Injury Harris Andrews injury updates :(

[M Malice]

I watched an episode of ER once

I am from the MASH era, you can call me HawkeyeBJ.

Goodbye farewell and amen.

 

[Saucery]

I don't think it is attempted murder.. He obviously wanted Andrews to "earn" it, probably what his coach says to make him second guess going for those intercepts.

Sorry, should have used '' icon to show I was being a bit hyperbolic.

I was just pointing out how showing:

"conduct unbecoming and likely to prejudice the interest of the AFL and bringing the game into disrepute"

is somehow so much more concerning to city hall than extremely dangerous game day tactics.

Ben got 52 weeks for that. It's 10 times the punishment a know thug will get.

 

[Berrygood]

One can only hope so but the track record of the AFL on this sort of stuff has been soft as butter in recent times. Cameron is a serial offender and broke 18 year old Rhys Matheson's jaw in 2016...he has form and this will probably not even be given any consideration.

Exactly what i was going to say. He has form re matho for this and other striking visits to the tribunal. Surely this has to be taken into account and the suspension compounded accordingly.

 

[Football Pope]

A building full of doctors and testing equiptment. The doctor cannot see inside the head, so he is ultimately only guessing nothing is wrong....as it turns out, Harris had a bleed on the brain.

He should've gone to hospital after the incident imo (and others)

Dunno...I fell of a ladder and knocked my head on the concrete house stump...Holiday time so home alone I don't know how long I was out but I tried to get up and felt dazed and couldn't stand up.... Had no feeling in my feet so I crawled inside, much to the dogs delight being at his level, tried to lie down on the couch.. but couldn't.. I went through a sick giddy feeling as I tried to lie down...So I sat just looking at the TV for hours..not sure if it was even on...

Later when I had feeling in my feet took myself to hospital..I spent several hours just being observed before I had scans later that night..got the all clear and went home...2 days later I started to get the giddiness back and nauseous and numbness in my right foot I had an appointment booked at the docs the next day so thought i would wait ..Doc abused me for not coming in sooner and sent me straight to hospital...Had scans that showed I had bleeding on the brain.. Was admitted into hospital and kept there... Scared shitless and confused really didn't know what was going on....

Lucky.. I didn't require surgery ...About as close as it gets to having a stroke without having one ..Side effects I have no smell or taste and a loss with some memory....i.e General day to day phone convo's are the worse I write 'em down then cant remember what it was about which is painful....and the worst is I just don't remember friends or neighbours names....

 

[a mayes ing]

Dunno...I fell of a ladder and knocked my head on the concrete house stump...Holiday time so home alone I don't know how long I was out but I tried to get up and felt dazed and couldn't stand up.... Had no feeling in my feet so I crawled inside, much to the dogs delight being at his level, tried to lie down on the couch.. but couldn't.. I went through a sick giddy feeling as I tried to lie down...So I sat just looking at the TV for hours..not sure if it was even on...

Later when I had feeling in my feet took myself to hospital..I spent several hours just being observed before I had scans later that night..got the all clear and went home...2 days later I started to get the giddiness back and nauseous and numbness in my right foot I had an appointment booked at the docs the next day so thought i would wait ..Doc abused me for not coming in sooner and sent me straight to hospital...Had scans that showed I had bleeding on the brain.. Was admitted into hospital and kept there... Scared shitless and confused really didn't know what was going on....

Lucky.. I didn't require surgery ...About as close as it gets to having a stroke without having one ..Side effects I have no smell or taste and a loss with some memory....i.e General day to day phone convo's are the worse I write 'em down then cant remember what it was about which is painful....and the worst is I just don't remember friends or neighbours names....

Do you know if yours was a "minor" bleed like Andrews or a "significant" bleed?

 

[Gadzorks]

Im sorry I was crude in my reply. Im tired of working every day with people who think they absolutely know better because they googled a few terms and their friend told them something. If you are a lawyer and your client decides Dobbo from down the street knows better you can say your client is hostile and leave. If you are an accountant and your client decides to commit fraud you just leave and let the tax man know. If my patient decides they will listen to their faith healer woo-woo healing crystal lady neighbour than myself I am obligated to spend hours of my day making sure this person knows exactly what the **** they are in for and try to convince them to stay otherwise you know this person is going to come back 6 months from now with a giant fungating cancer and a lawyer suing you for not trying harder to convince this snowflake that magic beans wont make their breast cancer disappear. Cancer sucks but people can suck more.

Righto - agree totally that doctors do fabulous work and get frustrated by people looking for answers on their own. I'm pro- vaccine and under the constant care of specialists who I trust implicitly. I do what they tell me when they tell me.

But there is another side to that storyline. Doctors, even the smartest and most experienced with the best intentions can and do miss stuff. Like someone being on warfarin for 18 years, having surgery, staying in hospital for ten days with the drug being administered by drip and then being released with written direction specifically not to take warfarin. Dead in under 48 hours. That was my mum at age 46. It wasn't due to lack of technology, just human error. If we'd have had access to the internet and been your despised look for solutions people, well we might have questioned that surgeon more, or sought an immediate second opinion. Wouldn't that have been great. So, yes, as you said 'people can suck more' but doctors are people too.

The UQ brain institute currently openly state that no one really understands concussion ATM. They have a project going where they are mapping the brains of elite athletes so if those athletes ever suffer a concussion they can look for changes. Given the involvement of Justin Clark Afl players might be included and Harris might be among their athletes. They take saliva swabs and scans of concussion sufferers every few days after a concussion to try to further the medical understanding of concussion and it effects. Given that, if Harris was my son (he'd make his own decisions but) I'd be hoping he would sit the rest of a crap season out for two reasons 1-Just in case cause the experts admit not knowing everything and 2- it may add years to his career length. Be a shame to cop another knock this year given the known accumulative nature of concussion and it's always possible.

Today has been a day of too much sharing. Goodnight.

 

[Berrygood]

I do wish harris all the very best. Be it 2 weeks, 6 weeks or the rest of the season off, take whatever time you need to get right. Your long term health is far more important than a game. I'd also like to thank the posters from other clubs for their thoughts. Its great to see how respected harris is throughout the footy fraternity.

 

[Football Pope]

Do you know if yours was a "minor" bleed like Andrews or a "significant" bleed?

significant??..nah don't know.

 

[Nunez]

Dunno...I fell of a ladder and knocked my head on the concrete house stump...Holiday time so home alone I don't know how long I was out but I tried to get up and felt dazed and couldn't stand up.... Had no feeling in my feet so I crawled inside, much to the dogs delight being at his level, tried to lie down on the couch.. but couldn't.. I went through a sick giddy feeling as I tried to lie down...So I sat just looking at the TV for hours..not sure if it was even on...

Later when I had feeling in my feet took myself to hospital..I spent several hours just being observed before I had scans later that night..got the all clear and went home...2 days later I started to get the giddiness back and nauseous and numbness in my right foot I had an appointment booked at the docs the next day so thought i would wait ..Doc abused me for not coming in sooner and sent me straight to hospital...Had scans that showed I had bleeding on the brain.. Was admitted into hospital and kept there... Scared shitless and confused really didn't know what was going on....

Lucky.. I didn't require surgery ...About as close as it gets to having a stroke without having one ..Side effects I have no smell or taste and a loss with some memory....i.e General day to day phone convo's are the worse I write 'em down then cant remember what it was about which is painful....and the worst is I just don't remember friends or neighbours names....

Brave of you to share mate. Sounds like a pretty crazy time but certainly could have been worse - thank God (science) for the age of technology we live in that gives us things like brain scans and adequate treatments.

I fractured a bone in my neck in 2016, and initially it wasn't picked up on the X-ray. It kept getting worse and it wasn't until I got an MRI months later did the doctors and specialists understand why. I was very fortunate that mine was a lodged fracture otherwise it could have been a lot worse, but I felt so lucky to live in a country/time to have the means to find things such as this.

 

[Bjorn Again]

I am a doctor.

I trust the experience of the examining doctors. Without examining Harris personally there is no way of knowing how he was affected by the hit at the time. The fact he was sent home tells me that he would not have had any red flags in his examination. His partner would have been told what warning signs to look for. Intracranial bleeds often take some time to manifest symptoms (hours to days). Indeed this is what appears to have happened here.

Harris knocked out by hit... not the first time this has happened in AFL without ambulance to ED. Examined. Stitched up. Failed concussion test but no red flags. Sits out game. Goes home. A few hours later symptoms develop and he is admitted after fronting to ED.

If he had been taken immediately to hospital I do not think the outcome for Harris would be any different to what it is now. Its not like he was abandoned to look after himself without any supports. Just chill out guys.

EDIT: Just like to add that routine CT scans are definitely not warranted in every head knock that results in loss of consciousness. There are strict guidelines in place which would have been followed.

 

[Dylan12]

Finally a voice in reason tonight from an unlikely source; Matthew Lloyd and Chris Judd on Footy Classified.

If only our own Jono Brown shared similar thoughts.

 

[Berrygood]

Should the afl consider send offs for foul play that causes a game ending injury like harris andrews. Or should an emergency be allowed to come in to replace the injured player. It kinda shits me that cameron was able to continue playing and influence the game the way he did, while we lose a gun player and a rotation off the bench. Just doesnt seem equitable.

 

[Dodongo]

Dodongo sees people telling stories of what happened to them so Dodongo will share two stories.

When Dodongo was younger Dodongo played football. Dodongo got concussed one week. Dodongo thought nothing of it and got a slight hit in the head the next week early on in the match. Dodongo felt like Dodongo was in lala land for the next 40 mins running around not really thinking what Dodongo was doing. Dodongo was fine after that for the rest of the game.

The same thing happened the following two weeks.

Dodongo stopped playing footy due to other reasons.

A few years later Dodongo rode into the back of a parked car on Dodongo's bike. All Dodongo remembers was standing up and seeing a dude get out of the car and then Dodongo fell to the ground straightaway. The next thing Dodongo remembered was sitting on the couch in the guys living room. So yeah, Dodongo did black out.

Dodongo has never had a brain bleed but yeah, Dodongo has had a lot of concussions.

Dodongo thinks that Dodongo has felt some side effects with how Dodongo feels sometimes.

 

[Saucery]

I do wish harris all the very best. Be it 2 weeks, 6 weeks or the rest of the season off, take whatever time you need to get right. Your long term health is far more important than a game. I'd also like to thank the posters from other clubs for their thoughts. Its great to see how respected harris is throughout the footy fraternity.

This

 

[deklares]

experience with Justin Clarke to ensure Harris Andrews recovers fully
AFL

• June 25, 2018 11:08pm
• by ANDREW HAMILTON
• Source: The Courier-Mail

GIANT Jeremy Cameron will learn his fate tonight after being referred straight to the AFL tribunal for intentionally striking Harris Andrews but the wait will be longer for the Lion who will not be considered for two weeks.

Andrews is likely to miss at least a month after suffering severe concussion and a small bleed on his brain from an elbow to the head from Cameron at the Gabba on Saturday.

The Lions say discussions with experts have been encouraging and they expect the vice-captain to make a full recovery.

He has been assessed by a neurosurgeon and will have another examination in two weeks where his immediate playing future will be determined.

However, experience has shown that when concussed Lions players have returned to training it can prolong the symptoms of concussion, so Andrews will do almost no training in that period.

It means even if he is cleared to return in two weeks he is likely to face extra time regaining fitness.

Dayne Zorko checks on Harris Andrews.Source: Getty Images

Brisbane are experienced at dealing with the effects of head knocks after Jonathan Brown, Matt Maguire and Justin Clarke’s careers were all ended by concussions.

Jack Frost also suffered long-term dizziness and headaches after a concussion last year but has returned to football this season.

It is the Clarke situation that will weigh most heavily on Brisbane’s mind when determining Andrews’ return.

He retired at just 22-years-of-age after he was knocked out in a training accident and suffered major memory loss and bouts of illness.

Each time Clarke attempted to return to training major headaches returned.

Andrews went home after the game on Saturday night but became violently ill and was rushed to hospital.

#NoBrainNoGame ambassador Justin Clarke. Picture: Liam KidstonSource: News Corp Australia
He has now been discharged from hospital but remains under close observation at his parent’s home.

The Lions issued a statement saying he would be regularly monitored by club medicos and would undergo the standard concussion protocols.

“Our discussions with the neurosurgeon have been encouraging as they expect Harris to make a full recovery,” football manager David Noble said.

“He will have a follow-up scan in two weeks’ time, when we will know more.”

Match Review chairman Michael Christian said Cameron’s action was assessed to be intentional and of severe impact.

“We came up with the view that it was to be graded as intentional,’’ he said.

“Certainly on the basis that a raised forearm or elbow is usually conclusive that a strike is intentional.

And from there it is was a question of determining the impact, of course the Brisbane Lions made a release today of the condition of Harris Andrews, that was taken into account along with the visual look of the incident and the immediate reaction from Harris.

“Those three issues were all taken into account in determining the impact was graded as severe.’’

 

[Haggis McHaggis]

If only our own Jono Brown shared similar thoughts.

Unfortunately Browny was always in a rush to absolve his opponents of any responsibility for the hits he took when playing too. Blokes like that are just worried the toughness, the contact, will be removed from football. I understand their concerns, but they’re misplaced for the most part. The faulty premise that thinking is based on, is the notion that those of us that want the cheap shots gone, don’t enjoy the hardness of the game as much as they do, and want to see it rolled back.

 

[braddsey]

Unfortunately Browny was always in a rush to absolve his opponents of any responsibility for the hits he took when playing too. Blokes like that are just worried the toughness, the contact, will be removed from football. I understand their concerns, but they’re misplaced for the most part. The faulty premise that thinking is based on, is the notion that those of us that want the cheap shots gone, don’t enjoy the hardness of the game as much as they do, and want to see it rolled back.

I don't think Browny's multiple broken face incidents were in the same class as Harris Andrews for being hit by an opponent...
- 2011 vs Freo: JB headbutted Luke McPharlin's knee taking a great diving mark. (self-inflicted)
- 2011 vs Geelong: broke his face running jumping into a pack of 5 players going for a mark. (self-inflicted)
- 2012 vs Goose Maguire: broken cheek at pre-season training.
- 2012 vs West Coast: smashed by Darren Glass. (Glass suspended)
- 2012 vs a car: elbow gash (10 stitches). Car was worse off.
- 2014 vs GWS: headbutted Bugg's hip diving for a mark. (self-inflicted)

The only one of those that comes close was the incident with Darren Glass, and at least Glass tucked his elbow.

 

[lionraven]

The UQ brain institute currently openly state that no one really understands concussion ATM. They have a project going where they are mapping the brains of elite athletes so if those athletes ever suffer a concussion they can look for changes. Given the involvement of Justin Clark Afl players might be included and Harris might be among their athletes. They take saliva swabs and scans of concussion sufferers every few days after a concussion to try to further the medical understanding of concussion and it effects. Given that, if Harris was my son (he'd make his own decisions but) I'd be hoping he would sit the rest of a crap season out for two reasons 1-Just in case cause the experts admit not knowing everything and 2- it may add years to his career length. Be a shame to cop another knock this year given the known accumulative nature of concussion and it's always possible.

Today has been a day of too much sharing. Goodnight.

That still doesnt make any sense. If Harris doesnt show any signs of concussion in two weeks time we should just stop him from playing anyway because of gut feelings? Why arbitrarily this season? Why not next season as well? What is supposed to change in that time? If he cant play the regular season then why should he play next season? I mean if we are going by gut feeling rather than patient symptoms should we all have a poll and decide how long our gut feelings state he should be out of the game for? A brain bleed =/= concussion. Yes we dont know everything about concussion, repeat concussion and lifetime brain injury risk but we do know its symptoms. If Harris has no symptoms in 2 weeks then he we know he is not suffering the effects of concussion and if he wants to play he can. There is no point putting random arbitrary time lengths on these things.

 

[Haggis McHaggis]

I don't think Browny's multiple broken face incidents were in the same class as Harris Andrews for being hit by an opponent...

Definitely not suggesting that. Just that he tends to give players the benefit of the doubt. The one that sticks out was MacPharlin. He was at pains to stress it was accidental at the time.

 

[CarterS]

Careers can easily be ended by this type of hit, don't think Cameron really understood or appreciated that fact in his interview. Maybe wishful thinking but I think the sentence is going to be harsher than what most are saying (somewhere in region of 6-8).

 

[DashinD]

Careers can easily be ended by this type of hit, don't think Cameron really understood or appreciated that fact in his interview. Maybe wishful thinking but I think the sentence is going to be harsher than what most are saying (somewhere in region of 6-8).

Yes I tend to agree. I don't know whether it's because Harris is such a well respected young star, or the plain the brutality of it, or the shocking and graphic way Harris fell, but this one has really penetrated with fans, the media (some D/H commentators excluded) and even the general public. I'd be surprised if it's less than 5 or 6 weeks.

JC has also firmly stamped his cards as Thug. There's no coming back from here for him. He won't be remembered fondly by the general footy public. And rightly so.

 

[Rocketman1984]

experience with Justin Clarke to ensure Harris Andrews recovers fully
AFL

• June 25, 2018 11:08pm
• by ANDREW HAMILTON
• Source: The Courier-Mail

GIANT Jeremy Cameron will learn his fate tonight after being referred straight to the AFL tribunal for intentionally striking Harris Andrews but the wait will be longer for the Lion who will not be considered for two weeks.

Andrews is likely to miss at least a month after suffering severe concussion and a small bleed on his brain from an elbow to the head from Cameron at the Gabba on Saturday.

The Lions say discussions with experts have been encouraging and they expect the vice-captain to make a full recovery.

He has been assessed by a neurosurgeon and will have another examination in two weeks where his immediate playing future will be determined.

However, experience has shown that when concussed Lions players have returned to training it can prolong the symptoms of concussion, so Andrews will do almost no training in that period.

It means even if he is cleared to return in two weeks he is likely to face extra time regaining fitness.

Dayne Zorko checks on Harris Andrews.Source: Getty Images

Brisbane are experienced at dealing with the effects of head knocks after Jonathan Brown, Matt Maguire and Justin Clarke’s careers were all ended by concussions.

Jack Frost also suffered long-term dizziness and headaches after a concussion last year but has returned to football this season.

It is the Clarke situation that will weigh most heavily on Brisbane’s mind when determining Andrews’ return.

He retired at just 22-years-of-age after he was knocked out in a training accident and suffered major memory loss and bouts of illness.

Each time Clarke attempted to return to training major headaches returned.

Andrews went home after the game on Saturday night but became violently ill and was rushed to hospital.

#NoBrainNoGame ambassador Justin Clarke. Picture: Liam KidstonSource: News Corp Australia
He has now been discharged from hospital but remains under close observation at his parent’s home.

The Lions issued a statement saying he would be regularly monitored by club medicos and would undergo the standard concussion protocols.

“Our discussions with the neurosurgeon have been encouraging as they expect Harris to make a full recovery,” football manager David Noble said.

“He will have a follow-up scan in two weeks’ time, when we will know more.”

Match Review chairman Michael Christian said Cameron’s action was assessed to be intentional and of severe impact.

“We came up with the view that it was to be graded as intentional,’’ he said.

“Certainly on the basis that a raised forearm or elbow is usually conclusive that a strike is intentional.

And from there it is was a question of determining the impact, of course the Brisbane Lions made a release today of the condition of Harris Andrews, that was taken into account along with the visual look of the incident and the immediate reaction from Harris.

“Those three issues were all taken into account in determining the impact was graded as severe.’’

Is it worth putting our key defenders in helmets. Over the past few years we have lost Clarke, McGuire, Frost and now Andrews for significant periods of time and one forever. Given like Andrews on the weekend they spoil the ball at angles which puts them at vulnerable positions where key forwards normally run in straight lines and can see the danger ahead and pull out (unlike Cameron). Maybe worth considering as we are the last club that can afford to lose players of Andrews class.

 

[Dalions]

Is it worth putting our key defenders in helmets. Over the past few years we have lost Clarke, McGuire, Frost and now Andrews for significant periods of time and one forever. Given like Andrews on the weekend they spoil the ball at angles which puts them at vulnerable positions where key forwards normally run in straight lines and can see the danger ahead and pull out (unlike Cameron). Maybe worth considering as we are the last club that can afford to lose players of Andrews class.

Not going to stop a front on elbow to the chin.
Unless you are talking a hard helmet? In which case everyone would need to wear one and padding to stop the damage a helmet itself could cause. Then we can just call it the NFL. Who have their own major problems with head injuries and concussion.

 

[Tassie4ever]

My son's worst nightmare: the grandson of a 96yo who isn't able to sprint out of the ward, having had a hip or knee replacement. The grandson is a barrister who knows his rights and isn't afraid to exercise them.

Im sorry I was crude in my reply. Im tired of working every day with people who think they absolutely know better because they googled a few terms and their friend told them something. If you are a lawyer and your client decides Dobbo from down the street knows better you can say your client is hostile and leave. If you are an accountant and your client decides to commit fraud you just leave and let the tax man know. If my patient decides they will listen to their faith healer woo-woo healing crystal lady neighbour than myself I am obligated to spend hours of my day making sure this person knows exactly what the **** they are in for and try to convince them to stay otherwise you know this person is going to come back 6 months from now with a giant fungating cancer and a lawyer suing you for not trying harder to convince this snowflake that magic beans wont make their breast cancer disappear. Cancer sucks but people can suck more.

Sent from my SM-N920I using Tapatalk

 

[dlanod]

Not going to stop a front on elbow to the chin.
Unless you are talking a hard helmet? In which case everyone would need to wear one and padding to stop the damage a helmet itself could cause. Then we can just call it the NFL. Who have their own major problems with head injuries and concussion.

Funnily enough hard helmets in the NFL are deemed to be at least a partial cause in their increase in concussions because they don't do anything to mitigate the shock from a hit, while also encouraging players to lead with their head.