief, will enjoy watching the spin

So those players haven't improved? You asked the question, chief.
Still no analysis from you, completely avoided the question, chief. You said the coaching panel was garbage, why? You must've seen something? What?

 

[Livonski]

fairly ordinary effort from reports of my mates back home and nothing potent in our fwd entries. why is it we surrender the ball so easily out of our backline, cats succumbed to that last night, Hardwicks game plan is no pressure at the contest, instead we do this crap from Greg Baum

he stats sheet would not be denied: Richmond had the ball 100 times more than Melbourne, fetched inside 50 almost 20 more times, and that advantage would have been even more pronounced if the Tigers had not inexplicably decided to play out the end of the game in safety mode. It became a percentage neutraliser.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/tigers-see-off-plucky-demons-20130519-2jule.html#ixzz2TjRb6CA4

Now it makes sense.

 

[tigerT]

We were not very good by any stretch but you're not giving Melbourne any credit for today. If you've seen them at all this year you would notice that they work rate and tackling was about 10 times better then at any other point this year.

Every team usually has its chance at some point in the season where they play well above where they were. Just see yesterday Brisbane beating Essendon

You want to know why they played better today? Bc today they played an opponent that offered the least amount of intensity that they've faced this season so far. We were strolling around like a park walk in the first qtr and their confidence grew as a result. If we hit them with the same intenisty we finally showed early in the 4th we would have put them back in their box quick smart early and got ourselves a big % booster

 

[_Wang_]

well they should have had game plans cowboy. you plan ahead. you shift things into gear. it aint rocket science. we were generally not up today, I was harping on it all week, sure enough we mentally relaxed and we should have had greater ideas, spread and our fwd entries were at times pathetic. we are just an average team on that effort.

Dude they flooded back got maximum numbers behind the ball and basically were in damage control from the opening bounce..
Hey I would have preferred to pump them too but it didn't happen..
Is the current team and coaching staff going to take us to the promise land, I'm not sure but I do know one thing, at least we look like winning some games and we are far better than we have been for a long while.. 3 years ago we were a rabble and now we are a competitive football side who are some hope of playing finals..
I seriously couldn't see us being where we are now in the bleak first year of hardwicks tenure..

 

[tigerT]

So those players haven't improved? You asked the question, chief.
Still no analysis from you, completely avoided the question, chief. You said the coaching panel was garbage, why? You must've seen something? What?

I didnt ask those questions you goose, check who quoted what before shooting from the hip, ..chief

 

[Livonski]

I didnt ask those questions you goose, check who quoted what before shooting from the hip, ..chief

Honk. Sorry about that.

 

[Bojangles17]

thats exactly my point WHY arent we then hurting them on the scorebaord? good teams do that.

There were a couple of culprits there but from that you surely can't deduce the team struggled

 

[CoggaRules]

It has been a chronic issue for the tigers for at least he last 2 years...scroeboard pressure, or moreso the lack of it is hurting us big time, be it to gain percentage against bum sides, be it to gain a winning advantage against good sides, its now not just one of those things, its an issue that needs analysis, investigation and fixing. We have to fix the way we enter our F50. When will it dawn on Dimma and the brains trust that their game plan needs to be put to a bigger test. I mean, get with it Dimma, game plans are game plans, but when you take the weak low % route of hitting leads deep into pockets, the opposition will let you do that every week of the year...so time to get your act together dimma, lets see if you have the balls to put "your" game plan to the ultimate test, that maximises on the amount of inside 50s and hits targets in high % scoring areas...because right now its so ****ing obvious that you have NFI on getting into the zone..and opt for the zone that all and sundry give up to you Dimma..

 

[Cotcho]

Really love what Dimma has done up to this point. He has been patient and got the best out of players we thought were no good. He has got youth in and given them directions and structure and allowed them to make immediate impact. He has brought in guys from other lists or mature players and allowed them to fit into the style we are trying to play.

HOWEVER...

What we need more of is an ability to change how we play and how we set up during games when things are not going our way. We need to not be so 1 dimensional and predictable if that is not working.

For example: When Ross Lyon or Chris Scott feel that their forward line is dysfunctional they change the way the players are choosing to enter the 50 and more importantly they change the personnel. Harry Taylor gets covered by someone like Pods and is thrown forward. It is a simple like for like change but it keeps the opposition defense guessing and can throw out defensive structures.

An example I saw, which I believe could have worked was when Mcguane was not providing anything at the time that Rance made a couple of errors and was under the pump we could have simply swapped them. Throw Mcguane onto Dawes to get him into the game and throw Rances forward. Rance can pluck a mark but also provides a bit of speed/dash into the forward line. Just something to consider. Mcguane ends up being subbed and Rance did ok. Not a super result I would have thought.

There is time to persist with a plan, there's no point being reactive all the time but the Cats/Freo seem to profit a lot from being versatile at times.

Having said that Dusty was on half back for a bit today so perhaps they are making some effort to do this. A little more please. Plan A B C, not just Plan A. Thanks

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

Really love what Dimma has done up to this point. He has been patient and got the best out of players we thought were no good. He has got youth in and given them directions and structure and allowed them to make immediate impact. He has brought in guys from other lists or mature players and allowed them to fit into the style we are trying to play.

HOWEVER...

What we need more of is an ability to change how we play and how we set up during games when things are not going our way. We need to not be so 1 dimensional and predictable if that is not working.

For example: When Ross Lyon or Chris Scott feel that their forward line is dysfunctional they change the way the players are choosing to enter the 50 and more importantly they change the personnel. Harry Taylor gets covered by someone like Pods and is thrown forward. It is a simple like for like change but it keeps the opposition defense guessing and can throw out defensive structures.

An example I saw, which I believe could have worked was when Mcguane was not providing anything at the time that Rance made a couple of errors and was under the pump we could have simply swapped them. Throw Mcguane onto Dawes to get him into the game and throw Rances forward. Rance can pluck a mark but also provides a bit of speed/dash into the forward line. Just something to consider. Mcguane ends up being subbed and Rance did ok. Not a super result I would have thought.

There is time to persist with a plan, there's no point being reactive all the time but the Cats/Freo seem to profit a lot from being versatile at times.

Having said that Dusty was on half back for a bit today so perhaps they are making some effort to do this. A little more please. Plan A B C, not just Plan A. Thanks

I think your on the right train of thought but not with McGuane. He's no good down back and if you think Rance gives away too many free kicks then watch how many a former back man who used to give away free kicks for a living and has spent the last year training to be a forward gives away.

 

[theflea]

It has been a chronic issue for the tigers for at least he last 2 years...scroeboard pressure, or moreso the lack of it is hurting us big time, be it to gain percentage against bum sides, be it to gain a winning advantage against good sides, its now not just one of those things, its an issue that needs analysis, investigation and fixing. We have to fix the way we enter our F50. When will it dawn on Dimma and the brains trust that their game plan needs to be put to a bigger test. I mean, get with it Dimma, game plans are game plans, but when you take the weak low % route of hitting leads deep into pockets, the opposition will let you do that every week of the year...so time to get your act together dimma, lets see if you have the balls to put "your" game plan to the ultimate test, that maximises on the amount of inside 50s and hits targets in high % scoring areas...because right now its so ******* obvious that you have NFI on getting into the zone..and opt for the zone that all and sundry give up to you Dimma..

Mark williams we are looking at you.

 

[Cotcho]

I think your on the right train of thought but not with McGuane. He's no good down back and if you think Rance gives away too many free kicks then watch how many a former back man who used to give away free kicks for a living and has spent the last year training to be a forward gives away.

Haha yer perhaps, but when Rance is under the pump and he is in panic mode it doesn't get any worse than that, as bad as Mcguane used to be. haha

But anyway, even if that isn't the right move, at least it's a change. The intention to do something when it is not working is the key. When it's not working, it's not working.

 

[MightyTiger]

Wow there is some garbage in here, Tigert and cairo tiger you have offered no analysis what so ever and simply just constant criticism of Hardwick, at least when the likes of Rayzor and santa claws criticize they can actually construct an argument using facts rather then just mindless rubbish.

 

[cairo tiger]

Wow there is some garbage in here, Tigert and cairo tiger you have offered no analysis what so ever and simply just constant criticism of Hardwick, at least when the likes of Rayzor and santa claws criticize they can actually construct an argument using facts rather then just mindless rubbish.

how about this:

- fwd entries- fix it
- over reliance on chip possessions
- turnover kings: rance, jackson, grigg lose possession forcing pressure to come bacl
- letting them run and chip out of our backline- lyon killed us with this
- fwd line no blocking or clear leads blokes competing
- improvment- who has really improved this year bar ellis? cotchin a real worry, delidio gets tagged and we lose all agression
- hows that for size- it is our gameplan- we cant shit up a gear.
I could go on anyone with a football brain can see it is coaching and personnel

 

[MightyTiger]

how about this:

- fwd entries- fix it
- over reliance on chip possessions
- turnover kings: rance, jackson, grigg lose possession forcing pressure to come bacl
- letting them run and chip out of our backline- lyon killed us with this
- fwd line no blocking or clear leads blokes competing
- improvment- who has really improved this year bar ellis? cotchin a real worry, delidio gets tagged and we lose all agression
- hows that for size- it is our gameplan- we cant shit up a gear.
I could go on anyone with a football brain can see it is coaching and personnel

You really are struggling aren't you, that's not an analysis, that's an observation in a few areas you think need fixing, you offered 0 opinion on possibly how to fix it, something I respect Rayzor for even if I do disagree with him a lot of the times.

I find it funny that you somehow feel like you can criticize the coaches even though you're overseas and only get updates from mates? Quite odd IMO.

 

[Boston tiger]

Just on our forward set up.. the commentators said that McGuane gets the ball kicked to him more than any other forward. This a real feather in the cap for Luke. But I found it to be a truly amazing stat.

A few years ago Dimma said he didn't want Jack to be our sole focal point but I haven't seen us improve much in our forward 50 set up since.

A few on here have pointed out that a high ball in the pocket etc allows us to set up defensively again etc.

I think Jack is a better forward than Luke and I'm surprised we don't go to him more.
Can he lead? Doesn't want to? Too slow? Game plan?
Is it all about not getting caught on the rebound nowadays?

I can't get to the games live so can't really see what our set up looks like or what we are trying to do in the forward fifty?

 

[tigerT]

Wow there is some garbage in here, Tigert and cairo tiger you have offered no analysis what so ever and simply just constant criticism of Hardwick, at least when the likes of Rayzor and santa claws criticize they can actually construct an argument using facts rather then just mindless rubbish.

So warranted criticism is passed off as garbage now? I offer plenty of analysis and reasoning of my views week in week out, and I mentioned in my post that I thought our attitude was not up to scratch.

It was mindset.
-If you went to the game you would have noticed a distinct lack of intenisty for 3 qtrs. Tempo upped only in the 4th. Why? Not good enough.

-Batchelor twice this season has been played on a KPF and both times has been torn a new one Why? Why wasnt Rance put on Dawes from the start. Batchelor is 188cm. Not fair on the bloke and will likely be dropped like he was last time. Batchelor is a classic 3rd man up type, reads the play well and can set play up with long penetrating kicks. HE IS NOT A KPD, gets smashed on the lead and in the air. This was the 2nd time he has been hung out to dry like that.

-Why were Melbourne players lowering their eyes and hitting up targets inside 50 whilst we continually bombed it to the top of the square in a pack situation in the first half? and when we started lowering our eyes I counted at least 5-6 kicks to nahas and King on the lead in the second half, why are the goal sneaks playing the hittup target? why not Jack or Ty? Thats a dysfunctional fwd line setup. We have been crying out for a hitup target, until then Jack and Ty must MUST offer us a chop out up the ground. Continually having nahas and King offering leads is embarrassing.

There are a few glaring questions and reasons as to why we struggled to bury the easy beats of the competition.


youre welcome

 

[carn tigez]

^Vickery offered a chopout up the ground plenty of times yesterday and so did Jack. I'm not sure if you were saying they don't do this and should, or that they are forced to do this when they shouldn't be. But they both did this yesterday, Vickery in particular.

 

[cairo tiger]

You really are struggling aren't you, that's not an analysis, that's an observation in a few areas you think need fixing, you offered 0 opinion on possibly how to fix it, something I respect Rayzor for even if I do disagree with him a lot of the times.

I find it funny that you somehow feel like you can criticize the coaches even though you're overseas and only get updates from mates? Quite odd IMO.

you want me to write an analysis I can pm you mate.
happen to follow the club closely in all areas. recruiting, coaching, game plan, off field and on.
quite simply we dont have a structure going fwd and we over possess the ball. we had it 100 times more than them, that should amout to a a smashing, but we are not potent in converting.
its been our problem for a while now. if you have blokes like grigg who dont run defensively that is going to happen. he runs away from contests. we need to squeze the opposition. but mate you have you rlove fest with whoever you want. I AM AFTER making the club successful and winning games. hardwick and his panel and the players do not have the skills at this stage to mix it with the geelongs and the collingwoods. we need to get better. thats all what I am one about.

 

[_Wang_]

you want me to write an analysis I can pm you mate.
happen to follow the club closely in all areas. recruiting, coaching, game plan, off field and on.
quite simply we dont have a structure going fwd and we over possess the ball. we had it 100 times more than them, that should amout to a a smashing, but we are not potent in converting.
its been our problem for a while now. if you have blokes like grigg who dont run defensively that is going to happen. he runs away from contests. we need to squeze the opposition. but mate you have you rlove fest with whoever you want. I AM AFTER making the club successful and winning games. hardwick and his panel and the players do not have the skills at this stage to mix it with the geelongs and the collingwoods. we need to get better. thats all what I am one about.

Ok Cairo.. WE all want to mix it with the geelongs and Collingwood and win a flag..

What percentage do you see the problems as you see them
Developing list %
Coaching %

What I am asking is can you see any correlation between the development of the side and how we play or are you adamant that a change of coaching will make a difference? And if you are happy to give our coaches a chance to 'improve' how long have they got?

 

[cairo tiger]

Ok Cairo.. WE all want to mix it with the geelongs and Collingwood and win a flag..

What percentage do you see the problems as you see them
Developing list %
Coaching %

What I am asking is can you see any correlation between the development of the side and how we play or are you adamant that a change of coaching will make a difference? And if you are happy to give our coaches a chance to 'improve' how long have they got?

Hardwick has had 4 years. You would expect improvement after that. The coaching panel is young and I was hoping williams would have an impact, not sure is he has a direct coaching role more of a mentoring one. A measure of improvement is our competitiveness, for sure we are better but a measure of our improvment must be also the way the coaching staff improve players. I dont think the index is strong on this one. Ellis yes. You take someone like Grigg- no- he does not run defensively to pressure. I dont see improvements across the board in player improvement. To me that is a worry. For this you need to look at development coaches. I would like to see someone like allan richardson in the coaching dept- I have been vocal about this over the years- but he is now entrenched at pOrt. It is about putting the right people in the right places, I am not sure our fwd set up is working (this is nothing new) so you need to look at what the coaches are doing. The buck stops there. Hardwick has his favourites that is clear and jackson is one of them. tactically dimma needs to improve and I was happy the way we prepared for the port game and followed out instructions.

I still see another 2 years of turning the list over. We need to really structure up the list properly. We seem to have some good fwd prospects but where are the attacking hard nosed defenders? Is that why Griff is being played back? I dont see him as a defender and I would hate to lose him, but it seems that elton and mcbean are better fwd prospect goign fwds in the coaches eyes.

Game plan- we allow on average 2 kicks out before we man up- and then we want to zone into the midfeild and counter attack. Problem is we have blokes that do not man up in the guts- and good teams like collingwood and geelong can work through the centre easily with accuracy. Our backline is not ready for that. Rance I am not a fan of. He is one that has not improved. Has he beaten his opponent this year? I am not sure, but we do not have options going fwd. Darrou? Griff?

I am a big wrap for our efforts of the field. Like others here I have put my money up over the years (over 30 years now) and I want success. I could go on but these are my ramblings like others we have stabs at it but I am at times flabbergasted with common sense footy that goes missing.

 

[_Wang_]

cairo tiger, you make some valid points. I cannot see us being a legitimate premiership chance till we get more games into our mid level players.. Also it doesnt help that we are totally devoid of players from the 2000 - 2004 drafts in which we either picked duds or traded away top draft picks for players from other clubs..
You would hope the core we are building starting from the Deledio draft to Vas is going to be the cornerstone to being a premiership success.. Griff is a big part of this IMO we need him to lift and I think he will as long as he can keep on the park.

How much longer do you give Dimma and Co?? IMO they get till end of next year.

 

[cairo tiger]

cairo tiger, you make some valid points. I cannot see us being a legitimate premiership chance till we get more games into our mid level players.. Also it doesnt help that we are totally devoid of players from the 2000 - 2004 drafts in which we either picked duds or traded away top draft picks for players from other clubs..
You would hope the core we are building starting from the Deledio draft to Vas is going to be the cornerstone to being a premiership success.. Griff is a big part of this IMO we need him to lift and I think he will as long as he can keep on the park.

How much longer do you give Dimma and Co?? IMO they get till end of next year.

in 4 years we need to be in the 8. this would not be change for changes sake but change to take us further and better. who else is out there is a concern.

 

[cairo tiger]

So warranted criticism is passed off as garbage now? I offer plenty of analysis and reasoning of my views week in week out, and I mentioned in my post that I thought our attitude was not up to scratch.

It was mindset.
-If you went to the game you would have noticed a distinct lack of intenisty for 3 qtrs. Tempo upped only in the 4th. Why? Not good enough.

-Batchelor twice this season has been played on a KPF and both times has been torn a new one Why? Why wasnt Rance put on Dawes from the start. Batchelor is 188cm. Not fair on the bloke and will likely be dropped like he was last time. Batchelor is a classic 3rd man up type, reads the play well and can set play up with long penetrating kicks. HE IS NOT A KPD, gets smashed on the lead and in the air. This was the 2nd time he has been hung out to dry like that.

-Why were Melbourne players lowering their eyes and hitting up targets inside 50 whilst we continually bombed it to the top of the square in a pack situation in the first half? and when we started lowering our eyes I counted at least 5-6 kicks to nahas and King on the lead in the second half, why are the goal sneaks playing the hittup target? why not Jack or Ty? Thats a dysfunctional fwd line setup. We have been crying out for a hitup target, until then Jack and Ty must MUST offer us a chop out up the ground. Continually having nahas and King offering leads is embarrassing.

There are a few glaring questions and reasons as to why we struggled to bury the easy beats of the competition.


youre welcome

you say similar things to me and then bag me for saying them. incredible.

 

[_Wang_]

in 4 years we need to be in the 8. this would not be change for changes sake but change to take us further and better. who else is out there is a concern.

That is the thing man, lets hope that Dimma does a Bomber Thompson and it isnt a decision..