Analysis Hawks 2022 Hypothetical trades (read the pinned post)

[Strapping Young Lad]

Firstly, the "No Kane Cornes

Kane Cornes

Age

42

Ht

183cm

Wt

78kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.5

5star

K

12.5

5star

HB

11.0

5star

M

5.2

5star

T

3.3

5star

CL

2.6

4star

No current season stats available

D

13.0

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.2

3star

" Rule is back

 

[MasterSamurai]

Would love for Jack to stay. Can't just stack the Frwd line with youngsters , you need A graders with experience and with breust Lewis , Chad , butler , Moore, all injury free, we have one of the most dangerous Frwd lines in the Comp.

As for Sicily been traded? I'd rather have him play Frwd then trade him.

 

[Topiary]

Our strategy as outlined by McCartney on Fox footy at the closing of last years draft period is “to take 10-12 picks inside 30 over the next 2-3 drafts”.

We took three last year, and we will be trying to take at least that many again this year.

That is the strategy…..the last I heard.

 

[H00t]

The mid-season draft has been a roaring success. Trading between AFL listed clubs at this point would result in players like Newcombe, Blanck, Pickett, Snelling etc potentially missing out on an AFL career.

These guys would still get picked up. Clubs will still take picks at the preseason draft.

And there’s always the national draft.

What it would do is open up unique options during the year.

Melbourne for instance would pay as a hefty price for a Gunston or Kosi given their forward line woes.

 

[Blackhawk42]

These guys would still get picked up. Clubs will still take picks at the preseason draft.

And there’s always the national draft.

What it would do is open up unique options during the year.

Melbourne for instance would pay as a hefty price for a Gunston or Kosi given their forward line woes.

You wouldn't see something wrong with Jack Gunston sprinting out of the blocks for us early in the season then switching clubs and winning a premiership with a group of blokes he's known for 12 weeks?

The best thing about AFL is the war of attrition nature of the sport. You EARN those premierships through smart list management, game plan implementation, better strength and conditioning practices and luck with injuries.
Plugging holes with opposition players to win a flag has a very illegitimate feel to me.

 

[killerspud]

You wouldn't see something wrong with Jack Gunston sprinting out of the blocks for us early in the season then switching clubs and winning a premiership with a group of blokes he's known for 12 weeks?

The best thing about AFL is the war of attrition nature of the sport. You EARN those premierships through smart list management, game plan implementation, better strength and conditioning practices and luck with injuries.
Plugging holes with opposition players to win a flag has a very illegitimate feel to me.

If you were an Elite key defender or forward you could be a mercenary and have 7-8 flags with 4 or 5 clubs by the end of your career. That's a bit shit

 

[mknaven]

Not sure what anyone thinks the likelihood of Brockman extending are?
We need small fwds so i hope he stays, but if he wants to go, rather than dealing with the eagles, perhaps we could talk to Freo instead and look to get Sturt across. Switkowski is 30, Walters is near the end and i think Liam Henry is being trialled further up the ground, so there could defs be a spot for him there.
Not sure if we could orchestrate a direct swap given Sturt was an early pick, but shouldn't cost us too much in draft capital if Sturt is happy to come across. He's not exactly a pressure fwd but i think he'd add to our fwd line.

 

[Jazzfan]

You wouldn't see something wrong with Jack Gunston sprinting out of the blocks for us early in the season then switching clubs and winning a premiership with a group of blokes he's known for 12 weeks?

The best thing about AFL is the war of attrition nature of the sport. You EARN those premierships through smart list management, game plan implementation, better strength and conditioning practices and luck with injuries.
Plugging holes with opposition players to win a flag has a very illegitimate feel to me.

Not in this hypothetical instance if Dees gave us there first pick, and Jack wanted to leave advising the club he would move on at the end of year anyway as a Free Agent (lucky if we get anything).

 

[Blackhawk42]

Not in this hypothetical instance if Dees gave us there first pick, and Jack wanted to leave advising the club he would move on at the end of year anyway as a Free Agent (lucky if we get anything).

That's slightly different of course. Playing out the season at your original club is better, but it would still be odd.

 

[GinniAndTonic]

Not sure what anyone thinks the likelihood of Brockman extending are?
We need small fwds so i hope he stays, but if he wants to go, rather than dealing with the eagles, perhaps we could talk to Freo instead and look to get Sturt across. Switkowski is 30, Walters is near the end and i think Liam Henry is being trialled further up the ground, so there could defs be a spot for him there.
Not sure if we could orchestrate a direct swap given Sturt was an early pick, but shouldn't cost us too much in draft capital if Sturt is happy to come across. He's not exactly a pressure fwd but i think he'd add to our fwd line.

Switkowski is 25?

 

[FB19]

That is the strategy…..the last I heard.

Does anyone have an idea how that gets achieved? All well and good to say but given we start with 6 picks inside 30 in the window 2022-24 (assuming we don’t finish top 5 in any of those years) seems like a stretch. That’s why we don’t see quick rebuilds if you look at the extremes of the draft, the only difference at the ND between north and Melbourne last year is pick 1. for the rest of the draft they essentially have the same pick 18/19 36/37 etc. this is why other methods have increased in their importance especially the mid season draft through the covid affected years.

 

[Tomohawks]

You wouldn't see something wrong with Jack Gunston sprinting out of the blocks for us early in the season then switching clubs and winning a premiership with a group of blokes he's known for 12 weeks?

The best thing about AFL is the war of attrition nature of the sport. You EARN those premierships through smart list management, game plan implementation, better strength and conditioning practices and luck with injuries.
Plugging holes with opposition players to win a flag has a very illegitimate feel to me.

I agree with you up to the last point. Big Boy and Gibbo are the perfect examples of why you plug holes and were instrumental in our successes. Smart list management at the fore.

 

[Blackhawk42]

I agree with you up to the last point. Big Boy and Gibbo are the perfect examples of why you plug holes and were instrumental in our successes. Smart list management at the fore.

Absolutely! But acquiring them half way through the season wasn't the way we did it.

 

[FB19]

I know the vitriol might come at you in the next few pages. If so, I don't think that's fair. It's a hypothetical thread.

The answer to your question is 'no' they wouldn't consider it.

It’s the right sort of thinking but the wrong player and people then get distracted from your main point and focus on the detail. You almost always have to give to get in this era of professional recruiting and we seem overstocked in defence and the same type of midfielder, so it makes sense to look at rebalancing the list positionally speaking. A lot of caveats then on what teams need what they can offer etc. to totally shoot myself in the foot and distract from the point I would have chosen bramble to trade…

 

[Dewnior]

Hayden McLean from Sydney. I wanted us to go after him last year until I saw we were into Lynch.

He's a short ruck same height as Nash.

 

[mknaven]

Switkowski is 25?

Ooops.... seems my memory isn't what it used to be and i should do a fact check before posting. But if that's the only feedback, it seems the idea itself doesn't have much merit

 

[Dewnior]

I asked whether we will break even if we trade T.Mitchell.

We gave up pick 14, without having to assist with salary, what is a realistic return?

We gave up pick 1 for Luke Hodge, did we break even when we traded him to the Lions?

 

[Blackhawk42]

He's a short ruck same height as Nash.

Plays as a genuine ruck/fwd though. Many in here want us to address that role before any other.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Does anyone have an idea how that gets achieved? All well and good to say but given we start with 6 picks inside 30 in the window 2022-24 (assuming we don’t finish top 5 in any of those years) seems like a stretch. That’s why we don’t see quick rebuilds if you look at the extremes of the draft, the only difference at the ND between north and Melbourne last year is pick 1. for the rest of the draft they essentially have the same pick 18/19 36/37 etc. this is why other methods have increased in their importance especially the mid season draft through the covid affected years.

Going to be very difficult to see us getting 3 top 30 picks this season and next.

 

[KermitJagger]

Going to be very difficult to see us getting 3 top 30 picks this season and next.

Last year alone 3 clubs had 3 or more picks in the top 30, the year before that 5 teams did.

Plenty of ways to do it, take salary dumps, split picks, trade with teams who have good academy or FS prospects. Adelaide have Keeler, Brisbane have Ashcroft and Fletcher, Saints have McKenzie. It's one additional pick a year - how's that difficult?

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Last year alone 3 clubs had 3 or more picks in the top 30, the year before that 5 teams did.

Plenty of ways to do it, take salary dumps, split picks, trade with teams who have good academy or FS prospects. Adelaide have Keeler, Brisbane have Ashcroft and Fletcher, Saints have McKenzie. It's one additional pick a year - how's that difficult?

Yeah splitting picks isn't an idea I'm behind, usually a lot of star talent comes in the top 6 or 7, giving up those sorts of picks for 2 picks between 15-30 is not something I want to do.

 

[KermitJagger]

Yeah splitting picks isn't an idea I'm behind, usually a lot of star talent comes in the top 6 or 7, giving up those sorts of picks for 2 picks between 15-30 is not something I want to do.

Okay so even if we don't split picks, still leaves us with player trading, draft night trading, salary dumps, trading with clubs who need points.

Last year port dealt #12 to west coast for a 2 pick downgrade and a 2022 second rounder. Those are the kinds of things that can get done if you go into trade period and draft night with your eyes open. Still don't understand how that's difficult.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Okay so even if we don't split picks, still leaves us with player trading, draft night trading, salary dumps, trading with clubs who need points.

Last year port dealt #12 to west coast for a 2 pick downgrade and a 2022 second rounder. Those are the kinds of things that can get done if you go into trade period and draft night with your eyes open.

Salary dumps are something we should be all over, given the likely situation of our cap.

 

[FB19]

Okay so even if we don't split picks, still leaves us with player trading, draft night trading, salary dumps, trading with clubs who need points.

Last year port dealt #12 to west coast for a 2 pick downgrade and a 2022 second rounder. Those are the kinds of things that can get done if you go into trade period and draft night with your eyes open. Still don't understand how that's difficult.

Okay so even if we don't split picks, still leaves us with player trading, draft night trading, salary dumps, trading with clubs who need points.

Last year port dealt #12 to west coast for a 2 pick downgrade and a 2022 second rounder. Those are the kinds of things that can get done if you go into trade period and draft night with your eyes open. Still don't understand how that's difficult.

Sorry I understand list management theory it was a question asking specifically what do people think we will actually do to achieve it? Personally I don’t see as having players ti trade out to get high picks, I also don’t want to split picks and we don’t have extra picks or high value picks like the port eagles examples (other than our single digit first which must be protected) so would seem salary dump seems most likely. Candidates?

 

[KermitJagger]

Sorry I understand list management theory it was a question asking specifically what do people think we will actually do to achieve it? Personally I don’t see as having players ti trade out to get high picks, I also don’t want to split picks and we don’t have extra picks or high value picks like the port eagles examples (other than our single digit first which must be protected) so would seem salary dump seems most likely. Candidates?

Why must our early pick be protected to the point of being a non-negotiable? If we get to our pick, likely 7 after Ashcroft, and we've got 3 or 4 players we feel are about par in terms of what they'd offer to us - what's the issue with the Gold Coast coming to us and saying "we really want this kid so we'll give you Pick 9, 26 and maybe a little something extra for Pick 7". Why wouldn't we take that?

Why wouldn't we, for example, trade Tom Mitchell. He would get an early-ish pick from the right team. Richmond might want to go again, they might offer Pick 19 for Tom and worst case we might have to throw them 49 back.

Throw in a swap of a future second with a current second, say in a cap dump with GWS - Treloar/Coniglio and Pick 21 for a future second. In that case you've replaced Tom with a comparable, probably more versatile player and scored another early second in return for a future second likely to be later than 21.

Just those three moves would have us with Pick 8 (9 after FS), Pick 19~, Pick 21~, Pick 24~ and Pick 26~.

You're spouting a lot of stuff that you personally wouldn't want to do with NFI what the club would want to do or what they'd be thinking in regards to the picks and players we have, and the deals that could be done to get us those extra picks we want.

 

[FB19]

It’s dif

Why must our early pick be protected to the point of being a non-negotiable? If we get to our pick, likely 7 after Ashcroft, and we've got 3 or 4 players we feel are about par in terms of what they'd offer to us - what's the issue with the Gold Coast coming to us and saying "we really want this kid so we'll give you Pick 9, 26 and maybe a little something extra for Pick 7". Why wouldn't we take that?

Why wouldn't we, for example, trade Tom Mitchell. He would get an early-ish pick from the right team. Richmond might want to go again, they might offer Pick 19 for Tom and worst case we might have to throw them 49 back.

Throw in a swap of a future second with a current second, say in a cap dump with GWS - Treloar/Coniglio and Pick 21 for a future second. In that case you've replaced Tom with a comparable, probably more versatile player and scored another early second in return for a future second likely to be later than 21.

Just those three moves would have us with Pick 8 (9 after FS), Pick 19~, Pick 21~, Pick 24~ and Pick 26~.

You're spouting a lot of stuff that you personally wouldn't want to do with NFI what the club would want to do or what they'd be thinking in regards to the picks and players we have, and the deals that could be done to get us those extra picks we want.

It’s difficult to get your point across without creating war and peace length posts. of course there is nuance my views are directional not absolute. Yes pick 7 out for 9 and 26 would be a good idea depending on what our draft ranking board looked like so of course open to that. Mitchell would be a salary dump to get an early pick he’s 29 and not very impactful. My other points is we only have the standard draft picks so hard to see us doing anything significant to improve our early hand this year without compromising next year. I think your scenarios are highly optimistic but as a fellow hawks fan I’m hoping your right! Also that’s the point of the thread and the forum so thanks for your ideas. Spout closed!