News Hawthorn Racism Review - No player name speculation - opposition posters tread very carefully

[Strapping Young Lad]

Wrong. Hawks did what they had to do by the rules of the AFL.

Correct. For reference below, once the HFC had the report outlining serious allegations they were duty bound by the AFL’s protocol to hand over the report to the AFL integrity unit.

I will pin this post, as it seems to be a constant query.

 

[DogDaySonny]

Possible but unlikely the families had copies of the whole report. I would have thought at that point in time only the HFC, Phil Egan, and the AFL had copies of the report.

Possible. I don't think we've heard the actual distribution list for the report. Maybe we have, but I'm not certain.

I wonder how the reports were handled. Jeff implies that Hawthorn used the highest document security controls which would be something like on-site, secure, in-person, device-less viewing of a physical copy. I really hope Hawthorn was that controlled because it would make any court testimony pure gold as we find how insecure other parties were with the reports.

Anyways, we can dream. This thing was undoubtedly emailed around and stored on unsecured drives at the AFL and perhaps Hawthorn. Perhaps copies were watermarked and locked so it is possible to identify which specific copy was leaked. But really, these aren't state secrets we're talking about here so none of that was done.

Regardless, it will never get to court. Someone is going to blink. I just hope it isn't Hawthorn.

 

[thehardway]

Possible. I don't think we've heard the actual distribution list for the report. Maybe we have, but I'm not certain.

I wonder how the reports were handled. Jeff implies that Hawthorn used the highest document security controls which would be something like on-site, secure, in-person, device-less viewing of a physical copy. I really hope Hawthorn was that controlled because it would make any court testimony pure gold as we find how insecure other parties were with the reports.

Anyways, we can dream. This thing was undoubtedly emailed around and stored on unsecured drives at the AFL and perhaps Hawthorn. Perhaps copies were watermarked and locked so it is possible to identify which specific copy was leaked. But really, these aren't state secrets we're talking about here so none of that was done.

Regardless, it will never get to court. Someone is going to blink. I just hope it isn't Hawthorn.

Notwithstanding all that JK is correct. Once the families told their stories to the ABC the cat was out of the bag and the damage done. The subsequent leaking of the whole report was then largely inconsequential.

 

[CHUBBSS]

Someone should write an report on Caro and clarkos ongoing pr work together

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Someone should write an report on Caro and clarkos ongoing pr work together

I have to word this carefully as I don't want slander charges to come the way of these forums...

The way caro has changed her tune from. Hating everything clarko did for 25 years, to "poor clarko," he's obviously leaking info to her, or they are enjoying each other's company.

She has not changed her tune on anything, ever, even when proven wrong. Hell, she was reasonably anti-hardwick when the tigers were winning flags because she was anti-hardwick in the years leading up to it

 

[Mercy Seat]

From what I understand, the leaking isn't really the issue. I don't think the club is being accused of that.

What I've heard a few times (including from an ex-premiership hawk) is the gripe at the club is more the fact that we gave credence to stories that the club supposedly knew were mostly not true or accurate and didn't even give the coaches the opportunity to nip it in the bud by bringing them into the process, or just giving them a heads up. This seems to go back to this murky issue of "guardrails" and structure.

There's also a strong rumour that Clarkson believes (or did believe) that there were people at the club (no longer there), who, because of personal beefs, purposely directed Egan towards certain narratives. I don't believe this could be true, but if there was something even suggesting this, it could explain a payout in the millions.

 

[Mercy Seat]

I have to word this carefully as I don't want slander charges to come the way of these forums...

The way caro has changed her tune from. Hating everything clarko did for 25 years, to "poor clarko," he's obviously leaking info to her, or they are enjoying each other's company.

She has not changed her tune on anything, ever, even when proven wrong. Hell, she was reasonably anti-hardwick when the tigers were winning flags because she was anti-hardwick in the years leading up to it

Caro has been ruthless on Clarkson all year, including this racism saga where she said he should never work again. She has softened a bit since, but has still been hard on him, even arrowing him for suggesting he celebrated too hard after the freo win. No love lost between those two.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Yeah i am still worried about the big rumours surrounding our then CEO. He got into a few fisticuffs with Brisbane officials and seems to be the angst or issue. Its well known he had some real issues with Clarko

 

[DogDaySonny]

From what I understand, the leaking isn't really the issue. I don't think the club is being accused of that.

What I've heard a few times (including from an ex-premiership hawk) is the gripe at the club is more the fact that we gave credence to stories that the club supposedly knew were mostly not true or accurate and didn't even give the coaches the opportunity to nip it in the bud by bringing them into the process, or just giving them a heads up. This seems to go back to this murky issue of "guardrails" and structure.

There's also a strong rumour that Clarkson believes (or did believe) that there were people at the club (no longer there), who, because of personal beefs, purposely directed Egan towards certain narratives. I don't believe this could be true, but if there was something even suggesting this, it could explain a payout in the millions.

Hasn't the nip-it-in-the-bud been addressed with the claim that the AFL process didn't allow that? First, you ask the players and see if there's a there there, then you give it to the AFL, and then the AFL does an all-parties review. Is that right?

I'm working from a foggy memory and don't want to look up and read the stuff again.

From memory, the story (from the club) is this: They heard via the grapevine that some players were unhappy, so they commissioned Egan to go see if there was any there there. The report comes back and Hawthorn says, "This might be some serious stuff." Then they immediately give the report/complaints to the AFL, which is responsible for determining how the complaints will be investigated. A week or two later one of the players talks to the ABC. A few days after that someone gives a copy of the report to the ABC or the HS, I can't remember which.

The argument is that the report was not a comprehensive fact-finding mission and Hawthorn was not authorised to do that without instruction from the AFL. Instead, this was Hawthorn finding out if there actually were complaints and upon finding that yes, four players did actually have them, they sent those complaints (the report) to the AFL for the next steps. Am I remembering correctly?

 

[DogDaySonny]

Yeah i am still worried about the big rumours surrounding our then CEO. He got into a few fisticuffs with Brisbane officials and seems to be the angst or issue. Its well known he had some real issues with Clarko

Did he come to blows with Brisbane officials multiple times? I never heard this rumour. And is the idea that he disliked Clarkson so much that he engineered this whole process?

 

[TheFourPillars]

Did he come to blows with Brisbane officials multiple times? I never heard this rumour. And is the idea that he disliked Clarkson so much that he engineered this whole process?

There were some rumours mate hopefully just that

 

[Mercy Seat]

Hasn't the nip-it-in-the-bud been addressed with the claim that the AFL process didn't allow that? First, you ask the players and see if there's a there there, then you give it to the AFL, and then the AFL does an all-parties review. Is that right?

I'm working from a foggy memory and don't want to look up and read the stuff again.

From memory, the story (from the club) is this: They heard via the grapevine that some players were unhappy, so they commissioned Egan to go see if there was any there there. The report comes back and Hawthorn says, "This might be some serious stuff." Then they immediately give the report/complaints to the AFL, which is responsible for determining how the complaints will be investigated. A week or two later one of the players talks to the ABC. A few days after that someone gives a copy of the report to the ABC or the HS, I can't remember which.

The argument is that the report was not a comprehensive fact-finding mission and Hawthorn was not authorised to do that without instruction from the AFL. Instead, this was Hawthorn finding out if there actually were complaints and upon finding that yes, four players did actually have them, they sent those complaints (the report) to the AFL for the next steps. Am I remembering correctly?

I think your recollection of what happened is pretty much right, however, the interpretation of these events by the AFL and other parties, against what we supposedly should have actually done is widely different.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I have to word this carefully as I don't want slander charges to come the way of these forums...

The way caro has changed her tune from. Hating everything clarko did for 25 years, to "poor clarko," he's obviously leaking info to her, or they are enjoying each other's company.

She has not changed her tune on anything, ever, even when proven wrong. Hell, she was reasonably anti-hardwick when the tigers were winning flags because she was anti-hardwick in the years leading up to it

She did a segment on FC this year saying she was wrong about our rebuild and accusing us of tanking. She absolutely can admit when she is wrong - she's not brishawk.

 

[theiaofseed]

It's a good time to have $70m in the bank at > 4% deposit rates. If a payout eventuates I don't think it will hurt too much.

Where are you getting the 70 mill count from?

Just for reference 4.5% of 70 million is 3.1 million.

 

[Sixpence]

From what I understand, the leaking isn't really the issue. I don't think the club is being accused of that.

What I've heard a few times (including from an ex-premiership hawk) is the gripe at the club is more the fact that we gave credence to stories that the club supposedly knew were mostly not true or accurate and didn't even give the coaches the opportunity to nip it in the bud by bringing them into the process, or just giving them a heads up. This seems to go back to this murky issue of "guardrails" and structure.

There's also a strong rumour that Clarkson believes (or did believe) that there were people at the club (no longer there), who, because of personal beefs, purposely directed Egan towards certain narratives. I don't believe this could be true, but if there was something even suggesting this, it could explain a payout in the millions.

This reads a little like people are pissed that Hawthorn didn't suitably look after the "boys club". If accusations have been made, I don't think we owe to anyone to give them a "heads up". Commission the report and let it play out from there was the correct approach.

 

[arupist]

I have to word this carefully as I don't want slander charges to come the way of these forums...

The way caro has changed her tune from. Hating everything clarko did for 25 years, to "poor clarko," he's obviously leaking info to her, or they are enjoying each other's company.

She has not changed her tune on anything, ever, even when proven wrong. Hell, she was reasonably anti-hardwick when the tigers were winning flags because she was anti-hardwick in the years leading up to it

This was not necessary. I mean, have you seen Caro lately?

 

[Bugs1977]

Possible. I don't think we've heard the actual distribution list for the report. Maybe we have, but I'm not certain.

I wonder how the reports were handled. Jeff implies that Hawthorn used the highest document security controls which would be something like on-site, secure, in-person, device-less viewing of a physical copy. I really hope Hawthorn was that controlled because it would make any court testimony pure gold as we find how insecure other parties were with the reports.

Anyways, we can dream. This thing was undoubtedly emailed around and stored on unsecured drives at the AFL and perhaps Hawthorn. Perhaps copies were watermarked and locked so it is possible to identify which specific copy was leaked. But really, these aren't state secrets we're talking about here so none of that was done.

Regardless, it will never get to court. Someone is going to blink. I just hope it isn't Hawthorn.

Your last sentence has me feeling like the last day of trade period

 

[Charchi]

As a member of 40 plus years I hate to see our club dragged through the mud like this with trial by media and being hung out to dry by the AFL.
I would like the club to dig in and close ranks, Gowers should be quiet.
Let the complainants, whether they be former players and/or former coaches/officials go through the legal process to get at HFC.
If they have the courage to actually start proceedings and spend some of their own money, they have to publish their reasons and HFC have the ability to analyse and respond.
At present we seem to be jumping at shadows and as soon as it gets a little tricky for the complainants there is another leak of tainted information to the media who just lap it up.
Time for these people to put up or shut up.
For me, it's us against the rest now.

 

[smish]

Where are you getting the 70 mill count from?

Just for reference 4.5% of 70 million is 3.1 million.

Balance sheet 31/10/2022

Hawthorn's annual reports

See all previous annual reports from the Hawthorn Football Club

www.hawthornfc.com.au

 

[TylerDurden]

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Why would a club just try and get an ugly PR episode done with says sycophant for club who destroyed itself by persisting with defending the indefensible for half a decade.

 

[DogDaySonny]

O.M.G. I just read this article and everything Robbo says is logical and makes sense. The arguments are even laid out in complete sentences and presented as fully-formed ideas. So now I’m thinking there are three possibilities:

1. This is so obvious that even a moron can comprehend the situation.

2. ChatGPT did Robbo’s homework.

3. I have been hitting the sauce all afternoon myself.

 

[kirbatron]

This reads a little like people are pissed that Hawthorn didn't suitably look after the "boys club". If accusations have been made, I don't think we owe to anyone to give them a "heads up". Commission the report and let it play out from there was the correct approach.

This is the AFL. It's exactly what is expected. protect the brand first.

 

[natio]

Yeah i am still worried about the big rumours surrounding our then CEO. He got into a few fisticuffs with Brisbane officials and seems to be the angst or issue. Its well known he had some real issues with Clarko

This.

Reeves and Jeff became a toxic disaster. I see people taking potshots at Clarko and how he left and his relationship to the club. Jeff and Reeves were a disaster. How they handled the coaching change over (yes Clarko leaked to Caro, but he was being backed into a corner by Jeff, who always leaks to the media, and Reeves). Toward the end those two created a toxic environment at the club and know nothing about football. Think of Reeves reign as CEO. Mediocrity would be kind.

For all Clarksons faults, when it comes to integrity between him and Jeff/Reeves, i know who i trust.

 

[Randy Campbell]

Balance sheet 31/10/2022

Hawthorn's annual reports

See all previous annual reports from the Hawthorn Football Club

www.hawthornfc.com.au

I would like to know, how much we spent on our Human Resources department in the last 10 years?

The AFL needs to pretend that they provide a fair and safe workplace.
To me the system is so broken, it would not surprise me if it was cheaper to just make one off lump sum hush payments to fix the problems.

 

[Howe Amazing]

According to 7 news payouts will be just over a mill in total. Although not ideal you have to think Gowers played a part here from any further punishment, so if that is what it costs to move on from this, you pay it.