Analysis Hawks 2022 Hypothetical trades (read the pinned post)

[Strapping Young Lad]

Firstly, the "No Kane Cornes

Kane Cornes

Age

41

Ht

183cm

Wt

78kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.5

5star

K

12.5

5star

HB

11.0

5star

M

5.2

5star

T

3.3

5star

CL

2.6

4star

No current season stats available

D

13.0

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.2

3star

" Rule is back

 

[Kanga Commando]

I wonder seeing we traded out these players if it would have been better to let Sicily go as a free agent.

And leave it up to the AFL to decide compensation ?

 

[BobHawk]

You do realise that Mitchell and Omeara were moving on regardless next year right? Omeara made it clear that he wants to finish his career in WA and Mitchell doesn’t suit the game plan and Hawks won’t offer him the money he is after. Letting them go now is better than keeping and getting worse picks next year. Our senior players knew that all this was going to happen this year or next year. Bruest, Sicily and others stuck around because they are invested in the youngsters and plan, not because of Mitchell and Omeara.

From the reporting which I assume is correct, O'Meara wasn't on the trade table until GWS came knocking on the door. Fremantle, knowing we were after their ruck, came in with an offer. With McEvoy and Shiels retiring we have now lost our 5 most senior players. What was received in exchange for Mitchell and O'Meara would not have been something players were expecting. IMO there is not a clear path for where the club is heading, and I believe there will be senior players concerned about this. Not to mention potential recruits down the track. The club has a lot of work to do.

 

[theiaofseed]

What is in dispute here? Failing to mention a 2023 F2?

We are a wooden spoon contender in 2023. I think bottom 4, but only because North and West Coast will continue to be bad at a guess.

You can't say Hawthorn need high draft picks and not just rely on getting lucky deep in the draft and then in the following bloody breath say finishing on the bottom is bad

 

[Angus Young]

damm

 

[Ned Ryerson]

And leave it up to the AFL to decide compensation ?

View attachment 1535281

May want to obscure the rude word if you want the post to say up!

 

[BobHawk]

It can be dismissed when it is beyond hypocritical and just Kane blowing a fuse for the sake of Kane blowing a fuse. He is contradicting what he said about our list a matter of months ago.

As Stranglers posted:

Yet back in May this year he said about JOM and Mitchell:

"They're essentially worthless. What would you get for Tom Mitchell? There wasn’t (a market) last year and there won’t be again this year,” he said.

“He touched the footy 14 times (against Essendon), their (the Bombers) speed was able to expose Hawthorn’s midfield late. (The Hawk were) plodding along. It was very much on display late in that game and they were overrun with the Bombers’ power.

“It’s a real issue for Sam Mitchell and how he manages a midfield that looks very same with the personnel they’ve got.”

I understand what you are saying here but I am not concerned with what Cornes may have said in the past and whether he is a hypocrite or not. My concern is with where the club is at and what was achieved during the trade. And right now, it does not look very good to me.

 

[The hands of stone]

Yet back in May this year he said about JOM and Mitchell:

"They're essentially worthless. What would you get for Tom Mitchell? There wasn’t (a market) last year and there won’t be again this year,” he said.

“He touched the footy 14 times (against Essendon), their (the Bombers) speed was able to expose Hawthorn’s midfield late. (The Hawk were) plodding along. It was very much on display late in that game and they were overrun with the Bombers’ power.

“It’s a real issue for Sam Mitchell and how he manages a midfield that looks very same with the personnel they’ve got.”

So which is it Kane? Are they valued accomplished midfielders or worthless plodders?

A 27-year old free agent is somehow this broken-down old hack but Jack Gunston at 31 is our best forward option?

He also said there was no way we would win 6 games this year.

Classic work from the fireman

 

[RIOLINWITPUNCHS]

You can only match bids with the number of spots available(you can't just stock up on ten pick 40's eg), once a bid comes you're locked from trading your first pick.

So it's very unlikely we are going to be able to package those picks we have for an earlier pick.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

From the reporting which I assume is correct, O'Meara wasn't on the trade table until GWS came knocking on the door. Fremantle, knowing we were after their ruck, came in with an offer. With McEvoy and Shiels retiring we have now lost our 5 most senior players. What was received in exchange for Mitchell and O'Meara would not have been something players were expecting. IMO there is not a clear path for where the club is heading, and I believe there will be senior players concerned about this. Not to mention potential recruits down the track. The club has a lot of work to do.

Yup like all the senior players who went heading for the lifeboats after the Collingwood 'fire sale' of 2020. And the trouble they had luring Daicos as a result. Oh wait. I think players understand the realities of list management better than any of us do to be honest.

Our senior players you are so worried about losing are Sicily, Amon, Wingard and Breust. Sicily has a 5 year deal, Amon has a 4 year deal, Wingard has shown a complete lack of desire to go elsewhere and Breust is a Hawk for life. What exodus are you fearing here exactly?

Also the price for O'Meara is better than I ever expected and the price for Mitchell was somewhat disappointing but not overly shocking given there was **** all demand for his services.

You can't rebuild with half measures. You can't build a competitive midfield around Jaeger and Tom in this day and age. The club bit the bullet.

 

[BobHawk]

So this 3 way trade involving Geelong, Collingwood and Hawthorn just goes to show how well Geelong are working in this area, and how deficient Hawthorn is?

Yes. Both Geelong and Collingwood had very good outcomes. They got what they wanted. We did not. Geelong, like Fremantle and O'Meara, worked out a plan based on what Hawthorn was looking for and knowing that, was able to swing a deal that got Henry over to Kardinia Park which also accommodated Collingwood's desire to bring Mitchell to Collingwood. Very astute. I don't think we have that level of thinking at the club.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

KANE SAYS: It is impossible to understand what the Hawks set out to achieve here. They bring in a 27-year-old free agent on massive money, but lose their two most accomplished midfielders and their best forward. Hard to see how they win more than six games and the damage of the repeated beatings on the young group will be scarring. Imagine how James Sicily, who is 27 and just signed a five-year contract, is feeling this morning knowing he has not a chance to win a premiership at Hawthorn. What a fall for such a great club.

IN:
Lloyd Meek
Cooper Stephens
Karl Amon
Pick 41, 48, 50
Future 2nd (FRE), Future 4th (BRI)

OUT:
Jaeger O’Meara
Tom Mitchell
Jack Gunston


Oh how much I love Kane! No chance of a flag in the next 6 years!

It's hardly a bold statement. Find me anyone who thinks we will be challenging for a flag within 6 years and I'll show you a Hawthorn supporter. No one else would be buying our stock ATM, bar us.

If all goes well with development I think we will be pushing top four in 2025.

 

[SSSSSS]

I do ignore him, thanks.

We'll have to agree to disagree that he provides anything of value.

Oh he absolutely provides zero value. That we can agree with.

Airheads the lot of them.

 

[SA HAWK]

Probably not a popular person on here to give his opinion but he is 100% right.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Probably not a popular person on here to give his opinion but he is 100% right.

Danger is a flog, but he's not a stupid one. He's absolutely right about this.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Probably not a popular person on here to give his opinion but he is 100% right.

Assuming tassie happens for 1. But secondly, despite their bnf finishes, they've struggled to impact games. They've definitely done what the team wants from them though

 

[eldorado]

Yes. Both Geelong and Collingwood had very good outcomes. They got what they wanted. We did not. Geelong, like Fremantle and O'Meara, worked out a plan based on what Hawthorn was looking for and knowing that, was able to swing a deal that got Henry over to Kardinia Park which also accommodated Collingwood's desire to bring Mitchell to Collingwood. Very astute. I don't think we have that level of thinking at the club.

Not true at all

You don't know what they wanted. Collingwood certainly wanted to keep Henry. Geelong, through 10 days of bargaining, obviously wanted to pay much less. Hawthorn ended up with a 21 year old first round midfielder, and two (lesser) picks (which may still be very useful on draft night.

Somehow, to you, this three-way plan was worked out due to the brilliance of two of the clubs, for the benefit of two clubs, without any input from Hawthorn, or benefit for them at all. Yet you don't comment that for two weeks previously, Geelong and Collingwood couldn't manage to do anything.

This is just pessimistic outlook, viewing every outcome through the worst possible lens.

Three clubs, three outcomes...they did it, so obviously they were all satisfied by the end. Our perception of 'winners' and 'losers' is just in our perceptions and biases.


Too many people are viewing everything through a 'this club is ****ed' lens...

 

[KermitJagger]

It's hardly a bold statement. Find me anyone who thinks we will be challenging for a flag within 6 years and I'll show you a Hawthorn supporter. No one else would be buying our stock ATM, bar us.

If all goes well with development I think we will be pushing top four in 2025.

Show me anyone who thinks they know what'll happen in 3 years time, let alone 6, and I'll show you someone talking out their backside.

 

[badgrill]

Yes. Both Geelong and Collingwood had very good outcomes. They got what they wanted. We did not. Geelong, like Fremantle and O'Meara, worked out a plan based on what Hawthorn was looking for and knowing that, was able to swing a deal that got Henry over to Kardinia Park which also accommodated Collingwood's desire to bring Mitchell to Collingwood. Very astute. I don't think we have that level of thinking at the club.

sounds like you were in the room with them and know precisely how it all went down? Like, Cats and Pies cooked up the entire deal and then brought MM into the room and told him what was going to happen?

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Show me anyone who thinks they know what'll happen in 3 years time, let alone 6, and I'll show you someone talking out their backside.

 

[BobHawk]

Not true at all

You don't know what they wanted. Collingwood certainly wanted to keep Henry. Geelong, through 10 days of bargaining, obviously wanted to pay much less. Hawthorn ended up with a 21 year old first round midfielder, and two (lesser) picks (which may still be very useful on draft night.

Somehow, to you, this three-way plan was worked out due to the brilliance of two of the clubs, for the benefit of two clubs, without any input from Hawthorn, or benefit for them at all. Yet you don't comment that for two weeks previously, Geelong and Collingwood couldn't manage to do anything.

This is just pessimistic outlook, viewing every outcome through the worst possible lens.

Three clubs, three outcomes...they did it, so obviously they were all satisfied by the end. Our perception of 'winners' and 'losers' is just in our perceptions and biases.


Too many people are viewing everything through a 'this club is cactus' lens...

Well, we all have our own opinions. The outcome suggests to me that the club was never leading any negotiations and was basically following what other clubs were doing and offering.

 

[TylerDurden]

Worth talking to Connor McKenna?

 

[BobHawk]

sounds like you were in the room with them and know precisely how it all went down? Like, Cats and Pies cooked up the entire deal and then brought MM into the room and told him what was going to happen?

The outcome suggests so. It looks reactionary to me and the club took what it could in the end.

 

[flinchfree]

That logic only works if what we got was actually decent. For example, if a club overlooks a first rounder that is offered because they want two first rounders, the opportunity cost is the first rounder. Here, the opportunity cost of holding our ground was picks 41 and 50 in a shallow draft - ie. junk.

We would have negotiated a separate deal for Stephens. If by not bending over we didn't get picks 41 and 50 in a shallow draft and end up with a worse deal next year, who cares? We get dudded either way but by taking the rubbish deal, McKenzie reinforces a reputation as a pushover. You know those reputations exist, as you were ridiculing Wright about it a few days ago when suggesting only Wright himself would accept such a dud offer. In any event, I reckon Collingwood would have yielded and offered up fair value, but instead McKenzie did and took a bad deal

What deal were Geelong telling you they'd take for Stephens, just by his lonesome.
Interested because that's valuable information.

 

[Brodes]

I think the backlash towards McKenzie and Mitchell is harsh. Let’s not forget the list management and trading from Wright and Clarkson post premierships. They essentially traded out of 3 drafts. This left us with huge holes in our list that we are now paying for and have no other option than to bottom out to get back to the top.

 

[TylerDurden]