Hartlett vs Martin vs Ziebell vs Shuey

[ArjenTheGreat]

Martin, Ziebell, Shuey, Hartlett

Ziebell's combination of skill and hardness and appropriate amount of campaigner should not be underestimated- is also the only who has played well in a final. Shuey has consistently under performed away from home and in big games- ditto dusty- Hartless whilst a gun is made of paper mâché and would be the last picked as he is a hbf rather than a gun inside mid like the other 3.

 

[kaysee]

Hartlett is about to rip the AFL a new one this year. His body is getting stronger and his class is starting to ooze as he stamps his leadership on the young Port team.

 

[tacopavlich]

Shuey clearly better than the other 3. Both a great athlete, football brain, and has consistancy. Martin is an athlete with an occasional highlight, wouldn't rate him at this stage as good as shuey. Hartlett has amazing potential, needs a consistant run though to realy gage how good he is. Ziebell meh.

 

[Heisenberg_]

Shuey clearly better than the other 3. Both a great athlete, football brain, and has consistancy. Martin is an athlete with an occasional highlight, wouldn't rate him at this stage as good as shuey. Hartlett has amazing potential, needs a consistant run though to realy gage how good he is. Ziebell meh.

You got Dustin Martin all wrong, he is a footballer first and foremost not an athlete and yeah, Shuey isn't clearly better then the other 3 on potential or output.

 

[mark73]

I think Shuey/Martin will turn out the best, I think Ziebell will turn out the toughest and more reliable, but injury prone because of the way he plays, Hartlett is not really in their category. Talent yes, everything else no.

 

[thefendoff]

I'd take martin mostly cause of his goal kicking ability, 30+ in 2011 and 20+ in 2012 as a mid is pretty impressive for his age. Out of the other three i'd take shuey, probably the most "complete package" midfielder out of the group.

 

[Bigeasy]

Zeibell missed two years of footy so judging him against the other three on output so far is unfair. I would like to revisit this thread at the end of the year. He stood up in a finals debacle when most were hopeless. 30 possessions in his first final was a fantastic effort considering we were pumped by 16 goals. Shuey had 21 possies roving to the two dominant big men in the winning team and is a year older.

Severely underrated is Jack.

 

[Balony_pony16]

lots of good mids drafted around that era...add guys like Rich, hill, sidebottom, hannelbury, redden, beams, sloane...and more. I think a poll could have been expanded for mids from this era. But if I was going to pick any of the players it would be a tough call between shuey & Martin

 

[eth-dog]

Zeibell missed two years of footy so judging him against the other three on output so far is unfair. I would like to revisit this thread at the end of the year. He stood up in a finals debacle when most were hopeless. 30 possessions in his first final was a fantastic effort considering we were pumped by 16 goals. Shuey had 21 possies roving to the two dominant big men in the winning team and is a year older.

Severely underrated is Jack.

Strange reasoning. Shuey played less than 10 games in his first 2 seasons, and Hartlett has missed many games as well. The only one who's had no major injuries is Martin, really, so you can't play the injury card as an excuse for output in comparison to the first 2 at least

 

[Bigeasy]

Strange reasoning. Shuey played less than 10 games in his first 2 seasons, and Hartlett has missed many games as well. The only one who's had no major injuries is Martin, really, so you can't play the injury card as an excuse for output in comparison to the first 2 at least

2 broken legs.

 

[eth-dog]

2 broken legs.

And Hartlett has had shitloads of hamstring injuries, Shuey I can't remember exactly what injuries he sustained but the fact that he had less than 10 games in his first 2 seasons says that it was pretty major, I remember him having big wraps on having an immediate impact for West Coast.

It's like me saying you can't compare Myers and, say, Jack Grimes on impact because Myers has had something like 23 hamstring injuries in his AFL career, and yet Jack Grimes has had many injuries as well

 

[Donakebab]

And Hartlett has had shitloads of hamstring injuries, Shuey I can't remember exactly what injuries he sustained but the fact that he had less than 10 games in his first 2 seasons says that it was pretty major, I remember him having big wraps on having an immediate impact for West Coast.

It's like me saying you can't compare Myers and, say, Jack Grimes on impact because Myers has had something like 23 hamstring injuries in his AFL career, and yet Jack Grimes has had many injuries as well

Shuey had groin problems, then he broke his leg, then he had a a hernia, then his sister died, then contracted glandular fever.

Fair to say he's copped more than his fair share of hard luck, the worst of the 4 players listed.

 

[eth-dog]

Shuey had groin problems, then he broke his leg, then he had a a hernia, then his sister died, then contracted glandular fever.

Fair to say he's copped more than his fair share of hard luck, the worst of the 4 players listed.

BUT 2 BROKEN LEGS

 

[The Mighty Boosh]

Zeibell missed two years of footy so judging him against the other three on output so far is unfair. I would like to revisit this thread at the end of the year. He stood up in a finals debacle when most were hopeless. 30 possessions in his first final was a fantastic effort considering we were pumped by 16 goals. Shuey had 21 possies roving to the two dominant big men in the winning team and is a year older.

Severely underrated is Jack.

This argument is rubbish. In 4 years ziebell has played 62 games and been suspended for about 10 more. Where are the two missing seasons?

 

[Bigeasy]

This argument is rubbish. In 4 years ziebell has played 62 games and been suspended for about 10 more. Where are the two missing seasons?

Good lord he broke one in 2009 as an 18 yo and the other in 2010. He played about 13 games in those first two years but the rehab required and the regaining of confidence I takes meant that it took him at least another two solid preseasons to get back to square one. He has missed two full preseasons and has been catching up. The last two years has been uninterrupted and that's why I said it would be best to judge him at the end of this year.

 

[The Mighty Boosh]

Good lord he broke one in 2009 as an 18 yo and the other in 2010. He played about 13 games in those first two years but the rehab required and the regaining of confidence I takes meant that it took him at least another two solid preseasons to get back to square one. He has missed two full preseasons and has been catching up. The last two years has been uninterrupted and that's why I said it would be best to judge him at the end of this year.

No need to get snooty because I point out your inaccuracies.

Btw he played 24 games in his first 2 seasons. You aren't doing your side any favors by continuing the bs and spinning it far worse than it was. Jacks tough, he got back on his feet and completed all pre season training (he was considered for selection at the end of 2009 after his first fracture so I think he had recovered enough from that injury to partake in 2010 pre-season).

I'm not saying it wasn't a setback but as pointed out other players have them too and he has played more than enough games for a fair comparison.

Ziebell - 62 games
Shuey - 52 games
Hartlett - 46 games
Martin - 63 games

So Martin has one more game. He was also drafted one year after Ziebell. The other two have had noted injuries and played less games so I don't think it is unfair to compare Jack to the others on output so far though I know you'd much prefer to base it on ... potential. It's the only way Jack has a chance.

 

[tesseract]

Shuey has more midfielders around him that are just as capable, than what Ziebell has at North, and that takes possessions away from Shuey, as it's distributed amongst a greater number of a more even spread of talent.

Ziebell's standing in North's pecking order makes him more likely to be a bigger ball winner than Shuey, for the time being at least. Shuey's moving up in WC's pecking order, but at times is used behind Kerr, Priddis and Scott Selwood, whose game style are only that of grunt's, hence their predominance in WC's midfield. Shuey has this ability, too, being an IM, but he has a level of utility that the three aforementioned don't, for Shuey's just as devastating on the outside with his run and carry due to his breakaway pace.

 

[the big lebowski]

No need to get snooty because I point out your inaccuracies.

Btw he played 24 games in his first 2 seasons. You aren't doing your side any favors by continuing the bs and spinning it far worse than it was. Jacks tough, he got back on his feet and completed all pre season training (he was considered for selection at the end of 2009 after his first fracture so I think he had recovered enough from that injury to partake in 2010 pre-season).

I'm not saying it wasn't a setback but as pointed out other players have them too and he has played more than enough games for a fair comparison.

Ziebell - 62 games
Shuey - 52 games
Hartlett - 46 games
Martin - 63 games

So Martin has one more game. He was also drafted one year after Ziebell. The other two have had noted injuries and played less games so I don't think it is unfair to compare Jack to the others on output so far though I know you'd much prefer to base it on ... potential. It's the only way Jack has a chance.

That's all great mate, and you are correct all players have setbacks. However jacks have impacted him more than most given his fitness at afl level started so far behind those this thread compares him to. As all commentators say, it takes players 3-4 preseasons before they develope the running capacity required at afl level. Some less so, some even longer. Ziebells two broken legs have severely impacted on his ability to build his fitness base.

North supporters aren't claiming he has shown more than shuey or Martin at this stage. The thing he and Hartlett have shown though is a touch of class that shows they will be better overall players than they have shown in their short careers to date.

It's like how some people claim that Ziebell isn't a good kick. Common misconception. He may be the best of the 4 in this thread.

 

[richoatthedisco]

Martin


Hartlett

Shuey
Ziebell

 

[Wargreymon90]

That's all great mate, and you are correct all players have setbacks. However jacks have impacted him more than most given his fitness at afl level started so far behind those this thread compares him to. As all commentators say, it takes players 3-4 preseasons before they develope the running capacity required at afl level. Some less so, some even longer. Ziebells two broken legs have severely impacted on his ability to build his fitness base.

North supporters aren't claiming he has shown more than shuey or Martin at this stage. The thing he and Hartlett have shown though is a touch of class that shows they will be better overall players than they have shown in their short careers to date.

It's like how some people claim that Ziebell isn't a good kick. Common misconception. He may be the best of the 4 in this thread.

Hartlett is definitely the best kick in this bunch. I'm not saying he will be the best player. But kicking is one thing he has over the other three

 

[Donakebab]

It's like how some people claim that Ziebell isn't a good kick. Common misconception. He may be the best of the 4 in this thread.

There is absolutely no way Ziebell is a better kick than the other 3, you're blinded by bias if you think otherwise. Hartlett is easily the best.

 

[the big lebowski]

There is absolutely no way Ziebell is a better kick than the other 3, you're blinded by bias if you think otherwise. Hartlett is easily the best.

How do you rate Ziebells kicking?

 

[The Mighty Boosh]

How do you rate Ziebells kicking?

Inconsistent

 

[The Mighty Boosh]

That's all great mate, and you are correct all players have setbacks. However jacks have impacted him more than most given his fitness at afl level started so far behind those this thread compares him to. As all commentators say, it takes players 3-4 preseasons before they develope the running capacity required at afl level. Some less so, some even longer. Ziebells two broken legs have severely impacted on his ability to build his fitness base.

North supporters aren't claiming he has shown more than shuey or Martin at this stage. The thing he and Hartlett have shown though is a touch of class that shows they will be better overall players than they have shown in their short careers to date.

It's like how some people claim that Ziebell isn't a good kick. Common misconception. He may be the best of the 4 in this thread.

I don't think you can categorically state Jack's set-backs have impacted him more than the others and given he's played more games it's fair to compare their output so far and use in this analysis. Norf fans hope to God he can improve his endurance but...

Anyway, these are just opinions which could go either way. Persaonally, I think Jack Trengove will be a better player than Jack Ziebell but I know you don't rate him. We'll see.

 

[eth-dog]

How do you rate Ziebells kicking?

solid.