Hardwick outcoaches again

[carn tigez]

in 4 years we need to be in the 8. this would not be change for changes sake but change to take us further and better. who else is out there is a concern.

You do make some decent points, but I think people are really overlooking one glaring factor. We lack experience. Sure, most of the time 4 years is plenty of time to become a real contender, but remember where we started from. We weren't just deplorable, but we had no experienced veterans to guide us out of it. We were effectively a slightly more advanced expansion club in terms of our list structure, and look how long it's taking them to get up and going.

The number one thing to look at as you say is improvement. The fact we started with a 6 win season was in no way Dimma's fault, in fact I think most would agree that was a pretty decent effort considering the starting base and the fact we did it on the back of youth, and not mediocre 30 year old's. After that we have improved in terms of W/L each year, no one can dispute that. What many also believe, myself included, is that each year before this one we have definitely improved in terms of how we have played and our consistency.

It seems that most of the people calling for Hardwick's head are basing it primarily on this year and our supposed lack of further improvement. Given that it's round 8, we're 5-3 and our 2 substantial losses have been against 2 likely top 4 sides, both of which we lost in a quarter or less of play and were right in it outside of that, these judgements are premature and irrational. I think with these people, Hardwick is a victim of his own success. Last year we jumped ahead a long way from 2011, and people expected the same jump this year. The problem is, an equal jump would have had us probably making the top 4 and that's not a realistic expectation of a 4th year coach who took over such a deplorable list.

Yes we should make finals this year and that should be the expectation (barring injuries), should Hardwick be looked at if we don't? Absolutely. We are losing games, and there are reasons for this. The Hardwick detractors are very good at observing these reasons and good on them for that, genuinely, but I don't understand how they think this means Hardwick isn't up to it. If we didn't do anything wrong, we'd be winning every game we play. There are bound to be problems with our style and gameplan, as well as our personnel right up until we're a top 2 side (if that ever happens). Even then there will be issues. But that's because footy styles are a lot like rock-paper-scissors. If you pick rock every time and win, rock is the right selection and there are no issues. But no style is perfect and each has weaknesses and strengths, it's just that when you lose it and the other team wins a lot of people seem to draw the conclusion that the other team's gameplan is better.

So anyway, the point is, when we finish a season with a worse win-loss than the season previous, I will agree that Hardwick needs to be looked at. Or even if we were 3-5 at this stage of the season I could understand the concerns. But at 5-3 we are going along fine, unless you expected us to be a top 4 side this year (irrationally) this is where we should expect to be. 6-2 would be ahead of schedule, 4-4 slightly behind. Let's see what happens the next 2 games, I think that will tell us a lot about how this season will pan out for us.

 

[CoggaRules]

Case in point on why Dimma is behind the 8 ball...exhibit A - Daniel Jackson. Great at filling a role given to him..i.e the tag. yep and figures suggest he has been effective in minimising the possessions of given targets..but they still get it say 20 instead of 30 and the 20 are mint..on the other hand, Jackson continues to produce howlers that really shouldnt be seen on the field at the top level of the game..I mean, the piece of play yesterday, or more appropriately the piece of non play, where he takes a mark from a ball coming out of defence, has no less than 2 free players to give to, who are completely in the clear and would waltz the ball down the ground 50ms and into our F50, what does a leader of the club do? He takes the mark, puts the ball under his arm and ambles back with his back to the play, as if he is saying ok lets settle down here, we need a breather etc...I mean get real here dudes, I havent yet seen one player in the whole comp do this kind of school boy shit, and here we have a "vital" ingredient of our team producing another embarrassing howler. And to make matters worse, he actually thinks its an experienced piece of smart play....the coach should drop him to the 2s for that one incident, but he wont, because we cant afford it...and that is why we are where we are and will not progress much more than filling a spot in september for the sake of reputations..

 

[tigerT]

you say similar things to me and then bag me for saying them. incredible.

huh? Where did I bag you mate? I am agreeing with you and said as much a couple of pages back...

 

[theflea]

Hardwick has had 4 years. You would expect improvement after that. The coaching panel is young and I was hoping williams would have an impact, not sure is he has a direct coaching role more of a mentoring one. A measure of improvement is our competitiveness, for sure we are better but a measure of our improvment must be also the way the coaching staff improve players. I dont think the index is strong on this one. Ellis yes. You take someone like Grigg- no- he does not run defensively to pressure. I dont see improvements across the board in player improvement. To me that is a worry. For this you need to look at development coaches. I would like to see someone like allan richardson in the coaching dept- I have been vocal about this over the years- but he is now entrenched at pOrt. It is about putting the right people in the right places, I am not sure our fwd set up is working (this is nothing new) so you need to look at what the coaches are doing. The buck stops there. Hardwick has his favourites that is clear and jackson is one of them. tactically dimma needs to improve and I was happy the way we prepared for the port game and followed out instructions.

I still see another 2 years of turning the list over. We need to really structure up the list properly. We seem to have some good fwd prospects but where are the attacking hard nosed defenders? Is that why Griff is being played back? I dont see him as a defender and I would hate to lose him, but it seems that elton and mcbean are better fwd prospect goign fwds in the coaches eyes.

Game plan- we allow on average 2 kicks out before we man up- and then we want to zone into the midfeild and counter attack. Problem is we have blokes that do not man up in the guts- and good teams like collingwood and geelong can work through the centre easily with accuracy. Our backline is not ready for that. Rance I am not a fan of. He is one that has not improved. Has he beaten his opponent this year? I am not sure, but we do not have options going fwd. Darrou? Griff?

I am a big wrap for our efforts of the field. Like others here I have put my money up over the years (over 30 years now) and I want success. I could go on but these are my ramblings like others we have stabs at it but I am at times flabbergasted with common sense footy that goes missing.

I agree with some of this but to say hardwick has had 4 years(3 yrs and 8 games) with the same talent base is rubbish. He has had a reasonable team for a year and 8 games. You cant judge him on the first 2 years as that team was basically junk. Also just on the choco topic. I just dont understand why some think chocco would wouldnt help out with a gameplan POV. if there was a glaring basic issue to rectify, dont you think he would say so? They have plenty of IP from other recent successful clubs and experienced coaches so the onlu difference is the players. So from my POV we still have to have players over take those that we want gone from the team.

 

[cairo tiger]

I agree with some of this but to say hardwick has had 4 years(3 yrs and 8 games) with the same talent base is rubbish. He has had a reasonable team for a year and 8 games. You cant judge him on the first 2 years as that team was basically junk. Also just on the choco topic. I just dont understand why some think chocco would wouldnt help out with a gameplan POV. if there was a glaring basic issue to rectify, dont you think he would say so? They have plenty of IP from other recent successful clubs and experienced coaches so the onlu difference is the players. So from my POV we still have to have players over take those that we want gone from the team.

i say look at him after 4. for me and only me if we dont make the 8 then he has to take responsibility. lets wait until the season's end

 

[cairo tiger]

huh? Where did I bag you mate? I am agreeing with you and said as much a couple of pages back...

ok thanks mate- too many emails/ quotes

 

[cairo tiger]

Case in point on why Dimma is behind the 8 ball...exhibit A - Daniel Jackson. Great at filling a role given to him..i.e the tag. yep and figures suggest he has been effective in minimising the possessions of given targets..but they still get it say 20 instead of 30 and the 20 are mint..on the other hand, Jackson continues to produce howlers that really shouldnt be seen on the field at the top level of the game..I mean, the piece of play yesterday, or more appropriately the piece of non play, where he takes a mark from a ball coming out of defence, has no less than 2 free players to give to, who are completely in the clear and would waltz the ball down the ground 50ms and into our F50, what does a leader of the club do? He takes the mark, puts the ball under his arm and ambles back with his back to the play, as if he is saying ok lets settle down here, we need a breather etc...I mean get real here dudes, I havent yet seen one player in the whole comp do this kind of school boy shit, and here we have a "vital" ingredient of our team producing another embarrassing howler. And to make matters worse, he actually thinks its an experienced piece of smart play....the coach should drop him to the 2s for that one incident, but he wont, because we cant afford it...and that is why we are where we are and will not progress much more than filling a spot in september for the sake of reputations..

Look I could not agree more. but we have to have some balls. I am not sure that we dont have anyone to bring in. what about arnott? some others? a good team and a ballsy coach would send him back to the magoos for a few weeks. I think we are at that stage now. send a message to grigg and co to be accountable. we are still in easy ride mode for some of these blokes.

 

[cairo tiger]

You do make some decent points, but I think people are really overlooking one glaring factor. We lack experience. Sure, most of the time 4 years is plenty of time to become a real contender, but remember where we started from. We weren't just deplorable, but we had no experienced veterans to guide us out of it. We were effectively a slightly more advanced expansion club in terms of our list structure, and look how long it's taking them to get up and going.

The number one thing to look at as you say is improvement. The fact we started with a 6 win season was in no way Dimma's fault, in fact I think most would agree that was a pretty decent effort considering the starting base and the fact we did it on the back of youth, and not mediocre 30 year old's. After that we have improved in terms of W/L each year, no one can dispute that. What many also believe, myself included, is that each year before this one we have definitely improved in terms of how we have played and our consistency.

It seems that most of the people calling for Hardwick's head are basing it primarily on this year and our supposed lack of further improvement. Given that it's round 8, we're 5-3 and our 2 substantial losses have been against 2 likely top 4 sides, both of which we lost in a quarter or less of play and were right in it outside of that, these judgements are premature and irrational. I think with these people, Hardwick is a victim of his own success. Last year we jumped ahead a long way from 2011, and people expected the same jump this year. The problem is, an equal jump would have had us probably making the top 4 and that's not a realistic expectation of a 4th year coach who took over such a deplorable list.

Yes we should make finals this year and that should be the expectation (barring injuries), should Hardwick be looked at if we don't? Absolutely. We are losing games, and there are reasons for this. The Hardwick detractors are very good at observing these reasons and good on them for that, genuinely, but I don't understand how they think this means Hardwick isn't up to it. If we didn't do anything wrong, we'd be winning every game we play. There are bound to be problems with our style and gameplan, as well as our personnel right up until we're a top 2 side (if that ever happens). Even then there will be issues. But that's because footy styles are a lot like rock-paper-scissors. If you pick rock every time and win, rock is the right selection and there are no issues. But no style is perfect and each has weaknesses and strengths, it's just that when you lose it and the other team wins a lot of people seem to draw the conclusion that the other team's gameplan is better.

So anyway, the point is, when we finish a season with a worse win-loss than the season previous, I will agree that Hardwick needs to be looked at. Or even if we were 3-5 at this stage of the season I could understand the concerns. But at 5-3 we are going along fine, unless you expected us to be a top 4 side this year (irrationally) this is where we should expect to be. 6-2 would be ahead of schedule, 4-4 slightly behind. Let's see what happens the next 2 games, I think that will tell us a lot about how this season will pan out for us.

all valid points. my point is lets look at him after the end of the season. for me there is no reason why these blokes cant make the 8 and I am now over the lets give it some time scenario, we have blokes in the maggoos we can bring up. it was unfortunate tuck got injured but where is the development in gearing players for this midfield role? I am happy we are 5-3 and could have been 6-2 but I stand by what I said, for me it is top 8 or bust for dimma and I like the bloke!

 

[CoggaRules]

all valid points. my point is lets look at him after the end of the season. for me there is no reason why these blokes cant make the 8 and I am now over the lets give it some time scenario, we have blokes in the maggoos we can bring up. it was unfortunate tuck got injured but where is the development in gearing players for this midfield role? I am happy we are 5-3 and could have been 6-2 but I stand by what I said, for me it is top 8 or bust for dimma and I like the bloke!

Yeah but IMO, top 8 is in effect 8th...and for me the pass mark of 8th is below where I would put the line for a pass, considering our draw, our additional resources, in terms of free agents and our depth...by and large over the stretch you could fall into 8th spot by default and it means shit in big picture terms..look at Norf for a clear indication on that kind of shit...tipping that it would even be worse if Dimma gets the tigers to 8th and then we get obliterated in our 1 finals game.

 

[theflea]

i say look at him after 4. for me and only me if we dont make the 8 then he has to take responsibility. lets wait until the season's end

Sure but for me hes contracted until next year so leave it at that, then assess at the end of the year. That will be 5 years at the helm and we will know within a reasonable time frame how he's gone.

 

[_RT_]

i say look at him after 4. for me and only me if we dont make the 8 then he has to take responsibility. lets wait until the season's end

IMO Hardwick needs at least 2 years with this group to see if he has what it takes. Getting rid of him at the end of this year when we may be unlucky to miss the 8 is too much of a knee jerk reaction and the type of thing we did in the past. Geelong showed Thompson loyalty(albeit they had had some earlier success) and he launched the Cats dynasty 12 months later. I'm not saying Hardwick is going to do the same with us(hope he does) but he needs to see out the current contract before any decision is made on his position.

 

[cairo tiger]

IMO Hardwick needs at least 2 years with this group to see if he has what it takes. Getting rid of him at the end of this year when we may be unlucky to miss the 8 is too much of a knee jerk reaction and the type of thing we did in the past. Geelong showed Thompson loyalty(albeit they had had some earlier success) and he launched the Cats dynasty 12 months later. I'm not saying Hardwick is going to do the same with us(hope he does) but he needs to see out the current contract before any decision is made on his position.

ok lets accept mediocrity then, geez we are not going to go fwd with a shell be right mate attitude, our organization needs to be ACCOUNTABLE. this is the reason why we play blokes like grigg and jackson, they wont get better but they wont get worse. they are ok. paul bulluss types. I am sick of this mediocrity.

 

[_RT_]

ok lets accept mediocrity then, geez we are not going to go fwd with a shell be right mate attitude, our organization needs to be ACCOUNTABLE. this is the reason why we play blokes like grigg and jackson, they wont get better but they wont get worse. they are ok. paul bulluss types. I am sick of this mediocrity.

Far from accepting mediocrity I think my thread about the difference shows that. What I'm saying is that this year is the first real season that Hardwick has had a list capable of challenging for the 8, which is a fair effort when you consider that at this stage of his first season we were worse than Fitzroy according to most. For mine you give him 2 years with this list to see if he can at least make the 8 and show something if we do. If he doesn't then towards the end of next year you sit back and assess whether it's time to make a move or not.

I go back to Thompson at Geelong after finals first season it wasn't until his 5th year that they got back into the finals as he rebuilt the list. We're in the same sort of position Geelong were except that we're coming from further back than Geelong were. IMO 2 years for a coach with a group is enough to see if they can achieve something, 1 season is just too quick to make judgement, especially if we were to end up missing for a reason out of Hardwicks control.

 

[Stylo]

ok lets accept mediocrity then, geez we are not going to go fwd with a shell be right mate attitude, our organization needs to be ACCOUNTABLE.

No doubt that's what the head of every Richmond administration in the past 30 years has said, which has led to knee jerk reactions and poor management of personnel. No offence, but I'm glad you're not in charge. If we got rid of Dimma at the end of this year it would be a huge step backward in our club's development.

I'm very, very confident he's the man to take us forward.

 

[theflea]

No doubt that's what the head of every Richmond administration in the past 30 years has said, which has led to knee jerk reactions and poor management of personnel. No offence, but I'm glad you're not in charge. If we got rid of Dimma at the end of this year it would be a huge step backward in our club's development.

I'm very, very confident he's the man to take us forward.

Imo let him have the 5 years and at the end of that year we will know if he is the right man for the job.

 

[Bruce Monteath]

No doubt that's what the head of every Richmond administration in the past 30 years has said, which has led to knee jerk reactions and poor management of personnel. No offence, but I'm glad you're not in charge. If we got rid of Dimma at the end of this year it would be a huge step backward in our club's development.

I'm very, very confident he's the man to take us forward.

Stylo, you're not a rookie here and I respect your opinion. What makes you so confident Dimma is the right man for the job? To be clear, I am not saying he is not, I am just not as confident as you that he is.

I see incremental improvement over a number of years that could be attributed to our improved drafting alone as much as anything else.

I can see the faint outline of a style of play he is coaching too but I am yet to see a clearly defined game plan that marks the best teams in the competition. I concede this could be due to the young age of our squad who are yet to completely adapt to his teaching.

I also believe he should be given time to learn the ropes as a first time coach and I was very happy Choc came on board to provide some mentoring.

Where I see it, at such a critical phase of our redevelopment, there can be no harm in reviewing Dimma's tenure at the end of this year.

 

[Stylo]

Stylo, you're not a rookie here and I respect your opinion. What makes you so confident Dimma is the right man for the job? To be clear, I am not saying he is not, I am just not as confident as you that he is.

I see incremental improvement over a number of years that could be attributed to our improved drafting alone as much as anything else.

I can see the faint outline of a style of play he is coaching too but I am yet to see a clearly defined game plan that marks the best teams in the competition. I concede this could be due to the young age of our squad who are yet to completely adapt to his teaching.

I also believe he should be given time to learn the ropes as a first time coach and I was very happy Choc came on board to provide some mentoring.

Where I see it, at such a critical phase of our redevelopment, there can be no harm in reviewing Dimma's tenure at the end of this year.

Fair points all of them, I spose my confidence is part evidence based and part faith based. The main thing fuelling my faith is that in my lifetime, I've never seen such a comprehensive overhaul of a club's culture both on field and off, in such a short period of time. We were literally on death's door at the end of 2009. Now, if we knock off the Dons on the weekend, we're outside the top 4 on percentage near halfway through the season. Just a massive turnaround for the club. Gale and March are partly responsible, but for the on field stuff I think Dimma deserves much of the credit. He's committed himself to the long process of getting us back to where we belong, and he knows exactly what needs to be done. It just takes time.
In some ways Dimma and his relationship with the players reminds me of the Northey years, and we all know what happened there. I don't want to see a repeat.

I do have my reservations regarding his match day coaching, as most of us do. But he's a young coach, and with an experienced head like Chocco in the box with him now, I think he can only improve. He makes baffling moves on occasion, but has also shown he can mix it with the best at times. I think even now you can see noticeable improvement in his match day coaching from when he started. We've got to remember that he's working with a young and very inexperienced list as well. Even many of the mature players we have in the side are imports who would still be learning the game plan just like the youngest kids.

Consider, if we'd had a coach like Malthouse since 2010 instead of Dimma, do you think we'd be performing any better now? I don't. Around the same level for mine. A puppet master is only as effective as his puppets really. Some would argue he wouldn't have been a lenient with 'duds' like Jackson and McGuane as Dimma has, but who's to say he wouldn't have replaced them with even bigger duds like Bootsma. And as our younger core personnel mature, the only way is up really.

I guess the bottom line for me is it'd be just like the Richmond of old to kick out a coach like Dimma without at the very least letting him see out his tenure. If we go and lose every match for the year from here and finish bottom 4 then I wouldn't be against a review, but even then, giving him the sack would send a shockwave through the club and set us back greatly IMO.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

ok lets accept mediocrity then, geez we are not going to go fwd with a shell be right mate attitude, our organization needs to be ACCOUNTABLE. this is the reason why we play blokes like grigg and jackson, they wont get better but they wont get worse. they are ok. paul bulluss types. I am sick of this mediocrity.

How are we not going forward?

We have won more games every year under Hardwick

We have increased our percentage every year under Hardwick

We have turned over nearly 3/4 of our list under Hardwick

We have gone from having a first 22 we struggled to fill, to a first 22 with competition for positions under Hardwick

We have gone from being notorious for being the worst kicking side in the AFL to having a team where the bulk of our first 22 are good kicks

We have gone from being notorious for circle work and coughing up the ball on our HB line, to being noted for being one of the most attacking running sides who actually generate their attack off HB.

But no, we is shit, life sucks, and the coach should be sacked. BTW, Graeme Richmond is calling you from 1982, and he wants his policy on how to run a footy club into the ground returned to him.

I get being frustrated, be we have actually delivered legitimate improvements every year under Hardwick, and the only people who are not seeing it are the We Love Wallace Fan Club, and the dozen or so opposition trolls who still go on about us rattling cans. Everyone else is acknowledging we are improving, the only debate is the degree.

 

[CoggaRules]

Stylo, you're not a rookie here and I respect your opinion. What makes you so confident Dimma is the right man for the job? To be clear, I am not saying he is not, I am just not as confident as you that he is.

I see incremental improvement over a number of years that could be attributed to our improved drafting alone as much as anything else.

I can see the faint outline of a style of play he is coaching too but I am yet to see a clearly defined game plan that marks the best teams in the competition. I concede this could be due to the young age of our squad who are yet to completely adapt to his teaching.

I also believe he should be given time to learn the ropes as a first time coach and I was very happy Choc came on board to provide some mentoring.

Where I see it, at such a critical phase of our redevelopment, there can be no harm in reviewing Dimma's tenure at the end of this year.

The issue I have when talking about this alleged game plan is that if there were a game plan, I would suggest the plan would take in how we come out of defence, where we head for on the spread and how we enter the F50....now forgive me if I have missed something, but if there is any remote semblance of a plan, when we enter our F50 then I give up....I mean if that is what we interpret as a plan then we are in the deepest of shit...

 

[carn tigez]

The issue I have when talking about this alleged game plan is that if there were a game plan, I would suggest the plan would take in how we come out of defence, where we head for on the spread and how we enter the F50....now forgive me if I have missed something, but if there is any remote semblance of a plan, when we enter our F50 then I give up....I mean if that is what we interpret as a plan then we are in the deepest of shit...

Well this year we're scoring a goal from 28% of our forward 50 entries. I heard the commentators say during the Melbourne game that the best sides score a goal from about 30% of their inside 50's. So I don't think it's as big a deal as we think it is. I mean, how often do we get outmarked inside 50? Very rarely. We do hit leading targets contrary to what a lot of people think, I know it was against the Dees but we hit King, McGuane, Riewoldt twice, Vickery twice, Martin and Morris all on leads inside 50. There may have been more I'm not sure, but the way the game is played these days makes it very hard to lead inside 50 successfully, so the result against Melbourne wasn't bad.

 

[cairo tiger]

How are we not going forward?

We have won more games every year under Hardwick

We have increased our percentage every year under Hardwick

We have turned over nearly 3/4 of our list under Hardwick

does not mean we have selected the right players it about developing them

We have gone from having a first 22 we struggled to fill, to a first 22 with competition for positions under Hardwick

had to happen anyway by turning the list over

We have gone from being notorious for being the worst kicking side in the AFL to having a team where the g of our first 22 are good kicks

you have really lost me on this point. rance. jackson. grigg. geez.

We have gone from being notorious for circle work and coughing up the ball on our HB line, to being noted for being one of the most attacking running sides who actually generate their attack off HB.

But no, we is shit, life sucks, and the coach should be sacked. BTW, Graeme Richmond is calling you from 1982, and he wants his policy on how to run a footy club into the ground returned to him.

I get being frustrated, be we have actually delivered legitimate improvements every year under Hardwick, and the only people who are not seeing it are the We Love Wallace Fan Club, and the dozen or so opposition trolls who still go on about us rattling cans. Everyone else is acknowledging we are improving, the only debate is the degree.

I say we have improved but the development of the players is a case in point.
Fwd entries are glaringly poor.
We still have players who are not skilled at some basics.
Everyone needs to be accountable for me at least not finishing in the 8 this year is reason to look at our coaches and personnel.

 

[turtle27]

I say we have improved but the development of the players is a case in point.
Fwd entries are glaringly poor.
We still have players who are not skilled at some basics.
Everyone needs to be accountable for me at least not finishing in the 8 this year is reason to look at our coaches and personnel.

What if we win 13 games with a % of 110 and miss the 8? Entirely possible.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I say we have improved but the development of the players is a case in point.
Fwd entries are glaringly poor.
We still have players who are not skilled at some basics.
Everyone needs to be accountable for me at least not finishing in the 8 this year is reason to look at our coaches and personnel.

You named THREE players as not having a gun kick out of how many? COnsidering our list used to have three good kicks full stop, this is a massive improvement.

What people like yourself need to remember is a premiership side isn't made of 18 Deledio or Cotchin types. You have jobbers and role players who are not sexy, but perform their role as required.

If you want a perfect list, how does sacking Hardwick help that anyway?


More importantly, can you explain to me how sacking coaches due to impatience is now going to work for us, when it worked so bloody brilliantly for us in the 80's and 90's? It's views like this which is why the cliche of RFC supporters eating our own exists.

 

[tigers_of_old_08]

IMO Hardwick needs at least 2 years with this group to see if he has what it takes. YUP. Getting rid of him at the end of this year when we may be unlucky to miss the 8 is too much of a knee jerk reaction and the type of thing we did in the past. Geelong showed Thompson loyalty(albeit they had had some earlier success) and he launched the Cats dynasty 12 months later. I'm not saying Hardwick is going to do the same with us(hope he does) but he needs to see out the current contract before any decision is made on his position.

Bombers first 4 years as coach:
1st yr: 5th
2nd yr: 12th
3rd yr: 9th
4th yr: 12th

While Malthouse got the Pies in the top 8 just twice in his first 6 years as coach.

And these coaches are arguably two of the most sought-after / successful in recent times.

 

[turtle27]

You named THREE players as not having a gun kick out of how many? COnsidering our list used to have three good kicks full stop, this is a massive improvement.

What people like yourself need to remember is a premiership side isn't made of 18 Deledio or Cotchin types. You have jobbers and role players who are not sexy, but perform their role as required.

If you want a perfect list, how does sacking Hardwick help that anyway?


More importantly, can you explain to me how sacking coaches due to impatience is now going to work for us, when it worked so bloody brilliantly for us in the 80's and 90's? It's views like this which is why the cliche of RFC supporters eating our own exists.

And given Rancey's disposal efficiency is 83%, he should probably look elsewhere. Cotchin's is 62%.