News Hardwick Quits as coach of Richmond: Press Conference at 10:30am Tuesday

[Daka]

Did Hardwick and Richmond genuinely think they were in the flag zone? Wowee

People said we needed to rebuild after 2016... things can change quickly in football if you get a few appointments right.

People also said Collingwood was a basket-case before McRae got to the club after they had that famous fire-sale.

 

[#23 Hill]

Wish I could quit my job whenever I had "nothing left in the tank" What a life it would be.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I’m not trolling at all and there’s absolutely nothing in what I wrote to suggest I am - it’s in your head.

Yeah you think your club has got it all right, of course you do.

Somehow Richmond thought they were still in the premiership window which they are not - their senior coach has said as much just 10 weeks in.

So they need to rebuild.

As has been shown time and time again, the only way to build a quality list is through lots of draft picks in the first two rounds.

No matter how Taranto and Hopper perform, to part with four of these picks is a massive price to pay for a club entering a rebuild. It could potentially set it back considerably.

Hawthorn did it and absolutely bombed.

Your post is not all wrong but it is wrong to infer Richmond's list does not contain a load of 1st and 2nd round picks.

I will omit the players with no real residual value due to age like Tarrant, Cotchin and Riewoldt.

Drafted First Round

pick 3 Martin 31yo

pick 8 Prestia 30yo

pick 11 Lynch 30yo

pick 9 Vlastuin 29yo

pick 7 Hopper 26yo

pick 15 D Rioli 26yo

pick 2 Taranto 25yo

pick 21 Dow 21yo

pick 9 Gibcus 20yo

pick 17 Brown 19yo


Drafted Second Round

pick 31 McIntosh 29yo

pick 35 Nankervis 28yo

pick 29 Bolton 24yo

pick 25 Balta 23yo

pick 40 Ryan 22yo

pick 43 Ross 22yo

pick 43 Cumberland 22yo

pick 27 Sonsie 20yo

pick 28 Banks 20yo

pick 30 Clarke 19yo

Bolded are the marquee wage level players, or likely future one in Balta's case.


10 x first round picks average age 25 yrs 7 months, 10 x second round picks average age 23yo. Only 6 of those 20 players are older than 26.


Other players of 1st or 2nd round value:

Short 27yo

Baker 25yo

Graham 25yo



This is not a list requiring rebuilding. It has some problems to solve like most clubs, but high draft picks are definitely not the only way to solve those problems.

 

[revo333]

The 2012 GF loss is irrelevant though. They win against the Swans and there's no guarantee they come close the next year. You gotta win 3 in a row to be close to 4 in a row.

Enough players have said losing 2012 gave them the motivation for winning 3 in a row.

I still think they would have won another 2 if they won 2012 but most likely not in a row.

 

[SSSSSS]

Props for Dimma falling on his sword.

He's left the list in an absolute shambles though. Reminiscent of the crazy Clarko era.

 

[My Tilly]

Wish I could quit my job whenever I had "nothing left in the tank" What a life it would be.

Considering he's leaving $1.5 million on the table . . . depressing reality for the rest of us.

 

[OniAu]

So like most coaches?

Nah not really , absolute petulant behaviour about him. Like the Longmire thing , gets personal. Heaps different to other coaches

 

[DopeMaster]

2009-2016
Dimma spins his wheels, almost gets fired.

2017
Crag McRae joins Richmond. Their gamestyle changes.

2017-2020
Richmond win Three flags.

2020
Craig McRae

Craig Mcrae

Age

50

Ht

176cm

Wt

73kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.9

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.9

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

1.9

4star

G

1.2

4star

No current season stats available

D

16.2

4star

K

10.6

4star

HB

5.6

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.2

3star

G

1.4

5star

leaves Richmond.

2021-2023
Richmond become irrelevant again. Dimma resigns.

Coincidence?

 

[Footy Smarts]

Didn't Geelong do this for years, trading in players and then won a flag last year?

No we didn't trade out of multiple drafts for good but not great players with limited versatility.

Apart from Dangerfield and Cameron the highest pick we traded was pick 17 and most other trades were late picks, downgrades, etc. And we received significant picks for Kelly, Motlop, Clark and taking on Bowes' contract. We've probably received similar pick value from them as we've traded out.

Right now Taranto and Hopper are on track to cost Richmond more than what Dangerfield and Cameron cost Geelong. But keep telling everyone how great a deal it is and how it's just doing that Geelong did!

 

[Daka]

2009-2016
Dimma spins his wheels, almost gets fired.

2017
Crag McRae joins Richmond. Their gamestyle changes.

2017-2020
Richmond win Three flags.

2020
Craig McRae leaves Richmond.

2021-2023
Richmond become irrelevant again. Dimma resigns.

Coincidence?

Leppitsch also came back in 2017 and left in 2020.
had a 1 year off before joining the Pies.

McRae was an assistant at the Hawks in 2021 and they did nothing good in that year?

So, is it Leppa or McRae or both?
If Collingwood don't win the Premiership in 2023 it will go down as the biggest choke in history.

 

[dean33]

Leppitsch also came back in 2017 and left in 2020.
had a 1 year off before joining the Pies.

McRae was an assistant at the Hawks in 2021 and they did nothing good in that year?

So, is it Leppa or McRae or both?
If Collingwood don't win the Premiership in 2023 it will go down as the biggest choke in history.

Leppa will be offered and accept the Richmond coaching job at the start of the finals series. He’ll depart Collingwood straight away and they’ll subsequently bomb out of the finals in straight sets.
It will happen and it will be beautiful.

 

[DopeMaster]

Leppitsch also came back in 2017 and left in 2020.
had a 1 year off before joining the Pies.

McRae was an assistant at the Hawks in 2021 and they did nothing good in that year?

So, is it Leppa or McRae or both?
If Collingwood don't win the Premiership in 2023 it will go down as the biggest choke in history.

Good point. Well the driving force behind Richmond’s dramatic turnaround and period of success could be either McRae or Leppa I suppose, and perhaps even both as a combination. You’ll notice None of options A, B or C in this hypothetical are Hardwick.

 

[Daka]

Good point. Well the driving force behind Richmond’s dramatic turnaround and period of success could be either McRae or Leppa I suppose, and perhaps even both as a combination. You’ll notice None of options A, B or C in this hypothetical are Hardwick.

I think McRae is very much in the Mould of Hardwick a man manager has very good relationships with the players & the players love playing for him.

Leppa is very much a strategic coach who has had success as defense & forward line coach, make no mistake their is a reason he is "Head of Strategy and defence" at Collingwood.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Your post is not all wrong but it is wrong to infer Richmond's list does not contain a load of 1st and 2nd round picks.

I will omit the players with no real residual value due to age like Tarrant, Cotchin and Riewoldt.

Drafted First Round

pick 3 Martin 31yo

pick 8 Prestia 30yo

pick 11 Lynch 30yo

pick 9 Vlastuin 29yo

pick 7 Hopper 26yo

pick 15 D Rioli 26yo

pick 2 Taranto 25yo

pick 21 Dow 21yo

pick 9 Gibcus 20yo

pick 17 Brown 19yo


Drafted Second Round

pick 31 McIntosh 29yo

pick 35 Nankervis 28yo

pick 29 Bolton 24yo

pick 25 Balta 23yo

pick 40 Ryan 22yo

pick 43 Ross 22yo

pick 43 Cumberland 22yo

pick 27 Sonsie 20yo

pick 28 Banks 20yo

pick 30 Clarke 19yo

Bolded are the marquee wage level players, or likely future one in Balta's case.


10 x first round picks average age 25 yrs 7 months, 10 x second round picks average age 23yo. Only 6 of those 20 players are older than 26.


Other players of 1st or 2nd round value:

Short 27yo

Baker 25yo

Graham 25yo



This is not a list requiring rebuilding. It has some problems to solve like most clubs, but high draft picks are definitely not the only way to solve those problems.

It's amazing how unbalanced the players under say 28 are on that list.

Short, Baker, Graham, Clarke, Banks, Sonsie, Cumberland, Ross, Ryan, Balta, Bolton, Brown, Gibcus, Dow, Taranto, Rioli, Hopper.

17 players. Only 3 are above 188cm. It's staggering how little Richmond have invested in talls.

And the smalls are remarkably vanilla. Where are the natural forwards? Where's the flair? The creativity? The game breakers? You better hope Bolton and Rioli end up hall of fame types and Cumberland makes it because there are a lot of honest triers in that lot.

 

[BF Tiger]

You could say this exact same thing about all 18 clubs... ?

Go ahead then.

 

[Daka]

It's amazing how unbalanced the players under say 28 are on that list.

Short, Baker, Graham, Clarke, Banks, Sonsie, Cumberland, Ross, Ryan, Balta, Bolton, Brown, Gibcus, Dow, Taranto, Rioli, Hopper.

17 players. Only 3 are above 188cm. It's staggering how little Richmond have invested in talls.

And the smalls are remarkably vanilla. Where are the natural forwards? Where's the flair? The creativity? The game breakers? You better hope Bolton and Rioli end up hall of fame types and Cumberland makes it because there are a lot of honest triers in that lot.

Every club's list has holes even the Pies who are on top of the ladder have no elite key forward. even in 2017 when we had the mosquito fleet, we still had a peak JR.

Geelong's list aren't exactly spring chickens not sure you should be talking about Richmond all your best players are 30+ you have been smacked in the midfield the last two weeks by Richmond & Fremantle who aren't exactly flying on-field.

You can say Richmond sold their future by getting two ready-made players, but you guys are going to literally have to do the exact same thing you think you're going to replace Hawkins & Cameron, Smith, Dangerfield, Stewart with 18 year old draft kids?

 

[BF Tiger]

I call bullshit on being mentally drained he went all in on a flag and went well can't win one

Might as well get a nice payout then try ay another club

Payout? For quitting? Good one.

 

[BF Tiger]

Dimma is only 50 so he could come back to coach Richmond after they undergo four or five failed five year plans

Is that the same number Brisbane are up to now?

 

[BF Tiger]

You're just making up numbers for their salaries and then just making up they're heavily backended. The salaries bandied around in the media are normally always highly exaggerated to make a better story.

Great. So we can assume that Taranto and Hopper are on far less than what the media have reported. You’re the one telling us “the salaries bandied around in the media are normally always highly exaggerated to make a better story”.

 

[BF Tiger]

Geelong doesn't have a single player contracted beyond 2025. So I'm pretty sure they'll have more freedom than Richmond.

There’s talent that Richmond can target. The best talent in the league if we listen to Geelong supporters.

 

[MightyTiger]

I’m not trolling at all and there’s absolutely nothing in what I wrote to suggest I am - it’s in your head.

Yeah you think your club has got it all right, of course you do.

Somehow Richmond thought they were still in the premiership window which they are not - their senior coach has said as much just 10 weeks in.

So they need to rebuild.

As has been shown time and time again, the only way to build a quality list is through lots of draft picks in the first two rounds.

No matter how Taranto and Hopper perform, to part with four of these picks is a massive price to pay for a club entering a rebuild. It could potentially set it back considerably.

Hawthorn did it and absolutely bombed.

I think it's less about premiership window with the current group and more to do with the fact that Hardwicks gameplan/coaching has just gotten stale, what ever he was trying to implement over the past couple of years just hadn't been working. We still have a very very good core group of young players, we have emerging talent and some older players that have 2-3-4 years left in them to guide the upcoming youth, yes we gave away 4 picks for 2 players, but we also heavily invested in the prior 2-3 drafts in youth, if you actually look at the players coming through it was a calculated risk but I think one that was well worth making, Taranto and Hopper are in the perfect age bracket, have many many good years left ahead of them and will form the core group of players going ahead to carry this club to hopefully more success in the future.

We only have to look at clubs like yours, Carlton, GWS, GCS and every other club that has spent the majority of the last 15 years at the bottom of the ladder to know that drafting every top kid in the land is going to bring you success, heck our own club even went through it with how we did things and our drafting when Dimma took over.

 

[mrposhman]

It's amazing how unbalanced the players under say 28 are on that list.

Short, Baker, Graham, Clarke, Banks, Sonsie, Cumberland, Ross, Ryan, Balta, Bolton, Brown, Gibcus, Dow, Taranto, Rioli, Hopper.

17 players. Only 3 are above 188cm. It's staggering how little Richmond have invested in talls.

And the smalls are remarkably vanilla. Where are the natural forwards? Where's the flair? The creativity? The game breakers? You better hope Bolton and Rioli end up hall of fame types and Cumberland makes it because there are a lot of honest triers in that lot.

You've missed a whole heap out, we have 28 players that are 26 and under on our list so frankly you seem to be making an argument up to support whatever point you are trying to make.

There is 1 clear area we have failed to draft (and its the 1 part of your post that is truthful) and thats tall forwards. In terms of players that are already best 22 or borderline best 22 (and will replace some of our aging players this year and into the future), we have a fairly good base to move forwards.

Defence - Balta (23), Gibcus (20), Young (24), Rioli (26) and Baker (25). Solid foundation, with the mediums we still have Broad (who I hope doesn't leave) and Vlastuin in the older group but with years left, and a 1st rounder in Tom Brown that we haven't seen yet at AFL level but hopes are high.
Midfield - Taranto (25), Hopper (26), Bolton (24), Ross (22), Sonsie (20) - A touch thin, but a solid base
Rucks - Ryan (22) - Very impressed with him so far, had a great first 10 games
Forwards - This is the 1 area that we haven't really drafted much, the only 1's that are borderline Best 22 at the moment are Cumberland (22), Maurice Rioli (20) and Clarke (19)

We have some kids that we will assess but clearly the forward line is the issue (and thats been evident in the way that we have played this year particularly after Lynch got injured, but my point is there is a solid base there. We haven't yet seen exactly what our draftees from 2021 can provide yet but some upside in that group, and a good couple of drafts / trade periods could swing the list upwards very quickly.

We aren't in as bad a position as people seem to suggest.

 

[zorbacles]

Wish I could quit my job whenever I had "nothing left in the tank" What a life it would be.

you can quit when there is nothing left in the tank, provided there isnt nothing left in the bank

 

[#23 Hill]

you can quit when there is nothing left in the tank, provided there isnt nothing left in the bank

Paycheck-to-paycheck, Zorbacles.

 

[Footy Smarts]

You can say Richmond sold their future by getting two ready-made players, but you guys are going to literally have to do the exact same thing you think you're going to replace Hawkins & Cameron, Smith, Dangerfield, Stewart with 18 year old draft kids?

Geelong will hit the wall with the current old guys some time soon. And we will look to bring in quality mature talent. But I'm confident we won't overpay either in salary or draft picks to bring in experienced players or be so unbalanced in list development.

But most importantly we've invested heavily in the draft recently. We have 7 top 25 draft picks from the last 4 drafts on our list. Our injury issues have given them a chance to get experience with 35 games played by under 21 year olds so far this year.

You might've missed it but due to injuries Geelong had the 5 youngest players starting on the field against Richmond and the younger sub. We didn't take our chances but it wasn't a particularly one sided game. We're developing kids while still being 4th favourite for the flag so if we get over our injury issues the footy public think we're still a real chance at the flag this year.

Contrast that to Richmond who have far fewer early draftees over that time and only had 16 games played by under 21s so far this year. Yet the season off already a write off. And this is despite giving up this year's 1st rounder and benefiting from Taranto and Hopper already being in your team.