Analysis Hawks 2022 Hypothetical trades (read the pinned post)

[Strapping Young Lad]

Firstly, the "No Kane Cornes

Kane Cornes

Age

42

Ht

183cm

Wt

78kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.5

5star

K

12.5

5star

HB

11.0

5star

M

5.2

5star

T

3.3

5star

CL

2.6

4star

No current season stats available

D

13.0

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.2

3star

" Rule is back

 

[Ned Ryerson]

We can't negotiate from a position of weakness mate. Sam wanted Tom gone, it's pretty much impossible to talk a tough game and threaten to walk away from a trade in that situation.

Especially when Tom is a depreciating asset who will have next to no value when he’s uncontracted. If he breaks his leg tomorrow also we are utterly screwed. We extracted what value we could.

 

[jenniferHAWKinS]

Surely we trade our 4 3rd round selections for 2 of the Lions 2nd round selections.
35 and 36 for 41, 48, 50 and 52 netts them an extra 200 points for father son bids.

 

[Flukey!]

we did well tonight


and with the delistings

we stuffed up not getting the Bowes deal done though

I would have made Gunston captain too and retained him given all that are gone

Why do people still think Bowes was a mistake.
Geelong had been courting him for months.

Its like saying we missed out on Lynch when he went to the Tigers.
They had him locked in about 18 months before we had even heard he was available.

 

[Davo-27]

So after all that waiting it was

Mitchell for C.Stephens and pick 41 and 50?

Omeara for Meek and future (pick 30 approx)

Amon in as FA

Gunston for pick 48 and f4th?

I guess they are hoping to bundle all those shit pick to Brisbane or Essendon, or else we're shit out of luck.

If we can trade those shit picks for something and that doggies 2nd rounder turns into 25 or something I think we win big, some serious TOM and JOM love here now that we're trading them.

 

[eldorado]

W

Pies spun gold on this one.

I don't see it that way.

They got pick 25 and a 30 year old quality player..but had to lose a 19-20 year old player they ranked extremely highly and were desperate to keep.

Nor do I think we got shafted on this deal...particularly with live trading a factor

I think it actually works out fair to all parties.

 

[eldorado]

, some serious TOM and JOM love here now that we're trading them.

yeah, where was it for the last 4 years?

 

[Steven Tyler]

Am I a ******* idiot for thinking we got exactly what we wanted and totally aced that trade period??

Well, you are Adrian Dodoro, so………….

 

[Alite]

The talk about 2023 was gonna be bad anyway..we are aiming for 2024 is rubbish.
We are bottom 4 for 4 plus years.
We don’t even have a good draft hand. May do next year, but there will need to be 3-4 years development.
Good kids we currently have are ok.
Look, if the plan is success and flag from 2027-2028 on.. great..but it will be a hard next 4-5 years..

Watching a young group develop for me is exciting! not “hard”. I will not see the losses, instead I’ll see the players develop into a cohesive tightly focused group.

NOT one of the 17 other teams were knocking down the Hawks door for either Titch or JOM for good reason. I, like others, hoped for better trade deals, but don’t think the ones we got were not too bad either.

Frankly, I mostly feel relieved that the reset has happened. Knowing the path that you are on makes the path easy to follow and I am All-In for the journey.

“Hard” is being a StKilda supporter. There time should be now but … damn... they do not have a path.

 

[ralphwiggum]

this is on the provision Davey gets bedded on before 22 which he should be

I don't like how the outcomes of our list management machinations hinges on Davey Jr.'s sex life

 

[TDS7]

Seems like some people were so primed to melt that thye did it regardless of the outcome.

We got what we wanted.

Stephens isn't a plodder or a battler, he's an in-and-under fast hand mid stuck behind a midfield of the best in-and-unders in the league.

Meek gives us a good ruckman with potential to be great, but also gives us another body in case Reeves or Lynch go down. Remember the Kozi/Nash/Callow ruck combos?

We lost JOM for a mid-late 2nd and a guy we were prepared to pay a 3rd for. That's fair value, not as good as GWS were offering but not bad for a guy who isn't playing his best position with us and not in our next finals run.

We were playing Titch as a half forward, begging him to be gone, but expected the one club interested to pay a high second. We got decent value in two thirds and a good young player out of it. It's a better outcome than holding him to his contract.

We got something for Gunner when we could have gotten nothing.

We paid for the threepeat by sacrificing the 28-32 age bracket of today, we weren't gonna fix that overnight. Good drafting, good development and a breakout year or two and we are a finals team in 2 or 3 painful years. Would you rather that, or sit pretty at 9th-13th for the next decade and pull up a chair next to the Saints, Blues, and Bombers? Y'all wanted bold, this is bold.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Why do people still think Bowes was a mistake.
Geelong had been courting him for months.

Its like saying we missed out on Lynch when he went to the Tigers.
They had him locked in about 18 months before we had even heard he was available.

Correct. We threw all we could at a kid who only had eyes on one team/city. It was unfortunate for us but not a mistake/failing.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

yeah, where was it for the last 4 years?

Tom has his fair share of fairly rusted on supporters. JOM - not so much.

 

[Alite]

Seems like some people were so primed to melt that thye did it regardless of the outcome.

We got what we wanted.

Stephens isn't a plodder or a battler, he's an in-and-under fast hand mid stuck behind a midfield of the best in-and-unders in the league.

Meek gives us a good ruckman with potential to be great, but also gives us another body in case Reeves or Lynch go down. Remember the Kozi/Nash/Callow ruck combos?

We lost JOM for a mid-late 2nd and a guy we were prepared to pay a 3rd for. That's fair value, not as good as GWS were offering but not bad for a guy who isn't playing his best position with us and not in our next finals run.

We were playing Titch as a half forward, begging him to be gone, but expected the one club interested to pay a high second. We got decent value in two thirds and a good young player out of it. It's a better outcome than holding him to his contract.

We got something for Gunner when we could have gotten nothing.

We paid for the threepeat by sacrificing the 28-32 age bracket of today, we weren't gonna fix that overnight. Good drafting, good development and a breakout year or two and we are a finals team in 2 or 3 painful years. Would you rather that, or sit pretty at 9th-13th for the next decade and pull up a chair next to the Saints, Blues, and Bombers? Y'all wanted bold, this is bold.

For emphasis … This

 

[HawthornHawk]

Why do people still think Bowes was a mistake.
Geelong had been courting him for months.

Its like saying we missed out on Lynch when he went to the Tigers.
They had him locked in about 18 months before we had even heard he was available.

That's exactly why it was a mistake. We should have been courting him the moment the Will Brodie trade went through last year

 

[Ned Ryerson]

That's exactly why it was a mistake. We should have been courting him the moment the Will Brodie trade went through last year

So McKenzie and Mitchell should have also had the precognitive ability to have foreseen the AFL approving salary dumps on the eve of the trade period 11 months before it happened?

Good lord I know people want to take out their frustration on people at the club - but expecting them to have supernatural abilities is a tad unfair.

 

[Spook]

We need 2 ruckman. We have always had a ruck and Ruck forward in our successful years. We don’t always need to play both but we need injury insurance and flexibility. I really like Meek from Freo, he’s a country boy and only held back due to Darcy being so good. He’s been on the system the 5 or so years and been developed training against Darcy day in day out. I say trade JOM to Freo (Mundy replacement) for Meek and freo third rounder. = 40 ish

Pretty much as it turned out.

 

[HawthornHawk]

So McKenzie and Mitchell should have also had the precognitive ability to have foreseen the AFL approving salary dumps on the eve of the trade period 11 months before it happened?

Good lord I know people want to take out their frustration on people at the club - but expecting them to have supernatural abilities is a tad unfair.

The Brodie deal wasn't a salary dump?

 

[bradburygold]

Happy with MM's drafting and the direction of the list (which is now #TeamReid mode), but clearly trading is not a strength of the list management team. Now we have the 900k Clarko money to spare could we use some of that to supplement the team, or is it spent? Would we risk losing MM draft capabilities if he saw it as a massive downgrade of responsibilities? He was dealt a very poor hand (Hawks being seen as pushovers historically no fault of his and the public shopping of players tanked their value).

 

[Khmerhawk]

Even if these trades come up roses people will still whine about them as nauseum. It’s 6 years on despite Morrison playing 78 games for us people whine about that Mitchell trade every.single.trade.period.

Did that trade get us Mitch Lewis ?

 

[Alite]

So McKenzie and Mitchell should have also had the precognitive ability to have foreseen the AFL approving salary dumps on the eve of the trade period 11 months before it happened?

Good lord I know people want to take out their frustration on people at the club - but expecting them to have supernatural abilities is a tad unfair.

With respect Ned, the salary dump of Brodie and pick 19(?) did happen last year. The AFL “allowing it” only made the known illegal, but happening with AFL consent activity, fully legal. Sort of like Biden and marijuana - Google Search

Every list manager worth their salt should have been on the concept of the Suns next salary dump And been in touch with every out of favour player at the Suns.

Mr Wells from the Cats was the one on the ball... but was assisted by the AFL wanting to help their leper team by making what was illigel now legal… as they do.

We were in the conversation for Bowes and Pick 7. You can lead a horse to water but not make an AFL player smart. If he was smart he would have chosen us. Consider this:

Bowes chose to go to the premiership winning team …. Who just had their most loved son Joel Selwood retire. And he wants, and was reportedly promised, midfield minutes! Yet many other players already have Selwood‘s spot sewn up. So Bowes now has to deliver Selwood like performances. Not an easy thing to do… Bowes is setting himself to be the kicking boy at the Cats with the tag… “we only got him for pick 7”.

And worse: Bowes has now pushed out Dangerfield’s protege in Cooper Stevens… someone every Cat fan who knows stuff rates.

If time reveals that Cooper Stevens is better than Jack Bowes, then the Cats effectively bought pick 7 for 1 million dollars. I know there is more to it but the guts are accurate.

Whatever happens I will now be tracking the careers of Cooper Stephen’s vs Jack Bowes.


If it was a book it would be the story of the comparison of a player who made a mint from playing few games against a player who made a career playing AFL.

Yes I get carried away… but why not

 

[MasterSamurai]

Tom and Jom leaving isn't such a biggie for me, it's just the clusterf**K of nothing picks we've accumulated!! Maybe 41 isn't so bad as it may turn to 35 but it is a shallow draft so therefore, we're bit unlucky all the stars lined up, but in a criss-cross way!! Now, can we do something with 24&41 ? The top 12-15 draftees are quite good gets but then a drop off.

 

[theiaofseed]

Brisbane still only have enough points for Ashcroft but not Fletcher, 41,48,50 and 52 will turn into 2 picks in the 30's. We're the only team with the draft capital to get those trades done.
Meek has similar potential as Reeves and we'd all be annoyed if we lost Reeves for a third round pick, we now have 3 picks inside 30 next year.
We gain 3 best 22 players while improving our draft hand in both 2022 and 2023.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

The Brodie deal wasn't a salary dump?

With respect Ned, the salary dump of Brodie and pick 19(?) did happen last year. The AFL “allowing it” only made the known illegal, but happening with AFL consent activity, fully legal. Sort of like Biden and marijuana - Google Search

Every list manager worth their salt should have been on the concept of the Suns next salary dump And been in touch with every out of favour player at the Suns.

Mr Wells from the Cats was the one on the ball... but was assisted by the AFL wanting to help their leper team by making what was illigel now legal… as they do.

We were in the conversation for Bowes and Pick 7. You can lead a horse to water but not make an idiot AFL player smart. If he was smart he would have chosen us. Consider this:

Bowes chose to go to the premiership winning team …. Who just had their most loved son Joel Selwood retire. And he wants, and was reportedly promised, midfield minutes! Yet many other players already have Selwood‘s spot sewn up. So Bowes now has to deliver Selwood like performances.

And worse: Bowes has now pushed out Dangerfield’s protege in Cooper Stevens… someone every Cat fan who knows stuff rates.

If time reveals that Cooper Stevens is better than Jack Bowes, then the Cats effectively bought pick 7 for 1.6million dollars. I know there is more to it but the guts are accurate.

Whatever happens I will now be tracking the careers of Cooper Stephen’s vs Jack Bowes.

Okay - so let’s pretend salary dumps are a known unknown then.

If this is the case and Gold Coast are a likely candidate for another one - how are we to know which players are eligible? Bowes contract was in the position it was because the Suns kept pushing his money owed back into the final years of his contract. We can’t know this was the case.

That Bowes ended up on the Cats radar earlier in the piece - probable situation would be the Suns went to Bowes early in the piece and told him to look elsewhere as they signed other players to deals and his position in the side diminished. He considered his options, spoke to his management and decided to chat to Geelong due to lifestyle factors as well as the fact that they’re a contending team with ageing midfielders.

Again - there is not logical way McKenzie or anyone at the club could know the internal machinations of the Suns or that they would be looking to jettison Bowes with 2 years to run on his deal. It only hit the news just before trade period at which time multiple clubs went after him.

 

[Alite]

Okay - so let’s pretend salary dumps are a known unknown then.

If this is the case and Gold Coast are a likely candidate for another one - how are we to know which players are eligible? Bowes contract was in the position it was because the Suns kept pushing his money owed back into the final years of his contract. We can’t know this was the case.

That Bowes ended up on the Cats radar earlier in the piece - probable situation would be the Suns went to Bowes early in the piece and told him to look elsewhere as they signed other players to deals and his position in the side diminished. He considered his options, spoke to his management and decided to chat to Geelong due to lifestyle factors as well as the fact that they’re a contending team with ageing midfielders.

Again - there is not logical way McKenzie or anyone at the club could know the internal machinations of the Suns or that they would be looking to jettison Bowes with 2 years to run on his deal. It only hit the news just before trade period at which time multiple clubs went after him.

I see your argument… that Bowes‘ back ended contract could not be known to McKenzie.
But surely Bowes’ manager would know and be active in saying that his player is not getting the time in the midfield that he wants and may be open to a move. Mark McKenzie does not have to know … he just needs to see a possibility and ask player‘s manager if a move is possible.

I am not saying this did not happen… only that it should have happened. Getting to the Cats may have been Bowes’ goal and if so, the manager did his job.

The thing we will never know is whether Jack Bowes knew that getting to the Hawks was his best chance of establishing himself as a midfielder.

He may do it at the Cats but it was a risky move. If he chose the Hawks, it was near guaranteed.

For mine Bowes made a bad call for his career. And if Cooper Stephens becomes the player that most Cat fans and Dangerfield think he will be…. Let’s just say there is much to play out.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I see your argument… that Bowes‘ back ended contract could not be known to McKenzie.
But surely Bowes’ manager would know and be active in saying that his player is not getting the time in the midfield that he wants and may be open to a move. Mark McKenzie does not have to know … he just needs to see a possibility and ask players managers if a move is possible.

I am not saying this did not happen… only that it should have happened.

But this is exactly what happened once clubs became aware of it - us and * were lucky enough to get a final chance. We would have made those pitches of finances/playing time to him but if he wants to move to Geelong over Melbourne and wants to play for Geelong over two sides that finished at the bottom end of the ladder it’s not really hard to figure it out.

Also Bowes would be a competitor like any player - I’m sure he’s not thinking ‘yeah I’m just a VFL plodder like people on Bigfooty say I am - I should just go live where I don’t want to so I can get more senior footy because I’m never going to make it at Geelong’. His manager is also not going to sell him that story. Geelong have sold him on his chance in their midfield as they’ve said yesterday - so he ticks of lifestyle, money and opportunity at the reigning premier. If every decent fringe player wanted more game time then there’d be a line out the door at Arden Street of prospective recruits - we all know this isn’t the case.

This is just missing out plain and simple - people finger pointing at Sam/MM are a bit misguided for mine.