Hawthorn’s 2019 Trade/FA - Targets/Incoming players discussion only

[tige19]

I wouldn’t worry about omeara.

As elite players are surrounded by elite players everyone’s de will rise. Elite players are better at positioning themselves to receive the ball and better at creating time for themselves and better at using the ball under pressure and putting team mates in a better position than themselves. Shiels can win a contest and give it off but he isn’t as clean picking it up, nor does he have as good vision or skills as Tom Mitchell. So if you have Tom Mitchell getting 12-15 contested possessions a game and omeara sitting outside him getting a better quality ball out than he gets from shiels (or Worpel or Howe etc) then you are going to see him burst into space more and bang it on the boot less. Or at least get a cleaner ball off to a team mate by hand.

I think omeara will move to the hff next season if we get all of cogs, Whitfield and Finn. Having wingard and omeara go up against second string midfielders of the opposition will be when we pile on the pain. They need to be partnered by a big bodied brute that can clear space. In the short term maybe Howe but hopefully Finn can play that role. Just like we did with Rioli (wingard), Burgoyne (omeara), and roughy (Howe/Finn).

This is not a bad post but I still think Jags starts on the pill, although splitting he and Worps is going to be tough. Finn is a big smokey here, from all reports his development has far exceeded what anyone could predict, in fact, his development coincides with his move to an inside mid. Finn will be good from day 1 physically, I hope we don't hold him back if he shows he can compete and add to our side.

 

[Sixpence]

Think about it this way.... do you think we engage two players at the same club knowing that we can only get one of them and that we’re going to disappoint one of them ?

I don’t.

If we’re talking to both, I can only assume we intend to land them both.

No doubt the club would intend on landing both, but it's still a tough ask. If they're engaging both, you would hope they would both be aware of this and the risk of one of them missing out. Not too concerned though, I trust in the clubs professionalism to manage expectations of both players.

Still, your optimism on getting both warms my cockles! Somewhere below the cockles, somewhere in the sub-cockle area.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

I wouldn’t worry about omeara.

As elite players are surrounded by elite players everyone’s de will rise. Elite players are better at positioning themselves to receive the ball and better at creating time for themselves and better at using the ball under pressure and putting team mates in a better position than themselves. Shiels can win a contest and give it off but he isn’t as clean picking it up, nor does he have as good vision or skills as Tom Mitchell. So if you have Tom Mitchell getting 12-15 contested possessions a game and omeara sitting outside him getting a better quality ball out than he gets from shiels (or Worpel or Howe etc) then you are going to see him burst into space more and bang it on the boot less. Or at least get a cleaner ball off to a team mate by hand.

I think omeara will move to the hff next season if we get all of cogs, Whitfield and Finn. Having wingard and omeara go up against second string midfielders of the opposition will be when we pile on the pain. They need to be partnered by a big bodied brute that can clear space. In the short term maybe Howe but hopefully Finn can play that role. Just like we did with Rioli (wingard), Burgoyne (omeara), and roughy (Howe/Finn).

Personally I think Cogs is more suited to the HFF role than Jags, but I see your point overall.

 

[Brishawk]

Personally I think Cogs is more suited to the HFF role than Jags, but I see your point overall.

I imagine all of omeara, wingard, and Worpel will rotate through hff. But I want omeara going up against tired or sending string mids to maximise the damage he can do with his burst out of stoppages. Let cogs and Mitch etc do the heavy lifting early.

 

[cryptor]

I wouldn’t worry about omeara.

As elite players are surrounded by elite players everyone’s de will rise. Elite players are better at positioning themselves to receive the ball and better at creating time for themselves and better at using the ball under pressure and putting team mates in a better position than themselves. Shiels can win a contest and give it off but he isn’t as clean picking it up, nor does he have as good vision or skills as Tom Mitchell. So if you have Tom Mitchell getting 12-15 contested possessions a game and omeara sitting outside him getting a better quality ball out than he gets from shiels (or Worpel or Howe etc) then you are going to see him burst into space more and bang it on the boot less. Or at least get a cleaner ball off to a team mate by hand.

I think omeara will move to the hff next season if we get all of cogs, Whitfield and Finn. Having wingard and omeara go up against second string midfielders of the opposition will be when we pile on the pain. They need to be partnered by a big bodied brute that can clear space. In the short term maybe Howe but hopefully Finn can play that role. Just like we did with Rioli (wingard), Burgoyne (omeara), and roughy (Howe/Finn).

Tom Mitchell has the quickest hands in close. Those extra few fractions of a second he gives to his teammates is huge in a game that is decided by moments that shift on the balance of fractions of a second.

 

[TylerDurden]

Hmmmm. Wonder why?

 

[tommyk72]

On O’Meara, I can see him becoming more Burgoyne-esque over time. work on his quality deliver off half back/forward and break glass in case of emergency.

On draftees, I would imagine that they won’t break into this team prior to 2021. Were building strongly, have a lot due to come back from injury, and are looking at a couple of handy additions. I reckon first 22 will be bloody tough to crack in 2020.

 

[SuperSic]

Hmmmm. Wonder why?

If this happens then I am certain that Cogs is out of GWS. There is no other reason why they would extend Taranto a year early. Add this to the Tom Mitchell extension and the mail coming from the media and it is done.

 

[TheExtractorFactor]

Not sure a about this year but in 2018 there were games when Cogs was deployed at full forward at times, and to good effect.

 

[TylerDurden]

If this happens then I am certain that Cogs is out of GWS. There is no other reason why they would extend Taranto a year early. Add this to the Tom Mitchell extension and the mail coming from the media and it is done.

 

[vanders]

Ill just be happy with cogs and patton. As much as i want whitfield i can't see the 3 giants landing at hawthorn at once. We do need a player to replace impy as our speedy hb wether its through the trade period or the draft that remains to be seen. Other players to consider would be jack martin and karl amon

CJ is the perfect Impey replacement

 

[tige19]

Cogs looks more and more likely by the day it seems

 

[tige19]

CJ is the perfect Impey replacement

Different players mate

 

[vanders]

I did stupidly say mid year that I had changed my tune on Cogs, but the more I think about it the more I realise I was looking at it wrong. The fact he can play forward and is a good contested mark is a massive plus.

I really would love Whitfield and hope we can get him, he is the one player in the league I would want more than any other. His disposal on both feet is Sam Mitchell-esque. Two first rounders for him would be massive unders, if thats all it takes to get him where do we sign.

 

[Roughie]

We wouldn’t be engaging them unless we were wanting to land them both and prepared to do what it takes, and especially after we got a good idea of what GWS expect coming back their way in a trade for a guy 1yr off free agency.

Surely if GWS had the feeling that Whitfield would walk next year they would explore trade options with clubs who could offer a lot more than we could

 

[beta_condition]

Surely if GWS had the feeling that Whitfield would walk next year they would explore trade options with clubs who could offer a lot more than we could

You can't force a player to be traded to x club, if he wants Hawthorn its best to deal now than wait a year,

 

[lickmerocks]

For those that watch the game very closely will notice a slight change in Omearas kicking action the past 3 weeks.

If you watch very closely he is taking an extra second and guiding the ball down to his boot much more that he has previously and is starting to hit targets more.

 

[cryptor]

You can't force a player to be traded to x club, if he wants Hawthorn its best to deal now than wait a year,

Though they would probably be asking themselves if it’s worth forgoing an extra first rounder just to have an extra year with a player of his talent. If they’re so close to a flag then they might want to maximize their chances by holding him to that final year.

 

[Bugs1977]

For those that watch the game very closely will notice a slight change in Omearas kicking action the past 3 weeks.

If you watch very closely he is taking an extra second and guiding the ball down to his boot much more that he has previously and is starting to hit targets more.

Apart from having Sammy on his case every day all day about his kicking... do you think this could also be a sign that his knee is a whole lot better than it has been since his patellar injuries? Last season and this one he’s look so much more confident.

 

[VandoHawk]

Though they would probably be asking themselves if it’s worth forgoing an extra first rounder just to have an extra year with a player of his talent. If they’re so close to a flag then they might want to maximize their chances by holding him to that final year.

Yeah it’s an interesting position for GWS if Whitfield openly indicates he will explore his FA rights at the end of his contract.

On one hand, he’s one of their best players and would have an understanding of their gameplan. He would be a useful piece when contending for a 2020 Premiership but would end up leaving for much under his market value.

Alternatively, you could choose to initiate a trade with Hawthorn to get a guaranteed top 10 Selection + another first round pick. This would strengthen your draft hand allowing you to pursue players or bring in additional talent. In combination with the departure of Coniglio/Patton it would allow you to complete restructure your salary cap to accomodate your talented youngsters. It would certainly be much more then you would get if he left as a FA. But you would lose an elite player when contending for 2020 and there’s no guarantee the Premiership window stays open.

Personally I don’t think they can lose two superstars in Coniglio/Whitfield in one offseason. Their list is incredibly talented but departures like that have significant effects both on and off field. But it would certainly be our gain if they did!

 

[PenAndPaper]

Hmmmm. Wonder why?

When we re-sign players its to make room in the cap for Cogs, when GWS re-sign players its because Cogs is going...I love Big Footy thinking sometimes.

 

[Brishawk]

When we re-sign players its to make room in the cap for Cogs, when GWS re-sign players its because Cogs is going...I love Big Footy thinking sometimes.

You know it’s true. Deep down you might even want it to be true...

 

[Rev08]

When we re-sign players its to make room in the cap for Cogs, when GWS re-sign players its because Cogs is going...I love Big Footy thinking sometimes.

The difference is, if Cogs were re-signing, GWS would just announce it. They have no reason to keep that quiet. Hawthorn on the other hand...

 

[SuperSic]

When we re-sign players its to make room in the cap for Cogs, when GWS re-sign players its because Cogs is going...I love Big Footy thinking sometimes.

The difference is, what incentive does Taranto have to re-sign a year early unless GWS have suddenly come across some salary cap that was not there previously that they have now offered to him?

On the other hand, what incentive does Hawthorn have to re-sign Tom Mitchell with a broken leg two years early unless they needed to re-structure their TPP to create space for an incoming player?

Very different situations

 

[SodaPop]

When we re-sign players its to make room in the cap for Cogs, when GWS re-sign players its because Cogs is going...I love Big Footy thinking sometimes.

As long as Carlton aren’t resigning players then we know they have no idea