Have Geelong become too powerful?

[PhatBoy]

I wrote a comprehensive comparison in the opening post, and your response was:

and now you are lying by insinuating I'm just saying 'this player equals this player', even when I prefixed that post with just for fun.

Why are you behaving like this?

Your comprehensive comparison is simply equating this player from hawthorn with this player from Geelong.

Do you think the other teams from now are going to progress/regress the same way they did in 2019? Do you think our players will all develop the same way Hawthorn’s did? O’Meara was not even good in the first place so God only knows why that was viewed as being some sort of world beating recruitment move. Do you think that the next 1-2 draft classes will be exactly the same as 2018-2019? That our extra-curricular drafting from the rookie draft and from other sources where we seem to pluck players from like Blicavs and mature recruits etc will all be the same as hawthorn in 2018?

2010. 14 seasons of predictions. You’d think people wouldn’t bother by now but no.

 

[Jake98]

Your comprehensive comparison is simply equating this player from hawthorn with this player from Geelong.

Nope. You didn't read a single word.

 

[CharacterFirst]

We are powerful because we cheat.

Look at yesterday.

We only won because we forced Freo to wear that old jumper. Unrivalled power and influence.

We have:
Cheat grounds - KP of course, but every ground we play on is a cheat ground for us.
Cheat Steve Hocking.
Cheat beaches.
Cheat houses and pubs for a dollar a pop.
Cheat list management.
Cheat drafting.
Cheat trading.
Cheat rural land around Geelong.
Cheat Coach.
Cheat aging list.
Cheat player development.
Cheat umpires.
Cheat youth.
Cheat rules just for us and always against Richmond.
Cheat lifestyle options.
Cheat 'media plants' and their coverage.
Cheat Federal and State political seats.
Cheat travel.
Cheat close to Melbourne.
Cheat not Melbourne.
Cheat father/sons.
Cheat 'true' foundation club.
Cheat stadium funding.
Cheat culture.
Cheat cheap drinks for Tyson.
Cheat player manger relationships.
Cheat surf breaks.
Cheat golf courses.
Cheat fishing spots.
Cheat clothing sponsors.
Cheat cost of living.
Cheat we are not Hawthorn bigots, Essendon chemists, Richmond child abusers, Collingwood xenophobes etc., etc.
Cheat fixture.
Cheat ugly players.
Cheat widely admired players.
Cheat mature and intelligent players.
Cheat Irish recruits.
Cheat players returning home to play.
Cheat players taking under for club success.
Cheat best TV deals.
Cheat greener grass.
Cheat colder in winter meaning more CottonOn freebies.
Cheat "stand rule".
Cheat ruined Tiggers by forcing Hardwick into adultery.
Cheat injury recovery.
Cheat only get 8-9 home games.
Cheat get to play home finals at the opposition teams home ground.
Cheat because we are not St Kilda.

There are a few other cheating scams we have going, but we can't give away all the club secrets.

 

[Lunchtime]

I wonder what Lunchtime thinks?

Who the hell is that?

 

[PhatBoy]

Nope. You didn't read a single word.

Well yeah I did. You just compared player A to player B. It means nothing.

It’s what you WANT to happen mate. It’s not rooted in any reason at all.

If you were applying any critical analysis you’d acknowledge that Hawthorn in 2008 were surrounded by a current dominant dynasty side in Richmond and Hawthorn themselves were 3 full seasons removed from a flag. The Cats are not in the middle of a dynasty era: the Magpies are almost certain not to win any more flags with their current team and it’s likely that the Cats won’t be winning this year either, and the Demons won’t either. So there is no current multiple flag team that’s going to the the dominant force that we are trying to keep pace with like the Hawks were in 2018 with Richmond.

The state of the competition itself is not remotely comparable let alone the teams.

Again, 14 straight years of ‘the cliff.’

Learn.

 

[catters_28]

Just flicked on the TV... sorry but at this point half the reason we are so powerful is because of everyone else's ineptitude.

Blues are a rabble. Add Essendon to that boat too.

Sides so big and "powerful" have no excuse to be this shit but so it goes. Long may it continue.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

Imo your cliff is whatever happens with Cameron. Your midfield isn’t great and without Cameron your forward line isn’t either like lynch with us.

He saved you the game and likely gave you a top 4 spot when he kicked 6.

You might be correct, but it's rarely linear like that.

If none of the kids develop and we bring nobody in for 2-3 years before he retires, then you're probably right...but that seems highly, highly unlikely.

I was the same a few years back. Circa 2018/19 I thought we were well and truly f***ed once Hawkins retires...not knowing that Cameron was just around the corner and Neale wasn't far away either.

Teams change through personnel over years. It's why it's so hard to project sides fortunes into the future. It's never linear.

Over the last decade alone, at different stages we've had:

- A great backline, mediocre midfield, and poor forward line.

- A great backline, great midfield, and poor forward line.

- A poor backline, great midfield, and poor forwardline.

- A pretty good backline, mediocre midfield, and great forward line.

That's all just within 10 years of gameplans changing, players developing and being traded in, players being traded out - or retiring - and everything in between.

What you're saying obviously can't be ruled out...but we can't just assume that nobody is going to improve, or be added to our list in that timeframe either.

 

[MisterMarcus]

I don't think that is necessarily true. Hawthorn fans at the time were arguing that Clarko was still replenishing the list with youth, on top of trading for experienced players. They were all talking up the likes of Worpel, Sicily, Hardwick, Impey, O'Meara, Morrison, Cousins, M.Lewis and Burton before they traded him. They were making the exact same arguments you see from Geelong now, that you don't need to bottom out or stockpile top 10 picks to build a Premiership-winning side.

There is no doubt Geelong have some good young players, but there's a difference between Geelong's young players and a serious A-Grade quality core. Someone like Oliver Dempsey is reminiscent of James Worpel in 2018, a good young player plucked from the haystack, but not even close to the level of a Harley Reid, or a Bontempelli, or a Sheezel, or an Ashcroft.

Picking up Bailey Smith for a first rounder + mayo is a fairly expensive commitment to the next 5 years. Looking at Geelong's list right now and their potential for the next 5 years, I do not think they will be able to keep up with GWS, the Bulldogs, Brisbane(who are soon getting another Ashcroft), Sydney, Carlton, Hawthorn, and possibly Port Power, Gold Coast, Fremantle.

In the four years before 2018, Hawthorn:

• Traded out 3 first rounder picks for experienced players
• Only took 1 first round pick in the previous four drafts
• Had 3 picks over the entire period inside Pick 40.
• Had several drafts where they had no pick at all until the mid 40s.

In the four years before 2024, Geelong:

• Used 3 first round picks in the previous four drafts.
• Actively traded back IN to the first round on two occasions.
• Used 9 picks over the entire period inside Pick 40
• Never had a draft where our first pick was later than 24.

Doesn't seem like a very valid comparison at all, really. Hawthorn gave up almost all their good picks in the preceding years, Geelong have kept theirs.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

In the four years before 2018, Hawthorn:

• Traded out 3 first rounder picks for experienced players
• Only took 1 first round pick in the previous four drafts
• Had 3 picks over the entire period inside Pick 40.
• Had several drafts where they had no pick at all until the mid 40s.

In the four years before 2024, Geelong:

• Used 3 first round picks in the previous four drafts.
• Actively traded back IN to the first round on two occasions.
• Used 9 picks over the entire period inside Pick 40
• Never had a draft where our first pick was later than 24.

Doesn't seem like a very valid comparison at all, really. Hawthorn gave up almost all their good picks in the preceding years, Geelong have kept theirs.

Don't feed him. It's the same gimmick every week on multiple accounts.

Even the Bailey Smith stuff, which nobody else bothers to bring up except old mate.

Imagine the narrative if literally any other club had two rising star nominations for the year, the winner of the award in waiting, three players in the 22 & under squad, and a 21 year old likely leading it's best & fairest.

...But because it's Geelong, we'll go down the "toO olD ToO slOW" shallow analysis once again.

 

[Mr Meow]

Mindlessly claiming the contrary isn't going to get you anywhere. You didn't read it, time to let go and move on. Discussions like this are clearly above you.

If rebuilds were broken into meals: we have almost finished breakfast while keeping an eye on lunchtime, with dinner still a way off yet.

 

[MisterMarcus]

There's worse things to be than Hawthorn 2018.

We could be Richmond 2024....

 

[STPer18]

Brute forced our way through the rebuild with sheer power. Way too powerful.

 

[Jake98]

lol. Ok mate.
Again, person doesn’t agree with you, reason must be that they didn’t read your statement.

No you just didn't read it at all. You inferred something completely different. Sorry you couldn't manage it.

 

[PhatBoy]

No you just didn't read it at all. You inferred something completely different. Sorry you couldn't manage it.

Ok mate. Terrific comparison

Hope it comes true and saves you some therapy bills

 

[Jake98]

Here’s a tip.

Here's a tip, maybe stop insulting other users every time they scrutinize Geelong.

 

[PhatBoy]

Here's a tip, maybe stop insulting other users every time they scrutinize Geelong.

Scrutinise them all you want. But if you do it to a shithouse standard, under the veil of some sort of ‘expert analysis’ when in reality it’s nothing more than a rehashing of an effort that has been made literally thousands of times, and with no depth whatsoever, and even more so when it’s blatantly obvious that it’s prompted more by a desire for it to be true than any likelihood of it happen, expect people to take the piss out of it.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

Scrutinise them all you want. But if you do it to a shithouse standard, under the veil of some sort of ‘expert analysis’ when in reality it’s nothing more than a rehashing of an effort that has been made literally thousands of times, and with no depth whatsoever, and even more so when it’s blatantly obvious that it’s prompted more by a desire for it to be true than any likelihood of it happen, expect people to take the piss out of it.

....And do it on your real account too.

If you know what you're saying is going to get you banned, then don't expect anyone to take you seriously.

 

[The Casey Cat]

Here's a tip, maybe stop insulting other users every time they scrutinize Geelong.

Scrutiizing is not equal to posting ignorant, subjective rubbish. Already completely debunked also. Lean years ahead of not Geelong are not like Hawthorn 2018. No matter how much you want them to be.

 

[Jake98]

Scrutinise them all you want. But if you do it to a shithouse standard, under the veil of some sort of ‘expert analysis’ when in reality it’s nothing more than a rehashing of an effort that has been made literally thousands of times, and with no depth whatsoever, and even more so when it’s blatantly obvious that it’s prompted more by a desire for it to be true than any likelihood of it happen, expect people to take the piss out of it.

No, you just need to learn how to read and not call people morons because you're too precious about any kind of criticism towards your club.

 

[Jake98]

Scrutiizing is not equal to posting ignorant, subjective rubbish. Already completely debunked also. Lean years ahead of not Geelong are not like Hawthorn 2018. No matter how much you want them to be.

That's just you being precious.
The comparison is valid and there are clear similarities between Geelong in 2024 and Hawthorn in 2018. These similarities will be amplified when Bailey Smith is traded in for a first round pick + extras.

 

[Mr Meow]

That's just you being precious.
The comparison is valid and there are clear similarities between Geelong in 2024 and Hawthorn in 2018. These similarities will be amplified when Bailey Smith is traded in for a first round pick + extras.

Debunked.

Do you have anything else to offer?

 

[geelong_crazy26]

There is in general with especially the younger generation and those on the woke agenda of thinking that achievements happen due to inequities and someone being disadvantaged. These people don’t understand hard work and talent is what drives success, not inequities.

 

[MisterMarcus]

There is in general with especially the younger generation and those on the woke agenda of thinking that achievements happen due to inequities and someone being disadvantaged. These people don’t understand hard work and talent is what drives success, not inequities.

And almost all of the issues clubs face are by their own design. Not through 'inequalities' or nefarious conspiracy.

Traditionally big and powerful clubs like Essendon and Carlton have had long droughts of success due to poor decisions. Multi-premiership winning clubs like Hawthorn and Richmond fell away very badly very quickly due to poor decisions. Gold Coast have been given squillions in AFL handouts and benefits, and are still mediocre due to poor decisions.

 

[PhatBoy]

No, you just need to learn how to read and not call people morons because you're too precious about any kind of criticism towards your club.

The only person I’ve called a moron was someone who posted a thread saying that we would be in the grand final this year.

I read plenty well. You weren’t criticising our club, were you? You were giving detailed analysis - at least that’s what you were calling it - and at any rate, predicting our following of the Hawks isn’t criticism, is it.

But it wasn’t detailed analysis. It was comparing players and a Reject Shop level comparison that factored in absolutely nothing else. THATS why it got criticised, that and the fact that the same argument has been made 50,000 times on this very site, long before you - or anyone ‘like’ your current account at least - joined. The games foremost so called analyst who is still inexplicably getting a gig fronting Fox Sports’ flagship post-mortem show each week was the first one to do it 15 seasons ago and here we are.

 

[STPer18]

OK I lied, I crunched the numbers and this is actually only 5% of our full power.