Snake_Baker
The one true King of the North
- Apr 24, 2013
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Who comes close to Franklin in this era?
As a true KPF?
Kennedy is better.
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Who comes close to Franklin in this era?
I partially agree with you, in that defense is far more sophisticated now than it was even 10 years ago. However, as a key forward in those days, you would come up against a quality one on one key defender nearly every week, something that rarely happens today. Not to mention in those days, the game was a fair bit more 'physical' than it is now, in the sense that there was a lot more body on body, grappling, and a few other tactics that are well and truly frowned upon today.
As a key forward?
Kennedy is better.
This is the epitome of a strawman argument. Carey fed goals to Longmire and smalls. That's what CHFs did.
If you think Franklin is as good or better than Carey you never saw Carey play.
As a true KPF?
Kennedy is better.
I'd take Dermie for my own sheer enjoyment, not much between them.
His allround game...
I understand your concern with the use of the word "far", but I need to point something out to you.As I've mentioned, Carey is the best I've seen.
However, I still struggle with "far more dominant in his era". No player is far more dominant than Franklin. Franklin would be a top 20 player of all time. Nobody is 'far' ahead. Also, Carey's era favoured the individual, particularly the key forward. Franklin's era is far more focussed on sacrifice and team goals (hence Coleman tallies drastically reducing as just one example). In his era, Carey was considered the best but other key forwards (Dunstall, Lockett, GAS) were all very close (with many picking others as the best of that era). Who comes close to Franklin in this era? He is head and shoulders above.
See I would argue defence is much better now, because lets look at the top 30 goal kickers and when they played (going by majority of the years in their career)
1910 to 1919 - 1
1920 to 1929 - 2
1930 to 1939 - 4
1960 to 1969 - 1
1970 to 1979 - 6
1980 to 1989 - 3
1990 to 1999 - 5
2000 to 2009 - 7
2010 to 2017 - 1
So basically, goal kicking became much easier in the 1970's, and then in about 2005 it suddenly became a lot harder around that period. The 2005 mark (or around there) was the death of easy goal kicking for big key forwards, with 2009 being the final death.
Also Buddy is the only one who is on the 2010 to 2017, and while this decade is not complete, it is safe to say no one currently playing is going to break into the top 30 except for Buddy, at least who played majority of their career in the 2010 to 2019 era. The only one who might is Jack Riewoldt.
Contested marking, high marking, kicking skills off both feet, footy IQ, balance i.e. centre of gravity, leadership, courage, aggression, timing, and the ability to stand up in critical moments within games.Can you break this down please. What do you see as the key aspects of being the greatest?
I said defense is better. Don't confuse a more strategic and organized defense as a unit with better individual defenders overall. If you put todays defenders in Carey's time, all but maybe Rance would get destroyed.
The difference as much as the quality of defensive strategy is the complete move away from positional play. Teams play in loosely defined 'units' as opposed to positions. This is why this discussion exists in the first place. Franklin in the 90's and prior would have been a flanker, maybe even a winger. He has never been a true CHF even though he occasionally plays there and at FF. Transport Carey to today, he wouldn't be a CHF, he'd be a 'forward', or at best a 'tall forward'. I don't buy this 'key forward' stuff any more. There are very very few players in the league you could call a key forward or defender these days, unlike previous years where every team had several. They just don't play it that way any more.
Contested marking, high marking, kicking skills off both feet, footy IQ, balance i.e. centre of gravity, leadership, courage, aggression, timing, and the ability to stand up in critical moments within games.
Carey had it all. Franklin has some of it.
In his era, Carey was considered the best but other key forwards (Dunstall, Lockett, GAS) were all very close (with many picking others as the best of that era).
Transported to today Carey would be a medium forward, as 192cm is quite short for today. Not a lot of gun 192cm forwards.
A truer word has never been written. Come the turn of the century you wouldn't have been wrong whoever you picked, now some say there is massive gaps between them!
Yep, that's what I expected. Your own personal definition (against all the evidence).
Exactly. He'd be playing a completely different role nowdays, but would still dominate, because he was the master of pushing up then pushing back and running onto a mark. Very few defenders today 9or of any era) could match his combo of size, strength, stamina and mobility.
Who ?
It's silly comparing FFs of that era to CHFs.
Marks inside 50
Year:Kennedy:Franklin
2017: 3.79: 2.71
2016: 3.78: 2.85
2015: 4.04: 2.54
2014: 2.80: 3.45
2013: 2.95: 2.24
2012: Kennedy missed 16 matches
2011: 2.95: 2.24
Contested Marks (not factoring the high likelihood that Franklin took more of these outside the 50 metre arc)
Year:Kennedy:Franklin
2017: 1.79: 1.67
2016: 1.83: 1.62
2015: 1.56: 1.00
2014: 0.85: 2.32
2013: 1.62: 1.24
2012: Kennedy missed 16 matches
2011: 2.22: 1.77
Goals
Year:Kennedy:Franklin
2017: 3.63: 3.04
2016: 3.57: 3.12
2015: 3.20: 2.76
2014: 3.05: 3.59
2013: 2.86: 2.86
2012: Kennedy missed 16 matches
2011: 2.57: 3.73
When I saw you'd quoted me I thought you might be thanking me for providing the "all-round" reference you craved. But, alas, no.Have a look around, there are plenty!
Not when looking for the GOAT, everyone is compared to each other, like the Ablett F&S!
What about before that? Where was Kennedy?
Contested marking, high marking, kicking skills off both feet, footy IQ, balance i.e. centre of gravity, leadership, courage, aggression, timing, and the ability to stand up in critical moments within games.
Carey had it all. Franklin has some of it.
Growing in to the body of a KPF.
Franklin had his HFF skills to fall back on.
True KPF's almost always have delayed development. Usually the longest, only behind ruckmen. Most good footy judges know this.
Contested marking, high marking, kicking skills off both feet, footy IQ, balance i.e. centre of gravity, leadership, courage, aggression, timing, and the ability to stand up in critical moments within games.
Carey had it all. Franklin has some of it.