Mega Thread Has Clarko reached his use-by-date? *** All coach related discussion in here please***

[Redalert]

we started the trend of going for youthful untried coaches:

we can begin a new trend...here are some names: roos eade ayres (is it 30 games undefeated at prt melb now?) malthouse, matthews, and to break the mould of the previously mentioned Viney

All of those with exception of Ayres (Who is still under contract at Port Melb) are completely unviable within the remainder of this season, either because they've ruled out coaching this year or are employed elsewhere at another club.

 

[Phil McCreviss]

While I won't bite to your provocative statement I will ask why we should persist with him?

I thank him for the GF win. I was there and one of the best times I've ever had.
Since then the experiences of this football team have been some of the worst because I believe that this teams' talent is being wasted.

As I've said before we all love this club and want the best for it.

The way you delivered your last response was not as measured as this one. Hence H2F's response

 

[Hawkers]

The way you delivered your last response was not as measured as this one. Hence H2F's response

Understood.
I am angry and not very articulate

 

[Noneedforaname]

A 4:00am swim tomorrow morning could do the team a world of good!

Yeah, I hope Clarko and the assistants get out amongst it too.

Am even less impressed after watching the post match presser.

 

[Phil McCreviss]

Understood.
I am angry and not very articulate

Feel your pain mate. If its any consolation you are not alone

 

[lickmerocks]

Clarko has 2 years remaining on conservatively 650k a year. I don't think we will be doing a golden handshake for 1.3 mill.

Clarko made tough calls on the list in 05/06 etc and he will need to do it again if he wants us to have another crack. The issue is that the tough decisions are going to cause major heartburn with the supporters.

For eg., as a business decision if we were offered pick 7 and 14 for Cyril at end of the year in a strong draft you would be crazy not to consider. Is Cyril going to ever become the player we thought he might? The problem is the heartburn from the supporters going nuts if we did make a tough business call.

If clarko wants to survive he will need to make some tough calls to help us rebuild a midfield that currently had 4 snails in Lewis Sewell Mitchell and Shiels.

 

[smellthelatte]

Long time Hawk Fanatic and while I am very grateful for the 2008 triumph I think Clarko needs to come under some real scrutiny.

I don't think anyone has ever thought he has ever been a great match day coach. There is a perception that he believes keeping to the structures that were pre planned leading up to the match will be sufficient to get the job done.

If this is the case then it all goes out the window as soon as the opposing coach makes some sort of change/changes which is not in line with the match ups and structures that were envisaged leading up to the game.

If he does make moves it always seems to be far too late and it seems that he has never made the greatest choices in selecting the Sub and who to bring off let alone when to activate it.

Then there is the so called game plan that has been discussed ad nauseam and I'll leave it at that!

It remains to be seen if Clarko can get us into a finals campaign and how far we go if we get there.

One thing will be for sure he will have no where to hide if we fall short again given an average run with injuries.

 

[macdaddio]

Clarkos time at Hawthorn:
2005 5 wins bottom but not not last.
2006 9 wins bottom top half
2007 13 wins 7th
2008 2nd GF FLAG
2009 9 wins 10th
2010 13.5 wins 7th lose first final KO
2011 18 wins 3rd prelim win 1 final lose 2.
2012??????

Since 2008 we have had 2 finals with 1 win.
We have gone backwards dramatically and I don't see how Clarko can keep his job if we don't finish top 4 this year.
2009 and 2010 he had reason not to make it for our injuries, this time there is no excuses we have had a good list to date so there is no way he or anyone can blame injuries this year.
I've always been a Clarko fan but I'm fed up with this crap game style and losing games we should win and losing 7 straight games to the Cats is enough already.
Simple fact is that we have a good list and should be sitting top 4. We don't make top 4 and a prelim this year than I'm afraid it's time up for Clarko unless he changes our game style and stops trading has beens from other clubs and we build our club from with in.

 

[Harper_Hawk]

I have a feeling were going to finish somewhere between 6th and 9th with Clarkson's current game plan and the inherent enthusiasm the team has in winning when they FEEL like it.

I hope the HFC board, and others are looking closely at what Clarkson is doing with this team. We are going to get belted again like we did today, what happens when we come across a faster midfield like Essendon or Carlton? Look out when we play Adelaide over there.

Either Clarkson grow some balls and stop with your favourites or HFC baord grow a pair or the players. Pardon the pun. The balls are in your court. Show the supporters what this team can do or make difficult changes.

 

[SA HAWK]

Clarko has 2 years remaining on conservatively 650k a year. I don't think we will be doing a golden handshake for 1.3 mill.

Clarko made tough calls on the list in 05/06 etc and he will need to do it again if he wants us to have another crack. The issue is that the tough decisions are going to cause major heartburn with the supporters.

For eg., as a business decision if we were offered pick 7 and 14 for Cyril at end of the year in a strong draft you would be crazy not to consider. Is Cyril going to ever become the player we thought he might? The problem is the heartburn from the supporters going nuts if we did make a tough business call.

If clarko wants to survive he will need to make some tough calls to help us rebuild a midfield that currently had 4 snails in Lewis Sewell Mitchell and Shiels.

Clarko would know that anything less than a premiership in the next 3 years and he is gone.

Will he try and do the right thing by the club in trying to set us up for the future or coach to try and save his own job and leave us a rabble by the time he is finished?

I fear it will be the latter but hope i am wrong.

 

[MowShow]

To be honest, 2008 was a huge success. 2009 a huge failure, possibly due to injuries. 2010, no excuse but we gave the man his chance and brought him back once again. 2011 brought us back on par. And now 2012 looks to be headed downhill yet again. Regardless of gameplan (ours is horrendous), the man has been given his chance.

I don't see how we can correctly bring him back in 2013, unlesss something miraculous happens. Because as of right now, we dont look likely at all and he's been given his chance(s).

Hope he turns it around though.. Not holding my breath.

 

[Bosk]

Will he try and do the right thing by the club in trying to set us up for the future or coach to try and save his own job and leave us a rabble by the time he is finished?

Given his propensity for trading draft picks for ready-made talent from other clubs, what do you reckon mate? I'd say the writing is already on the wall on that score.

 

[SA HAWK]

Given his propensity for trading draft picks for ready-made talent from other clubs, what do you reckon mate? I'd say the writing is already on the wall on that score.

I agree i think he has been coaching to save himself.

Having a decent season last year was probably the worst thing that could have happened to us.

 

[MowShow]

Clarko has 2 years remaining on conservatively 650k a year. I don't think we will be doing a golden handshake for 1.3 mill.

Clarko made tough calls on the list in 05/06 etc and he will need to do it again if he wants us to have another crack. The issue is that the tough decisions are going to cause major heartburn with the supporters.

For eg., as a business decision if we were offered pick 7 and 14 for Cyril at end of the year in a strong draft you would be crazy not to consider. Is Cyril going to ever become the player we thought he might? The problem is the heartburn from the supporters going nuts if we did make a tough business call.

If clarko wants to survive he will need to make some tough calls to help us rebuild a midfield that currently had 4 snails in Lewis Sewell Mitchell and Shiels.

Consider? Sign me up. Hell sign me up for pick 7 alone.. Cyril is magic and amazing in bursts, but is never going to be an out and out gun. Media hype him because of the amazing things he can do, but a top 7 pick (unless in the hands of the demons) is something we need a hell of a lot more than 15 minutes of magic every second week. We need class, and four quarters of class week in week out.

 

[Harper_Hawk]

Given his propensity for trading draft picks for ready-made talent from other clubs, what do you reckon mate? I'd say the writing is already on the wall on that score.

The writing is on the wall. It's just too difficult to comprehend and read at the moment after today's game. Was there midway through the last quarter in the Sydney game. It's just we painted over it with some bad quality paint picked out by the coach that chipped away today. Let's hope Norf don't come down to Tassie next week and bulldoze the wall down.

 

[Watsclarkosmob]

Re: A Clarkson

Could "true" supporters please disect our forward line setup for me ....

Reverse huddle??

 

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

While I won't bite to your provocative statement I will ask why we should persist with him?

I thank him for the GF win. I was there and one of the best times I've ever had.
Since then the experiences of this football team have been some of the worst because I believe that this teams' talent is being wasted.

As I've said before we all love this club and want the best for it.

I think the Hawks have a lot of talent, but the problem to me is that the talent is not in the midfield. Well I guess Roughy has been playing there lately, but when you've got Cyril, Buddy and Roughy as 3 excellent forwards and you've got Gibson, Birchall and likely Hodge when he is fit in defence, that's 6 of your best 8 players that dont play in the middle. It means they can't influence the game enough from their positions.

Hodge out really hurts this side against the best opposition. With Hodge and Mitchell in the middle it gives you a toughness and class to go with it. With out him Mitchell is the only genuine, class A grade onballer in the side.
I think Lewis could be an A grader, but he seems like he is playing a defensive role. He was poor today, wasn't clean and too often looked to body/shephard when he actually needed to grab the footy. Seems like he should be released.

A Bailey, Hodge, Mitchell and Lewis centre square, fit and firing gives the Hawks a chance to win it all again. But the problem is Hodge doesn't look like he'll get back, or wont get back to being a regular midfielder, Bailey is obviously out and Lewis is preoccupied with shutting down an opponent.

In all honesty, is a midfield of Hale, Lewis, Sewell, Mitchell, Young, Burgoyne, Shiels, Smith and Savage one of the best in the comp? In big games there are a few guys there that seem past their best (Sewell, Burgoyne, Young) and a few that have had average/ordinary years so far (Mitchell, Shiels) and a couple of guys too young to be called on to consistently influence important games (Savage, Smith).

To me Hawthorn's season rests on getting Hodge and/or Rioli into the midfield on a full time basis. If it doesn't happen, you have to question whether, with the evening of the competition this year, the Hawks actually have enough talent around the ball to be a genuine contender. To this end I do actually think its a talent thing and not a coaching thing.

 

[Pessimistic]

Re: A Clarkson

Could "true" supporters please disect our forward line setup for me ....

To be fair you could take that photo for any team in any game these days.

They should make the field a half moon because thts how the games played

 

[jr4jane2004]

Clarkos time at Hawthorn:
2005 5 wins bottom but not not last.
2006 9 wins bottom top half
2007 13 wins 7th
2008 2nd GF FLAG
2009 9 wins 10th
2010 13.5 wins 7th lose first final KO
2011 18 wins 3rd prelim win 1 final lose 2.
2012??????

Since 2008 we have had 2 finals with 1 win.
We have gone backwards dramatically and I don't see how Clarko can keep his job if we don't finish top 4 this year.
2009 and 2010 he had reason not to make it for our injuries, this time there is no excuses we have had a good list to date so there is no way he or anyone can blame injuries this year.
I've always been a Clarko fan but I'm fed up with this crap game style and losing games we should win and losing 7 straight games to the Cats is enough already.
Simple fact is that we have a good list and should be sitting top 4. We don't make top 4 and a prelim this year than I'm afraid it's time up for Clarko unless he changes our game style and stops trading has beens from other clubs and we build our club from with in.

Before we start quoting injuries....look at Geelong Scarlett hardly plays, Vardy, Varcoe etc....Collingwood..half their team is injured but u dont see them get blown away by 60 pts to a tigers team who i must admit is improving...the difference between us and a Geelong and Collingwood is the will to compete, and stem momentum when momentum is not going your way...the coach plays a big part on that....cos he controls the matchup and gameplan....my guess Clarko is asking way too much of the team...players don't believe the gameplan is achievable....or it don't work because other teams know what your going to do....

 

[Phil McCreviss]

I think the Hawks have a lot of talent, but the problem to me is that the talent is not in the midfield. Well I guess Roughy has been playing there lately, but when you've got Cyril, Buddy and Roughy as 3 excellent forwards and you've got Gibson, Birchall and likely Hodge when he is fit in defence, that's 6 of your best 8 players that dont play in the middle. It means they can't influence the game enough from their positions.

Hodge out really hurts this side against the best opposition. With Hodge and Mitchell in the middle it gives you a toughness and class to go with it. With out him Mitchell is the only genuine, class A grade onballer in the side.
I think Lewis could be an A grader, but he seems like he is playing a defensive role. He was poor today, wasn't clean and too often looked to body/shephard when he actually needed to grab the footy. Seems like he should be released.

A Bailey, Hodge, Mitchell and Lewis centre square, fit and firing gives the Hawks a chance to win it all again. But the problem is Hodge doesn't look like he'll get back, or wont get back to being a regular midfielder, Bailey is obviously out and Lewis is preoccupied with shutting down an opponent.

In all honesty, is a midfield of Hale, Lewis, Sewell, Mitchell, Young, Burgoyne, Shiels, Smith and Savage one of the best in the comp? In big games there are a few guys there that seem past their best (Sewell, Burgoyne, Young) and a few that have had average/ordinary years so far (Mitchell, Shiels) and a couple of guys too young to be called on to consistently influence important games (Savage, Smith).

To me Hawthorn's season rests on getting Hodge and/or Rioli into the midfield on a full time basis. If it doesn't happen, you have to question whether, with the evening of the competition this year, the Hawks actually have enough talent around the ball to be a genuine contender. To this end I do actually think its a talent thing and not a coaching thing.

Not sure if serious? It's a talent thing but we have the same personnel that almost knocked you off in a prelim. It's game plan and desire to win that supersedes everything you have brought up in this post. Sometimes I wonder if people actually watch the game.

 

[jr4jane2004]

I think the Hawks have a lot of talent, but the problem to me is that the talent is not in the midfield. Well I guess Roughy has been playing there lately, but when you've got Cyril, Buddy and Roughy as 3 excellent forwards and you've got Gibson, Birchall and likely Hodge when he is fit in defence, that's 6 of your best 8 players that dont play in the middle. It means they can't influence the game enough from their positions.

Hodge out really hurts this side against the best opposition. With Hodge and Mitchell in the middle it gives you a toughness and class to go with it. With out him Mitchell is the only genuine, class A grade onballer in the side.
I think Lewis could be an A grader, but he seems like he is playing a defensive role. He was poor today, wasn't clean and too often looked to body/shephard when he actually needed to grab the footy. Seems like he should be released.

A Bailey, Hodge, Mitchell and Lewis centre square, fit and firing gives the Hawks a chance to win it all again. But the problem is Hodge doesn't look like he'll get back, or wont get back to being a regular midfielder, Bailey is obviously out and Lewis is preoccupied with shutting down an opponent.

In all honesty, is a midfield of Hale, Lewis, Sewell, Mitchell, Young, Burgoyne, Shiels, Smith and Savage one of the best in the comp? In big games there are a few guys there that seem past their best (Sewell, Burgoyne, Young) and a few that have had average/ordinary years so far (Mitchell, Shiels) and a couple of guys too young to be called on to consistently influence important games (Savage, Smith).

To me Hawthorn's season rests on getting Hodge and/or Rioli into the midfield on a full time basis. If it doesn't happen, you have to question whether, with the evening of the competition this year, the Hawks actually have enough talent around the ball to be a genuine contender. To this end I do actually think its a talent thing and not a coaching thing.

That's a fair call there...looking at footywire stats: our midfield averages have been down this year compared to last year....the midfield stats for this year...sammy mitchell is our #1 ranked mid at overall #18 with 225 possessions as of round 9, sewell is next at 212....ranked 48 Suckling 196 and ranked 50 whitecross ..194.... last year mitchell was ranked #3, birchall #14, shiels #15 hodge #24 and sewell #43...dont think any teams have won a flag with a midfield that doesnt have players in the top 5 or top 10 mids in the comp...players like boyd, pendels, swans, thompson, gazza are still in the top echelon of mids....this year the likes of lids, stanton, watson, sidebottom, grigg, cotchin, tuck are in the top 20 so theyre having breakout seasons and no suprise there why is essendon is at top 4...notice how there are tigers players there....for the pundits kennedy is ranked #12 this year...would have been handy for us...so this year in the top 20:
Players in the Top 20:

WB = 2
TIGERS = 4
PIES = 4
GOLD COAST = 1
SAINTS = 2
CROWS = 2
WC = 1
SWANS = 1
CROWS = 2

AND US...
HAWKS = 1 (MITCHELL)

Stats suggest the area of concern is in fact the midfield....its no surprise that's what Clarko has been harping on about in the press match conferences...we need the likes of mitchell, shiels, birchall & co to start winning more ball...hodge needs to come back in the mix...we need him badly....bailey was a huge asset last year which helped our mids he also needs to come back....whilst white x, ellis, suckling, smith, rioli need to step up.....if they can increase the'yre output going forwards were a chance...if not kiss this year goodbye....

 

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

Not sure if serious? It's a talent thing but we have the same personnel that almost knocked you off in a prelim. It's game plan and desire to win that supersedes everything you have brought up in this post. Sometimes I wonder if people actually watch the game.

With out Hodge, yes I am saying it is a talent thing. And you did have Hodge in last years Prelim, granted it wasn't his best ever game, but he was still good in and around the ball and gave great leadership. You played great in the prelim, but to justify your midfields ability on one solitary game played last year seems a little ridiculous doesn't it? Does that mean the Bombers of 2011 can point to them being better than the Cats midfield because they beat them?

Where would you rank your midfield, purely on talent and Hodgeless in terms of the rest of the competition?

I'd think Geelong, Collingwood, West Coast, Sydney, Carlton, St.Kilda, Richmond, Adelaide and maybe even Essendon have more talent in their midfields. Chuck a firing Hodge and Rioli in there and you are definitely right toward the top, but both seem unable to play there due to injuries.

 

[J0NNY B]

With out Hodge, yes I am saying it is a talent thing. And you did have Hodge in last years Prelim, granted it wasn't his best ever game, but he was still good in and around the ball and gave great leadership. You played great in the prelim, but to justify your midfields ability on one solitary game played last year seems a little ridiculous doesn't it? Does that mean the Bombers of 2011 can point to them being better than the Cats midfield because they beat them?

Where would you rank your midfield, purely on talent and Hodgeless in terms of the rest of the competition?

I'd think Geelong, Collingwood, West Coast, Sydney, Carlton, St.Kilda, Richmond, Adelaide and maybe even Essendon have more talent in their midfields. Chuck a firing Hodge and Rioli in there and you are definitely right toward the top, but both seem unable to play there due to injuries.

Hard to argue with that. Fair and balanced response.

 

[blackhead&boil]

clarko said yesterday that the players lacked endeavour...

 

[blackhead&boil]

Must say I am keen to change our fitness staff. Their mids were stronger over the ball. And they are a younger side

Look at a bloke like Shiels. Looks skinnier than last year. He was one that looked like he was going to be a reasonably nuggetty on baller who could hold his ground over the ball but now he has been with us a few years he is super lean.

Have a look at the power in the legs of the essendon players. Then look at ours...

I was hoping that our strategy of making our blokes lean would give us an endurance advantage but it is abundantly clear it doesnt. And it has given us a disadvantage at the contest.

I don't think there is anything wrong with the fitness staff. they would be building the players up as they are asked to. the fact that they have kept the side free of soft tissue injuries with such a high volume of running in their match day plan suggests that they know what they are doing...