Analysis Hawks 2022 Hypothetical trades (read the pinned post)

[Strapping Young Lad]

Firstly, the "No Kane Cornes

Kane Cornes

Age

42

Ht

183cm

Wt

78kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.5

5star

K

12.5

5star

HB

11.0

5star

M

5.2

5star

T

3.3

5star

CL

2.6

4star

No current season stats available

D

13.0

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.2

3star

" Rule is back

 

[Brishawk]

I just don't think he can be simply dismissed. Maybe his language is a bit strong (intentional) but it is what at least some people are thinking, and we really didn't come out of the trade in a better position. We haven't got a fistful of picks to use. We basically have the same picks we went into the trade period with plus small change. I am sure that players at the club would not have expected this outcome moving forward.

Like all good propaganda, it has some basis in truth and some basis in fear. Mostly he is pointing out risks that have increased and using them to stoke fears. It’s not debatable that we had only a marginal improvement to our draft hand but what does this mean for our future? Probably not too much in the long run. We will continue to adapt. New players and leaders will emerge. If the players we landed both become best 22 and we can leverage the future second for high quality talent then things could look very positive. It all depends on how you look at things and as it is all uncertain, there is not much to be gained by speculating about how Sicily and amon are feeling. For all we know they knew this was the direction before signing.

 

[Yardie]

IMO there is not a clear path for where the club is heading

Feel free to say that to Sam at the next Coach Q&A.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

I think the backlash towards McKenzie and Mitchell is harsh. Let’s not forget the list management and trading from Wright and Clarkson post premierships. They essentially traded out of 3 drafts. This left us with huge holes in our list that we are now paying for and have no other option than to bottom out to get back to the top.

There is a lot of subconscious comparing to the 04/5/6 trade periods where we were getting overs omfor players
The industry values draft picks now though

 

[flinchfree]

I know people love to hate on Kane Cornes but I don't think he is far off the mark here. Right now, the club looks to be all over the shop. There must be a few senior players scratching their heads and I imagine that Sam Mitchell has some serious talking to do with regards to the plan and how he intends to get there. Right now, the getting there seems to be a very complex and difficult task for the club. It could flounder for many years. There are also the cascading effects of attracting players, membership, sponsorship and game attendance. If we look at the trend over the past 5 years or so we can see that the successful clubs such as, Geelong and Richmond get what they need and do it quite seamlessly. The three-way trade that delivered Tom Mitchell to Collingwood (plus pick 25) and Henry to Geelong is a classic case of that.

Yeh, I think that's your narrative. Nothing like what the players would be thinking.

 

[Alite]

Hold up.

Pick 14 for a Brownlow medallist, two time AA and three time Crimmins medallist is as good as just about any trade you can do.

You would be more correctly referencing the trades for Wingard and O'Meara.

Hold up.

are you saying the Brownlow medallist, many time time AA and all around awesome commentator Robert Dippiernamenico (who the f@ck can spell that) is back playing . Is he a free agent? Dippa seems a free spirit … does that count?

Please! Do you not see the Superannuation ads? “Past performance is no a reliable…. Bla bla.”

I loved it when Brad Pitt (portraying Billy Bean in Moneyball) emphasised to a good but fading player that another team was paying for him to play against them… which will happen with Titch and the Hawks… It showed how much he is actually worth for the now and not the then.

Clearly contracts are more complex than in that scene in the movie but… Titch is no longer worth what he was.

While he is still a good player… he no longer fit with the Hawks future. So any trade was a good trade!

 

[theiaofseed]

It's hardly a bold statement. Find me anyone who thinks we will be challenging for a flag within 6 years and I'll show you a Hawthorn supporter. No one else would be buying our stock ATM, bar us.

If all goes well with development I think we will be pushing top four in 2025.

Do you know how long 6 years? Brisbane won the spoon in 2017 and have finished top 5 4 times since then. 6 years time Will Day will be the same age as Sicily is now, 6 years is a seriously long time ofc we can challenge in 6 years.

 

[SA HAWK]

I think the backlash towards McKenzie and Mitchell is harsh. Let’s not forget the list management and trading from Wright and Clarkson post premierships. They essentially traded out of 3 drafts. This left us with huge holes in our list that we are now paying for and have no other option than to bottom out to get back to the top.

Our current situation is 100% their doing.

 

[Billyc]

Probably not a popular person on here to give his opinion but he is 100% right.

He is right, but don't confuse strategy and execution. I think most people agree with the strategy of rebuilding - it's the execution that has been disappointing. A bunch of third round picks in a shallow draft isn't likely to make a big difference in our rebuild. That's the issue from the last couple years: teams that aren't rebuilding are doing a better job at improving their draft hand. We just have to hope to nail those speculative late picks we stockpiled.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

He is right, but don't confuse strategy and execution. I think most people agree with the strategy of rebuilding - it's the execution that has been disappointing. A bunch of third round picks in a shallow draft isn't likely to make a big difference in our rebuild. That's the issue from the last couple years: teams that aren't rebuilding are doing a better job at improving their draft hand.

Helps when you have quality assets that other teams actually want though.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Do you know how long 6 years? Brisbane won the spoon in 2017 and have finished top 5 4 times since then. 6 years time Will Day will be the same age as Sicily is now, 6 years is a seriously long time ofc we can challenge in 6 years.

I'm not agreeing with Kane, that's obvious and evidenced by what I wrote in the post you have quoted.

 

[CobberRodgers]

He is right, but don't confuse strategy and execution. I think most people agree with the strategy of rebuilding - it's the execution that has been disappointing. A bunch of third round picks in a shallow draft isn't likely to make a big difference in our rebuild. That's the issue from the last couple years: teams that aren't rebuilding are doing a better job at improving their draft hand. We just have to hope to nail those speculative late picks we stockpiled.

Next years extra second is going to be pivotal. Let’s not forget that.

We don’t have the players other clubs want that we are happy to let go. We don’t have extremely high picks of our own. Hands were a bit tied.

 

[VandoHawk]

So if Geelong want Clark would we consider trading Pick 6 + Future Second (via Bulldogs) for Pick 7 and their future first?

 

[SA HAWK]

Do you know how long 6 years? Brisbane won the spoon in 2017 and have finished top 5 4 times since then. 6 years time Will Day will be the same age as Sicily is now, 6 years is a seriously long time ofc we can challenge in 6 years.

Brisbane had 5 bottom 4 finishes in a row so were accumulating top end talent for years.

 

[hawkmang]

So if Geelong want Clark would we consider trading Pick 6 + Future Second (via Bulldogs) for Pick 7 and their future first?

100% we would do that but they wouldn’t

 

[TDS7]

So if Geelong want Clark would we consider trading Pick 6 + Future Second (via Bulldogs) for Pick 7 and their future first?

They aren't allowed, they don't have a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th so they can't trade their first.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Brisbane had 5 bottom 4 finishes in a row so were accumulating top end talent for years.

Not every time - they lost a lot of their top end draft picks with a go home factor.

 

[matey]

All the morons in the media criticising us now ……..and then next year when Collingwood are a kick down with a couple of minutes left Tom turns it over in the middle of the ground trying a simple kick to a team mate and then the media will say yeah that was a problem he had at the Hawks. Cornes and the media have no accountability what an easy job they have!

 

[Jazzfan]

I don't have any Hawks intel, but I occasionally get some stuff regarding Essendon.

My mate said that Bombers aren't all that keen on Tsastas and will look to trade back if Wardlaw and Sheezel are gone as expected.

They're apparently more interested in Mackenzie, Phillipou or Humphrey.

Davo-27 do you have Tsastas still clearly ahead of this group?

 

[theiaofseed]

Brisbane had 5 bottom 4 finishes in a row so were accumulating top end talent for years.

We've had 3 and 2023 will make 4. No reason we can't be competing by 2025.

 

[Jazzfan]

Helps when you have quality assets that other teams actually want though.

Giants offered a first for O'Meara.

We tried to leverage our cap space (asset) into pick 7. We missed.

So there's those examples.

 

[SA HAWK]

Not every time - they lost a lot of their top end draft picks with a go home factor.

Most of the ones they lost (Yeo, Docherty etc…) were from earlier drafts.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Hold up.

are you saying the Brownlow medallist, many time time AA and all around awesome commentator Robert Dippiernamenico (who the f@ck can spell that) is back playing . Is he a free agent? Dippa seems a free spirit … does that count?

Please! Do you not see the Superannuation ads? “Past performance is no a reliable…. Bla bla.”

I loved it when Brad Pitt (portraying Billy Bean in Moneyball) emphasised to a good but fading player that another team was paying for him to play against them… which will happen with Titch and the Hawks… It showed how much he is actually worth for the now and not the then.

Clearly contracts are more complex than in that scene in the movie but… Titch is no longer worth what he was.

While he is still a good player… he no longer fit with the Hawks future. So any trade was a good trade!

Mate, that comment you are quoting was simply a rebuttal of a point I made that we got screwed on the Mitchell trade when we got him in. We didn't and got great value from Mitchell. I meant to say Wingard was a bad deal for us..

 

[SA HAWK]

We've had 3 and 2023 will make 4. No reason we can't be competing by 2025.

We have only had 1 bottom 4 finish in 2020.

Brisbane bottomed out we have not yet.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

We have only had 1 bottom 4 finish in 2020.

Brisbane bottomed out we have not yet.

Next season we will bottom out.

I'd be surprised if we won more than 4 games.

 

[nickrebellious]

It will be fun to deathride the Bulldogs next year. Reckon they are primed to implode.