Moved Thread Hawthorn - Excuse Now?

[laminex]

Their excuse is Ryan Schoenmakers if he doesnt play they probably win

So a 21 year old kid cost them the game, seems about big footy right to me.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Funny - have heard that one for the past 3 or 4 years now.....as you say bring on round 19 and we (in the immortal words of Paul Keating) "will do you slowly". More fun that way..

You'll have to excuse me and my use of "should've".

You see, when I saw my side cough up chance after chance in the last five minutes, I just assumed that the result could've easily been different, had we taken our chances.

Silly me.

 

[laminex]

No excuses can't beat Geelong no matter what.

To be fair no one else can either really

 

[winty]

So the cats win by two points over a team that finished below them the previous year with comparable outs (and I'm being generous to the cats here) and yet for them it is a stamp on their claim as one of the greatest ever, yet everyone bar the waterboy should come into question at the hawks?

Interesting logic to say the least...

So Hodge, Gilham, Bailey and Shiels are comparable, or even better, than Wojcinski, Varcoe, Scarlett, Josh Hunt, Menzel and one of Stephenson, Vardy or Simpson?

Cool story.

All summer we've had to put up with Hawks fans saying "Oh joy, no Ottens and Ling. Round 2 is going to be a shoo-in". Then we had injuries to Varcoe and Wojcinski, and Scarlo got suspended, and Hawks fans were getting even more lippy. Then for Geelong to come out and win, with youngsters like Christensen and Taylor Hunt playing key roles in the victory must be a real kick in the guts for you guys.

 

[laminex]

You'll have to excuse me and my use of "should've".

You see, when I saw my side cough up chance after chance in the last five minutes, I just assumed that the result could've easily been different, had we taken our chances.

Silly me.

could've won is a cruel joke to all supporters in the AFL, how many games have we all seen our club could've should've but didn't win. Thats what makes winning fun and losing hurt so ****ing much.

 

[year of the cat]

You'll have to excuse me and my use of "should've".

You see, when I saw my side cough up chance after chance in the last five minutes, I just assumed that the result could've easily been different, had we taken our chances.

Silly me.

I'll excuse you - the sincerity of your post is a tad dubious though..

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

could've won is a cruel joke to all supporters in the AFL, how many games have we all seen our club could've should've but didn't win. Thats what makes winning fun and losing hurt so ****ing much.

To be honest, yesterday was all too familiar. Left to rue another close one. Sooner or later we'll end this streak that the Cats have going. Can't come quick enough.

I'll excuse you - the sincerity of your post is a tad dubious though..

Cheers. You're a good egg.

 

[tige19]

So Hodge, Gilham, Bailey and Shiels are comparable, or even better, than Wojcinski, Varcoe, Scarlett, Josh Hunt, Menzel and one of Stephenson, Vardy or Simpson?

Cool story.

Mate, stop being bias! Whilst I'm a Hawks fan I'm not one eyed and certainly not fanatic, I went yesterday to watch the 2 supreme sides in the comp and the game lived up to everything I expected and everything AFL football should be.

The outs for both sides are very comparable, rating player against player individually and it's hard to split.

Hodge is the most superior player missing from that group of outs, one my question it but Scarlett whilst still a beauty is in his twighlight and Hodge at the peak. As a rating IMO without any bias it'd go as:

1. Hodge
2. Scarlett
3. Varcoe/Shiels (if you doubt Shiels google the kids stats)
4. Menzel
5. Gilham
6. Wojo/Hunt
7. Bailey/Vardy

The rest meh.

Overall Geelong may just shade the Hawks with depth of quality but it's minimal, I don't understand why both sets of supporters can't sit back and say 'hey we have the 2 best sides in the best rivalry if current times and there's nothing between us, let's enjoy'? I know as a Hawks fan you mentally have us covered (nothing to do with talent) however I still love and enjoy the games and I suppose until you blokes beat us in a GF there still has to be the thought that through history Hawthorn has Geelong covered when it really counts.

2012 GF should both make it will be the most anticipated GF in decades!

 

[QuietB]

All congratulations have to go to the Cats. They are an immense football side and the one to beat again this year. Win it this year and they win football immortality and I am pretty sure they know it.

 

[jive]

You obviously had the blinds down out at Armadale during the game?

It was raining pretty heavily throughout, but I think Hawthorn considering our game plan's reliance on precision kicking and leading forwards, were probably less happy with the conditions.

No, I was sitting in the uncovered area on the ground level. The weather was hardly atrocious by Victorian standards - a few light drizzles throughout the match, not some hurricane that some are describing the weather to have been.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

You'll have to excuse me and my use of "should've".

You see, when I saw my side cough up chance after chance in the last five minutes, I just assumed that the result could've easily been different, had we taken our chances.

Silly me.

Funny how quickly and easily you dismiss Collingwood supporters' "could woulda shoulda' claims about last week, yet your are no different this week.

Interesting.

Let's be honest, Collingwood could have easily been 8.1 to 2.1 last week and it's game over. We weren't missing shots from the boundary (like you were nailing from the boundary mind you), we were missing shots from directly in front, and all set shots.

But as the saying goes, bad kicking is bad football. But you shouldn't dismiss an excuse for others you plan on using youself when it suits.

 

[Pie eyed]

All congratulations have to go to the Cats. They are an immense football side and the one to beat again this year. Win it this year and they win football immortality and I am pretty sure they know it.

Two deserving contenders, in a seesawing match in average conditions, with recent history and more than a little bad blood.
Just makes for great football.
The perfect thing for any Easter Monday.

Excuses and nitpicking just detract from the fact we all get witness it.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Funny how quickly and easily you dismiss Collingwood supporters' "could woulda shoulda' claims about last week, yet your are no different this week.

Interesting.

Let's be honest, Collingwood could have easily been 8.1 to 2.1 last week and it's game over. We weren't missing shots from the boundary (like you were nailing from the boundary mind you), we were missing shots from directly in front, and all set shots.

But as the saying goes, bad kicking is bad football. But you shouldn't dismiss an excuse for others you plan on using youself when it suits.

You could've been 8 goals....but you weren't.

When we're discussing missed opportunities and in this particular instance the chance for the opposition to remedy the situation/scoreboard, Hawthorn yesterday and Collingwood last week are incomparable.

If all those behinds of Collingwood's were kicked in the last, then you may have had a point.

Hawthorn kicked 5 points in the last quarter. We choked.

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

Mate, stop being bias! Whilst I'm a Hawks fan I'm not one eyed and certainly not fanatic, I went yesterday to watch the 2 supreme sides in the comp and the game lived up to everything I expected and everything AFL football should be.

The outs for both sides are very comparable, rating player against player individually and it's hard to split.

Hodge is the most superior player missing from that group of outs, one my question it but Scarlett whilst still a beauty is in his twighlight and Hodge at the peak. As a rating IMO without any bias it'd go as:

1. Hodge
2. Scarlett
3. Varcoe/Shiels (if you doubt Shiels google the kids stats)
4. Menzel
5. Gilham
6. Wojo/Hunt
7. Bailey/Vardy

The rest meh.

Overall Geelong may just shade the Hawks with depth of quality but it's minimal, I don't understand why both sets of supporters can't sit back and say 'hey we have the 2 best sides in the best rivalry if current times and there's nothing between us, let's enjoy'? I know as a Hawks fan you mentally have us covered (nothing to do with talent) however I still love and enjoy the games and I suppose until you blokes beat us in a GF there still has to be the thought that through history Hawthorn has Geelong covered when it really counts.

2012 GF should both make it will be the most anticipated GF in decades!

You do realize Cats had 4 players with less then 10 games experience playing yesterday?

So there can be a case of our outs mean more to our team as a whole...

Anyway, the rest of your post I agreee with awesome game as always best rivalary in the comp

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

You could've been 8 goals....but you weren't.

When we're discussing missed opportunities and in this particular instance the chance for the opposition to remedy the situation/scoreboard, Hawthorn yesterday and Collingwood last week are incomparable.

If all those behinds of Collingwood's were kicked in the last, then you may have had a point.

Hawthorn kicked 5 points in the last quarter. We choked.

They are comparable. The quarter in which they were kicked is technically irrelevant. You can't assume Hawthorn would have gone on to outscore Collingwood by a 7 goal differential when they couldn't do it WITH Collingwood kicking all those behinds. Same way you can't assume Geelong wouldn't have snapped into action when you guys might have kicked 2 or 3 of those goals.

No one has a crystal ball.

Mind you, we also kicked 7 behinds in the third too, but that's besides the point.

Fact is, you're right, we COULD have kicked 8 goals in the first. Had we, it would have been game over. Same way had Hawthorn kicked theirs in the last, it would have been game over. They are directly comparable.

Anything else and you're just wallpapering over cracks.

 

[hk89]

They are comparable. The quarter in which they were kicked is technically irrelevant.

Fact is, you're right, we COULD have kicked 8 goals in the first. Had we, it would have been game over. Same way had Hawthorn kicked theirs in the last, it would have been game over. They are directly comparable.

These statements are logically inconsistent. If you want to allow all your scoring shots as goals, then you need to allow ours as well. As you claim it doesn't matter which quarter you score them in, we would win against you, as we had more scoring shots, and if you apply the same logic against cats, we win against them too.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

They are comparable. The quarter in which they were kicked is technically irrelevant. You can't assume Hawthorn would have gone on to outscore Collingwood by a 7 goal differential when they couldn't do it WITH Collingwood kicking all those behinds. Same way you can't assume Geelong wouldn't have snapped into action when you guys might have kicked 2 or 3 of those goals.

No one has a crystal ball.

Mind you, we also kicked 7 behinds in the third too, but that's besides the point.

Fact is, you're right, we COULD have kicked 8 goals in the first. Had we, it would have been game over. Same way had Hawthorn kicked theirs in the last, it would have been game over. They are directly comparable.

Anything else and you're just wallpapering over cracks.

Your logic is way off base.

If Collingwood kick 8 goals in the first quarter, Hawthorn have 3 quarters to edge back in front. It is not "game over" at quarter time, no matter how indestructible you believe Collingwood to be. There are still three quarters to play.

If Collingwood were to have had 8 shots in the last, and gone down by a goal, then you'd have a point.

Hawthorn kicked 5 points in the last and lost by 2, and had they been 5 goals, Geelong, with no time left, were done.

 

[witsend]

In a game of that magnitude, Hawthorn were literally inches or a held mark by Roughead from ending The Streak and then the entire perspective of the game changes.
However....
What is an issue from the Hawk's and every other team's perspective is Geelong's ability to claw back from seemingly difficult if not nigh on impossible positions to either win or almost win.
We gave Freo a 30-0 start last week and yet almost stole it.
One can argue yesterdays game was a "coin-toss" result, but when you toss the coin 8 times and it always comes up heads, you have to query whether Geelong own the coin!
They have a self-belief off the charts but are prepared to put their bodies on the lion to achieve success in the crunch games.
Yesterday, and in the 2009 and 2011 GFs they held their opponents goal-less through sheer will power.

 

[witsend]

Your logic is way off base.

If Collingwood kick 8 goals in the first quarter, Hawthorn have 3 quarters to edge back in front. It is not "game over" at quarter time, no matter how indestructible you believe Collingwood to be. There are still three quarters to play.

If Collingwood were to have had 8 shots in the last, and gone down by a goal, then you'd have a point.

Hawthorn kicked 5 points in the last and lost by 2, and had they been 5 goals, Geelong, with no time left, were done.

Then there's that whole "Parallel Universe" thing. Every point that becomes a goal changes the entire future of the game. You simply can't extrapolate that way unless it's a kick after the siren in any given quarter.

 

[Pessimistic]

Geelong much more even across the whole ground.

The whole team read the flight of the ball much better on monday

 

[hk89]

In a game of that magnitude, Hawthorn were literally inches or a held mark by Roughead from ending The Streak and then the entire perspective of the game changes.
However....
What is an issue from the Hawk's and every other team's perspective is Geelong's ability to claw back from seemingly difficult if not nigh on impossible positions to either win or almost win.
We gave Freo a 30-0 start last week and yet almost stole it.
One can argue yesterdays game was a "coin-toss" result, but when you toss the coin 8 times and it always comes up heads, you have to query whether Geelong own the coin!
They have a self-belief off the charts but are prepared to put their bodies on the lion to achieve success in the crunch games.
Yesterday, and in the 2009 and 2011 GFs they held their opponents goal-less through sheer will power.

Agree with all this. On the other hand, I do believe yesterdays game was a bit more of a coin toss than our previous close encounters, where yesterday Geelong was able to capitalise on our mistakes, whereas in previous games they just turned the game by pure force of will, and seemed to leave Hawks players with no control over the outcome. Yesterday Hawthorn had some control over their fate , but still lost. God damn Geelong, and their perpetually "lucky" coin

 

[Pessimistic]

So Hodge, Gilham, Bailey and Shiels are comparable, or even better, than Wojcinski, Varcoe, Scarlett, Josh Hunt, Menzel and one of Stephenson, Vardy or Simpson?

Cool story.

All summer we've had to put up with Hawks fans saying "Oh joy, no Ottens and Ling. Round 2 is going to be a shoo-in". Then we had injuries to Varcoe and Wojcinski, and Scarlo got suspended, and Hawks fans were getting even more lippy. Then for Geelong to come out and win, with youngsters like Christensen and Taylor Hunt playing key roles in the victory must be a real kick in the guts for you guys.

In the last game of 2008, when geelong won, captain harley even trolled and sad 'not bad with x, y, z, 1, 2 and 3 out of our side'

Trouble is the Hawthorn outs that day , while not brownlow contenders, came in and made the difference in the grand final - Dew, Williams etc.

So you can never say that with absolute certainty

(gets ready for 'Oh not 2008 again' comments)

 

[Duskfire]

Agree with all this. On the other hand, I do believe yesterdays game was a bit more of a coin toss than our previous close encounters, where yesterday Geelong was able to capitalise on our mistakes, whereas in previous games they just turned the game by pure force of will, and seemed to leave Hawks players with no control over the outcome. Yesterday Hawthorn had some control over their fate , but still lost. God damn Geelong, and their perpetually "lucky" coin

The 09' game where Bartel kicked a point after the siren was very similar to this one. Geelong flying from behind, no Scarlett either, Franklin and other forwards making a bunch of mistakes in front of goal which cost them the game, Bartel kicking clutch goals (or points in this case.)

 

[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

When the heat is really on there are too many fragile minds out there in brown and gold.

Let's face it, if the Pies weren't as dusty in front of goal that game would have been all over at half time.

For mine the Hawks are behind Geelong, Collingwood, Carlton and West Coast atm. Adelaide, Freo and Sydney would probably beat them interstate as well.

I think we can now say with confidence that 2008 was a fluke.

Dispicable.

OH,MY,GOD!

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Then there's that whole "Parallel Universe" thing. Every point that becomes a goal changes the entire future of the game. You simply can't extrapolate that way unless it's a kick after the siren in any given quarter.

Much agreed.