Opinion Has this Carlton list already peaked?

[Fadge]

Looking at Carlton's 2023 finals teams, it seems they had most of their best 25 to 30 players available, including the aforementioned 5 players who regularly missed a lot of games.

How many teams have their best 25 to 30 players to choose from during a finals series?

Can anyone tell me which players were missing for that finals series?

 

[Fadge]

What you are actually saying is that our players will get worse with form.
Understand Cripps wont have his his 12 best on ground performance year, might only have 10. Who else is getting worse, and also assuming that you think no players will become better either.

But this is the same narrative you guys have been running with over the past three years, and it still hasn't happened.

 

[Worm4]

But this is the same narrative you guys have been running with over the past three years, and it still hasn't happened.

Again, avoiding the question. Don't know why I bother.

 

[Fadge]

Again, avoiding the question. Don't know why I bother.

What question?

 

[Worm4]

What question?

Well, if you took the time to read my previous thread, I asked which players are going to get worse with form.

 

[Fadge]

Well, if you took the time to read my previous thread, I asked which players are going to get worse with form.

When you ask a question, it needs to be qualified with a question mark.

Comprehend?

 

[Worm4]

When you ask a question, it needs to be qualified with a question mark.

Comprehend?

So you're the punctuation monitor as well (?) Righteo !! FmD !@#$$&*

 

[Mr Meow]

So you're the punctuation monitor as well (?) Righteo !! FmD !@#$$&*

I believe meltdowns are meant to go in the banter thread.

 

[Worm4]

I believe meltdowns are meant to go in the banter thread.

It's not a meltdown..it's a response to a poster who refuses to answer this simple question - which players are you expecting to lose form from 2024 ?
I expect Curnow, Walsh, DeKoning and Cerra to improve going into 2025.
I expect a bit less from Saad, Acres, docherty,
I expect similar output from most of the other regulars.
I'm sure 2 things will happen with this statement - a laughing emoji from the number 1 non Carlton contributor to the thread, and a BS response from same poster who in turn, won't answer the question directly put forward

 

[JustaBattler]

When you ask a question, it needs to be qualified with a question mark.

Comprehend?

Goodness gracious me - the laclk of basic literacy levels of some...

FYI Fudgee :

A queston mark isn't a 'qualifier' - it is an "eroteme"

You are welcome!

 

[Worm4]

Goodness gracious me - the laclk of basic literacy levels of some...

FYI Fudgee :

A queston mark isn't a 'qualifier' - it is an "eroteme"

You are welcome!

Be careful, he will point out your spelling error and call you illiterate

 

[Mr Meow]

It's not a meltdown..it's a response to a poster who refuses to answer this simple question - which players are you expecting to lose form from 2024 ?
I expect Curnow, Walsh, DeKoning and Cerra to improve going into 2025.
I expect a bit less from Saad, Acres, docherty,
I expect similar output from most of the other regulars.
I'm sure 2 things will happen with this statement - a laughing emoji from the number 1 non Carlton contributor to the thread, and a BS response from same poster who in turn, won't answer the question directly put forward

Firstly, thanks for taking me off your block list or continuing to read my posts while I am on it.

It looks like there is pretty much no one's opinion you value less than Fadge's. Yet you ask him a million questions and get very frustrated at the answer or lack thereof every time. So I don't really understand what asking him to predict x, y and z about your team achieves. Would be as meaningful as me getting you to predict how the Cats will go in 2025 or whether Stengle will kick 40 goals.

As for your question, it's a foolish exercise to complete as players even in their peak have form fluctuations year on year. There's no way to be able to predict that.

 

[Fadge]

Firstly, thanks for taking me off your block list or continuing to read my posts while I am on it.

It looks like there is pretty much no one's opinion you value less than Fadge's. Yet you ask him a million questions and get very frustrated at the answer or lack thereof every time. So I don't really understand what asking him to predict x, y and z about your team achieves. Would be as meaningful as me getting you to predict how the Cats will go in 2025 or whether Stengle will kick 40 goals.

As for your question, it's a foolish exercise to complete as players even in their peak have form fluctuations year on year. There's no way to be able to predict that.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

I've lost count of the number of times I've commented on the reasonable run with injury Carlton have had with their elite half dozen players (with TDK joint that group this year).

They've had 12, 13 and 13 win seasons the past 3 years, whilst those players have been at their peak, and Carlton supporting posters on this forum (at least some of them) pat themselves on the back for 'bridging the 5 game gap between them and Collingwood'.

There are 16 other teams in the competition aside from Carlton and Collingwood, and many of them would be banking on internal development and an improved run with injury, but they also understand the importance of using trading and free agency to bring in proven talent to their team, who have displayed what they can (and can't do) at AFL level.

But for some reason, Carlton don't think they need to do that, because they will bridge the gap between 'contending for finals' and 'contending for a premiership' simply by the internal growth and a better run with injury.

It astounds me.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Blues banking on internal improvement and better injury luck after heading to the draft... Groundbreaking stuff

As always though, still hasn't answered Worm's question re who he thinks will have a reduced output in 2025 from our best players.

 

[Worm4]

Firstly, thanks for taking me off your block list or continuing to read my posts while I am on it.

It looks like there is pretty much no one's opinion you value less than Fadge's. Yet you ask him a million questions and get very frustrated at the answer or lack thereof every time. So I don't really understand what asking him to predict x, y and z about your team achieves. Would be as meaningful as me getting you to predict how the Cats will go in 2025 or whether Stengle will kick 40 goals.

As for your question, it's a foolish exercise to complete as players even in their peak have form fluctuations year on year. There's no way to be able to predict that.

The question gets asked because he continually states how the list has got weaker to a point where he thinks Carlton will finish bottom 4, yet cant produce anything other than the fact that they traded out Owies and Kennedy, without acknowledging any form of increased output by players such as DeKoning, Motlop, or curnow who clearly all played injured last year and were mismanaged.
Also, who can take him seriously when he has West Coast as favourite to beat Carlton gather round.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

The question gets asked because he continually states how the list has got weaker to a point where he thinks Carlton will finish bottom 4, yet cant produce anything ither than facts other thantrading out Owies and Kennedy, without acknowledging any form of increased output by players such as DeKoning, Motlop, or curnow who clearly all played injured last year and were mismanaged.
Also, who can take him seriously when he has West Coast as favourite to beat Carlton gather round.

Two players he's absolutely ripped into for years and years saying neither are any good too btw. Losing them should be an automatic improvement according to his ratings of them.

 

[Fadge]

Two players he's absolutely ripped into for years and years saying neither are any good too btw. Losing them should be an automatic improvement according to his ratings of them.

They were by no means superstars, but for whatever reason good enough to play 47 of a possible 48 games for Carlton last year, so there needs to be some players to step up and fill that void just to break even with Carlton's 2024 level, let alone improve it.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

They were by no means superstars, but for whatever reason good enough to play 47 of a possible 48 games for Carlton last year, so there needs to be some players to step up and fill that void just to break even with Carlton's 2024 level, let alone improve it.

You told us they'd be the 30-35th ranked players on Collingwoods list. Given that's a team that failed to make finals I'd say that equates to them being pretty bloody shite.

Which is it? Good players that will be missed or garbage players which obviously won't be missed by default?

 

[Fadge]

You told us they'd be the 30-35th ranked players on Collingwoods list. Given that's a team that failed to make finals I'd say that equates to them being pretty bloody shite.

Which is it? Good players that will be missed or garbage players which obviously won't be missed by default?

They would be.

The Pies had a down year after the flag in 2023.

They will be missed by a Carlton side who has peaked with a 13 win home and away season.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

They would be.

The Pies had a down year after the flag in 2023.

They will be missed by a Carlton side who has peaked with a 13 win home and away season.

Lmao. Clueless.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Someone remind me how many players are on an AFL list these days? Theres no way Kennedy or Owies are behind any of these spuds so I'm wondering where these other mythical 30-35 players ahead of them on the Pies list are...

1- Harry Demattia
2- Wil Parker
3- Ed Allan
4- Billy Frampton
5- Fin Macrae
6- Tew Jiath
7- Iliro Smit
8- Oscar Steene
9- Jakob Ryan
10- Reef McInnes
11- Joel Cochran
12- Charlie West
13- Lachlan Sullivan
14- Harvey Harrison
15- Oleg Markov
16- William Hayes
17- Ash Johnson
18- Charlie Dean
19- Ned Long
20- Mason Cox

Blues may miss the known value and reliability of Owies and Kennedy in 2025, but they'll be banking on some of our more unknown players having a greater impact over the season and into the future who better fit the list and team needs of our AFL squad.

I'd much rather a slight drop off in performance from Owies to Moir if it means we get to fast track his development for later in the year and beyond.

 

[carlton_99]

I've lost count of the number of times I've commented on the reasonable run with injury Carlton have had with their elite half dozen players (with TDK joint that group this year).

If this was the NBA you may have a point but when a team has a list of 45 and 23 make the final team every week looking at injuries to only the top 6 is pretty nonsensical.

They've had 12, 13 and 13 win seasons the past 3 years, whilst those players have been at their peak, and Carlton supporting posters on this forum (at least some of them) pat themselves on the back for 'bridging the 5 game gap between them and Collingwood'.

Yes in a Carlton V Collingwood thread Carlton fans were happy to finish above Collingwood after hundreds of pages of banter between the two supporter bases. I'm shocked...

Havent seen a single Carlton supporter that was happy with the overall 2024 season and how it finished.

There are 16 other teams in the competition aside from Carlton and Collingwood, and many of them would be banking on internal development and an improved run with injury, but they also understand the importance of using trading and free agency to bring in proven talent to their team, who have displayed what they can (and can't do) at AFL level.

We have brought in players via trade and free agency for years. One of our glaring holes is a point of difference in the midfield with pace, agility and spread from the contest. The only player that matches that in the trade period was Bailey Smith who was headed to Geelong from a long way out. However, this year's draft, especially at the top was brimming with these types of players. So we used that to try fill a gap in the list.

On your comment about other teams also hoping for an improved run with injuries that is very fair. The difference ofc is even an average run with injuries would be a significant upgrade on Carlton's recent injury runs. That is not the case for all teams. And as I've mentioned before they aren't leaving it to luck - the club has made a bunch of decisions to improve this area including delisting a bunch of injury prone players, hiring a new head of high performance and re-doing the turf at Ikon Park.

 

[rapidfire7]

Whilst I have a few doubts if they can win a flag with this group, they aren't old. Not even a little bit.

 

[76woodenspooners]

This list is capable of winning the flag in 2025 but I guess you could say that about half the comp.

To be fair, Carlton folks were saying the same thing at this stage of the 2015 season …

… on the way to an eventual wooden spoon.