Analysis Hawks 2022 Hypothetical trades (read the pinned post)

[Strapping Young Lad]

Firstly, the "No Kane Cornes

Kane Cornes

Age

41

Ht

183cm

Wt

78kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.5

5star

K

12.5

5star

HB

11.0

5star

M

5.2

5star

T

3.3

5star

CL

2.6

4star

No current season stats available

D

13.0

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.2

3star

" Rule is back

 

[Stranglers]

Hawks future is bright as young star arrives; coach would be ‘fuming’ as Port exposed: 3-2-1

Young Hawks shock AFL world with HUGE upset win as young star arrives: 3-2-1

www.foxsports.com.au

Yet back in May this year he said about JOM and Mitchell:

"They're essentially worthless. What would you get for Tom Mitchell? There wasn’t (a market) last year and there won’t be again this year,” he said.

“He touched the footy 14 times (against Essendon), their (the Bombers) speed was able to expose Hawthorn’s midfield late. (The Hawk were) plodding along. It was very much on display late in that game and they were overrun with the Bombers’ power.

“It’s a real issue for Sam Mitchell and how he manages a midfield that looks very same with the personnel they’ve got.”

So which is it Kane? Are they valued accomplished midfielders or worthless plodders?

A 27-year old free agent is somehow this broken-down old hack but Jack Gunston at 31 is our best forward option?

He also said there was no way we would win 6 games this year.

 

[Sirlemsip]

It's mostly Kane, Barrett, Lloyd

those three clowns will do everything in their power to diminish us

To be fair to Kane, he does it to every club and it's just part of his schtick. Don't care about him. The other two are just morons so again, don't really care

Yep, you just need to listen to Kane lay into Port when they've been bad to know that he does it to every team. He's just an angry little man who should be ignored.

Lloyd is the 'best' of the three, he actually has an understanding of the game, and its fair for an Essendon great to hate on the Hawks.

Barrett is absolutely useless.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Yet back in May this year he said about JOM and Mitchell:

"They're essentially worthless. What would you get for Tom Mitchell? There wasn’t (a market) last year and there won’t be again this year,” he said.

“He touched the footy 14 times (against Essendon), their (the Bombers) speed was able to expose Hawthorn’s midfield late. (The Hawk were) plodding along. It was very much on display late in that game and they were overrun with the Bombers’ power.

“It’s a real issue for Sam Mitchell and how he manages a midfield that looks very same with the personnel they’ve got.”

So which is it Kane? Are they valued accomplished midfielders or worthless plodders?

A 27-year old free agent is somehow this broken-down old hack but Jack Gunston at 31 is our best forward option?

He also said there was no way we would win 6 games this year.

Glorious highlighting of the (intentional?) hypocrisy.

If you had told me before the trade period that Kane would have a negative, critical assessment of what we do I wouldn't be slightly surprised. He's job is to be a negative shit. It's all he's got in terms of commentary contribution.

There is not a single possible scenario when Kane would have said "you know what - the hawks have done really well here. Great moves for where they are as a club and they really could not have had a more perfect trade period"

 

[HawksILove]

Would we be looking at and maybe picking up Edward Allan in the Draft he has elite speed, 194-centimetre utility

 

[BobHawk]

KANE SAYS: It is impossible to understand what the Hawks set out to achieve here. They bring in a 27-year-old free agent on massive money, but lose their two most accomplished midfielders and their best forward. Hard to see how they win more than six games and the damage of the repeated beatings on the young group will be scarring. Imagine how James Sicily, who is 27 and just signed a five-year contract, is feeling this morning knowing he has not a chance to win a premiership at Hawthorn. What a fall for such a great club.

IN:
Lloyd Meek
Cooper Stephens
Karl Amon
Pick 41, 48, 50
Future 2nd (FRE), Future 4th (BRI)

OUT:
Jaeger O’Meara
Tom Mitchell
Jack Gunston


Oh how much I love Kane! No chance of a flag in the next 6 years!

I know people love to hate on Kane Cornes but I don't think he is far off the mark here. Right now, the club looks to be all over the shop. There must be a few senior players scratching their heads and I imagine that Sam Mitchell has some serious talking to do with regards to the plan and how he intends to get there. Right now, the getting there seems to be a very complex and difficult task for the club. It could flounder for many years. There are also the cascading effects of attracting players, membership, sponsorship and game attendance. If we look at the trend over the past 5 years or so we can see that the successful clubs such as, Geelong and Richmond get what they need and do it quite seamlessly. The three-way trade that delivered Tom Mitchell to Collingwood (plus pick 25) and Henry to Geelong is a classic case of that.

 

[ralphwiggum]

Melbourne lost one of the best young talls in the comp and picked up Shache and a off-field problem in Hunter, but got an A-!

Who writes this s**t.

Shipping off Weideman is a big big tick though

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Yet back in May this year he said about JOM and Mitchell:

"They're essentially worthless. What would you get for Tom Mitchell? There wasn’t (a market) last year and there won’t be again this year,” he said.

“He touched the footy 14 times (against Essendon), their (the Bombers) speed was able to expose Hawthorn’s midfield late. (The Hawk were) plodding along. It was very much on display late in that game and they were overrun with the Bombers’ power.

“It’s a real issue for Sam Mitchell and how he manages a midfield that looks very same with the personnel they’ve got.”

So which is it Kane? Are they valued accomplished midfielders or worthless plodders?

A 27-year old free agent is somehow this broken-down old hack but Jack Gunston at 31 is our best forward option?

He also said there was no way we would win 6 games this year.

Kane just screams into the nearest microphone without thought but with plenty of bluster. How he has so many media gigs is beyond me. He has no analysis or insight - just '(insert team/player) GOOD!' or '(insert team/player) BAD!'.

 

[cryptor]

The media hate us more than any club.
For years they've belted on that we need to move on from these players. Then when we do, they say we're a rabble.

If you're not Hawthorn, get fkd.

Usually in these instances it's one group/person saying one thing and then another group/person saying the opposing thing later. In this case it's the same group/person.

Absolute peanuts.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I know people love to hate on Kane Cornes but I don't think he is far off the mark here. Right now, the club looks to be all over the shop. There must be a few senior players scratching their heads and I imagine that Sam Mitchell has some serious talking to do with regards to the plan and how he intends to get there. Right now, the getting there seems to be a very complex and difficult task for the club. It could flounder for many years. There are also the cascading effects of attracting players, membership, sponsorship and game attendance. If we look at the trend over the past 5 years or so we can see that the successful clubs such as, Geelong and Richmond get what they need and do it quite seamlessly. The three-way trade that delivered Tom Mitchell to Collingwood (plus pick 25) and Henry to Geelong is a classic case of that.

You mean teams that have been in finals contention for most of the past 5 years and have won 4 of the last 6 flags are better at attracting talent? Getouddahere!!!

 

[SSSSSS]

I don't mind Kane. He's good at what he does which is being a campaigner. On field and off it.

He knows exactly what he's doing and for that he has my respect.

 

[BobHawk]

You mean teams that have been in finals contention for most of the past 5 years and have won 4 of the last 6 flags are better at attracting talent? Getouddahere!!!

It is not as simple as you would like to think it is. Like any organisation the club needs a clear vision of where it is going and how it intends to get there. I don't think we have that right now. Maybe we can pull the trigger on our go to solution and sell the idea of having Jeff Kennett hang around for a few more years as president. That'll fix it.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

I don't mind Kane. He's good at what he does which is being a campaigner. On field and off it.

He knows exactly what he's doing and for that he has my respect.

**** that. He exists only to wind people up. Unless it onvolves port, he always takes the contrary view, its exhausting and negative. The only thing he provides is gratification for chippy supporters of all teams when he slags off other teams they hate.

I hate that there are people like this in the media and its getting worse. Its across social media too, you make more money and get more clicks by being nasty and selfish than you do by being kind.

I dont respect wasps because they are good at ruining my afternoon tea in the sun. I also dont respect Kane because he is good at being a prick

 

[Jazzfan]

I don't mind Kane. He's good at what he does which is being a campaigner. On field and off it.

He knows exactly what he's doing and for that he has my respect.

Getting so offended by him and calling/texting SEN or lambasting him on social media is exactly what he's after. You're only helping to build his brand as the Aussie version of Skip Bayless.

His role is to be controversial, topical and offensive to fans. There's a reason why he's so sort after in the media... ratings.

None do it better really.

 

[Brishawk]

I think it's fair to be disappointed at the return, but the misplaced blame is what gets to me. We pretty much got the second best deal possible from Freo when Jaeger decided to go there, which was Meek and their second best available pick. North's future 2nd is as good as a 1st rounder and was never going to happen.

We got low balled for Tom, but not due to a failure of negotiation - Tom netted us poor picks because Sam chucked him on the curb with a "for sale" sign around his neck. Every potential suitor for Tom knew he wasn't wanted at the club moving forward, given he attended just over 50% of our centre bounces which was down close to 20% from 2021 and about 40% from 2018.

McKenzie did what he could, given the circumstances.

I’m coming around on the omeara deal. I prefer the future second v pick 30 (being the only other option). If the dogs collapse we might snag a top 30 pick. My memory of meek was from our game last year, and he wasn’t impressive at all. But looks like he has improved substantially on that season so maybe he is better than the backup ruck.

My biggest issue is we have traded out our experienced leaders and don’t get the benefit of landing top picks in return. We have spoken publicly about improving the draft hand and we only managed to nudge it a bit next year. We haven’t landed the top ten pick and it seems like we had no real plan but salary cap dump to land one. And it’s clear we were well off the pace in trying to land a salary cap dump with gc. So we took an unambitious plan in and didn’t achieve our primary goal (at least yet).

As much as we all would have hated it, trading out an emerging star in CJ or DGB to gain an extra pick is a much braver move. I understand some people see this as a risk to the culture but we just gave away two former vice captains, one of whom has captained the club this year and could have been captain of the club had we gotten behind him as a leader. I understand Sam wants to move on from them as players but they are still light years ahead of every other mid except Newcombe. It’s not that they are denying players opportunities it’s that the players we have are not ready for the responsibility.

Was Jordan Lewis better or worse off playing behind sewell, Mitchell and hodge? Was Joel Selwood worse off for playing behind Bartel, Ablett and Kelly? I would have thought it was the making of them. Whoever we take in this draft is going to get opportunities regardless assuming they are good enough. But when they come they are going to have to carry a bigger load than is optimal. Fine for Newcombe, who was physically and mentally ready but most players aren’t like him. Can’t see, for example, butler flourishing in the seniors until he gets a lot fitter and builds his strength. I think even MacDonald will benefit from not having to spend significant time in the centre square.

Anyway, while we didn’t land the picks, we have landed a couple of players that could fit into our rebuild. More speculative than I would like but no going back now!

If Worpel and stephens can come into the side as part of our centre square mid rotations (Worpel really needs to set the standard in there) and meek can be a first/second ruck then things will look pretty good out of the trade. Sam is going to have to enlist some of the young players who are highly self motivated and have a strong desire to win, to set the standards and culture of the side. Big responsibility!

 

[Brodes]

I’ve heard a bit in the media and on big footy that Hawthorn have had a bad trade period but it’s clear our goal is to blow the list up and draft new talent in and start again.

History tells us that most players need 50+ games or more experience before they can consistently compete at AFL level, some of our future stars are around this mark but we need more talent and they’ll take a two or three seasons. I think we are realistically targeting 2026 and beyond to compete for top 4. That leaves T Mitchell and O’Meara not in our next premiership team. Our club is about winning flags not just winning games of football.

We traded our Mitchell but get a highly rated young player in Stephens that went first round (16) in 2019.

And the O’Meara trade has given us Meek who may develop into our number one ruckman for the next 10 years + a future second which will give us a pick from 19-36.

Having O’Meara and Mitchell off the list will provide more midfield opportunity to Newcombe, Moore, Ward, Maginness, Nash, McDonald plus whoever we get in the draft with pick 6.

Yes we will be in for some pain but it’s about winning a premiership.

Have we cut too deep? Well I actually don’t subscribe to the theory. I think if we have good coaches and development staff we should be fine.

 

[SSSSSS]

* that. He exists only to wind people up. Unless it onvolves port, he always takes the contrary view, its exhausting and negative. The only thing he provides is gratification for chippy supporters of all teams when he slags off other teams they hate.

I hate that there are people like this in the media and its getting worse. Its across social media too, you make more money and get more clicks by being nasty and selfish than you do by being kind.

I dont respect wasps because they are good at ruining my afternoon tea in the sun. I also dont respect Kane because he is good at being a prick

You can simply ignore him if it winds you up. Personally I find it a laugh and it gives us some good ammunition when it blows up in his face.

It's give and take. I'm sure when we are up and about again he will be one of the first to polish our balls. Loves kicking the shit teams because they're easy.

 

[KermitJagger]

I know people love to hate on Kane Cornes but I don't think he is far off the mark here. Right now, the club looks to be all over the shop. There must be a few senior players scratching their heads and I imagine that Sam Mitchell has some serious talking to do with regards to the plan and how he intends to get there. Right now, the getting there seems to be a very complex and difficult task for the club. It could flounder for many years. There are also the cascading effects of attracting players, membership, sponsorship and game attendance. If we look at the trend over the past 5 years or so we can see that the successful clubs such as, Geelong and Richmond get what they need and do it quite seamlessly. The three-way trade that delivered Tom Mitchell to Collingwood (plus pick 25) and Henry to Geelong is a classic case of that.

I think he's fairly off the mark on a few points.

"It is impossible to understand what the Hawks set out to achieve here." - Given the reduction in centre bounce attendances from both O'Meara and Mitchell I'd have thought it was plainly obvious what we set out to achieve.

"[Karl Amon] on massive money" - clearly not if you look at what was reported and Port Adelaide's compensation.

"Lose ... their best forward." - Gunston is no longer our best forward, and he's 31.

"Imagine how James Sicily, who is 27 and just signed a five-year contract, is feeling this morning knowing he has not a chance to win a premiership at Hawthorn." - Kane wouldn't have rated us a chance to win a premiership even with Gunston, O'Meara and Mitchell so this is insincere at best. Sicily might not win a flag, but he'd also be aware that flags are pretty bloody rare - plenty of fantastic careers have come to a close without nabbing one, it's just the reality of playing in an 18 team competition with 1 winner each year.

You're also assuming that the players aren't already in the loop with what Sam is trying to do. Sam is many things but I don't think you could say he's been guarded in any way on what he wants to do, or how he wants to get there. I'd reckon the players are completely aware of what's going on.

 

[smeltitdeltit]

Neither Cornes in his trade period assement nor Derwayne in his flag prospect assessments for Collingwood even mentioned their addition of T Mitchel. Says a lot really.

 

[eldorado]

If we look at the trend over the past 5 years or so we can see that the successful clubs such as, Geelong and Richmond get what they need and do it quite seamlessly. The three-way trade that delivered Tom Mitchell to Collingwood (plus pick 25) and Henry to Geelong is a classic case of that.

So this 3 way trade involving Geelong, Collingwood and Hawthorn just goes to show how well Geelong are working in this area, and how deficient Hawthorn is?

 

[A1fromDay1]

The biggest positive we can take away from trade week is we no longer have to watch Tom Mitchell play football.

Running to the halfback flank for a cheap sideways short mark, kicks going higher then longer.

I will miss those days.

 

[CHUBBSS]

The general consensus in the media, at work & in the broader community is that we got reamed (again). You can't sugar coat it. I'm yet to speak to anyone this morning who hasn't hung s**t on me, so that's a fair indicator. Perhaps my silence on the topic is another indicator too. Sam Mitchell wanted this, but our inability to trade for top end talent (not free agents) is a concern & our draft haul is underwhelming for where we're at. Once again I'm looking for something to hang my HFC hat on. Over to you Sammy.

Jesus Christ Those same people tipped against us in flags and think the bombers are making finals every pre season. Might be worth taking a breath and remembering we have a draft to come.

As a side, I love how omeara and Mitchell have been pretty poor for us and we’re on the way out but now they are superstars that we sold for bottom dollar.

It’s like merry go round of contradictions.

 

[Brishawk]

I know people love to hate on Kane Cornes but I don't think he is far off the mark here. Right now, the club looks to be all over the shop. There must be a few senior players scratching their heads and I imagine that Sam Mitchell has some serious talking to do with regards to the plan and how he intends to get there. Right now, the getting there seems to be a very complex and difficult task for the club. It could flounder for many years. There are also the cascading effects of attracting players, membership, sponsorship and game attendance. If we look at the trend over the past 5 years or so we can see that the successful clubs such as, Geelong and Richmond get what they need and do it quite seamlessly. The three-way trade that delivered Tom Mitchell to Collingwood (plus pick 25) and Henry to Geelong is a classic case of that.

As someone who is sceptical about our offseason moves, I still wouldn’t buy into a Kane Cornes narrative of despair and chaos

 

[SA HAWK]

The other team that will have a bad year is the Crows. Their list is still absolute balls.
Probably the next worst midfield after us.

Crows forward line looks light years ahead of ours.

I actually think they will improve a bit next year.

 

[Yardie]

I wouldn't have done the Mitchell trade if that was the best offer. We really got no meaningful value for that trade and when you compare it to all of the other trades for players that went through this year, it stands out as a bad one. I expect Collingwood would have coughed up 27, as most clubs do when they are the one chasing players (especially Wright). Worst case pay Mitchell to play for us next year, instead of Collingwood. At least put an end to the perception of being pushovers and yielding to dud deals year after year.

The O'Meara trade is fine and I agree with it. That said, if there was any scope to convince him to go to Giants for superior deal (and there were some reports that was possible), I'd have pressed hard for that.

If Sam and Mark assess Stephens as being equivalent to Pick 27 does that make the trade ok?

 

[The Jet From Poowong]

We got rid of the list cloggers within in our midfield set up. It had to be said.

I don't know how many times I screamed at my TV this year about getting rid of TOM and or JOM (less so). Yes they were played out of position but they hurt the team's balance. Let's face it, these guys were a big issue for Sam moving forward and simply had to make way, no ifs or buts. Could we have got more for them in return in, maybe, but it wasn't as if we had clubs banging the door down for them.

It's gives us clear air now and setting up the midfield how Sam wants it to be set up. And not having to play TOM or JOM on a flank where they are not suited. Good luck to them both at their new clubs and I wish them well but it was time to cut the cord.

Happy with Meek as he is the type of ruck we haven't had for a while so that's a tick. Stephens, we have to wait and see but he looks promising if nothing else.

Onwards and upwards.