News Hawthorn Racism Review - No player name speculation - opposition posters tread very carefully

[Strapping Young Lad]

Wrong. Hawks did what they had to do by the rules of the AFL.

Correct. For reference below, once the HFC had the report outlining serious allegations they were duty bound by the AFL’s protocol to hand over the report to the AFL integrity unit.

I will pin this post, as it seems to be a constant query.

 

[TylerDurden]

Hawks assistant ‘backs up’ some allegations as AFL boss concedes ‘livelihoods’ at stake

Hawks assistant ‘backs up’ some allegations AFL boss says ‘livelihoods’ at stake

www.foxsports.com.au

This doesn't look good for Clarko.

 

[Lethality]

Were indigenous players singled out for this kind of treatment? There's a big difference between this kind of thing happening across the player list, and the club treating indigenous players differently.

 

[eldorado]

Were indigenous players singled out for this kind of treatment? There's a big difference between this kind of thing happening across the player list, and the club treating indigenous players differently.

We're not sure at this stage.

I would actually be comforted by the thought that it was across the list.

It would be be complete club-wide psychopathy, making it much harder for a larger number of people to claim ignorance...but at least it would non-discriminatory psychopathy.

 

[Flamin Joe]

This doesn't look good for Clarko.

Yes but the million dollar question is what does this "some parts" consist of? For all we know it could just be the SIM card changing allegations which of course crosses the line and is unacceptable, but you could argue not at the same level as the allegations about suggesting an abortion.

Just way too early to read much into anything at this moment.

 

[ahhhhhh]

The more I think about it, the less I believe the club sat on a report that could financially devastate us and destroy our reputation for two weeks without doing anything.

 

[Nugett]

I know it’s our team and that makes it hard to accept that our club has done this.

But reading between the lines of Gil said. It’s probably going to get worse than better.

I don’t think this has a good ending. Just bad and worse endings. Our club has obviously caused a significant amount of hurt to some former players and their families.

I don’t think that hurt was deliberately caused. At least I hope not. But it also can’t be undone

I don’t think it pertains to just our club. There were issues at Collingwood. Fremantle are now doing a review, it will not surprise me if there are more topics being brought up as other clubs do a review of their past practices in dealing with players welfare. Hopefully out of this, The club, the other clubs, The AFL and eventually society can learn from the mistakes and callous actions and put procedures in place to minimise the risk of allowing it to continue, or happen again.

 

[ahhhhhh]

Yes but the million dollar question is what does this "some parts" consist of? For all we know it could just be the SIM card changing allegations which of course crosses the line and is unacceptable, but you could argue not at the same level as the allegations about suggesting an abortion.

Just way too early to read much into anything at this moment.

You’ve completely missed the entire point if you’re just getting hung up on the abortion thing. All of the behaviour described in the article was completely unacceptable in any workplace and was all inherently racist.

 

[Nugett]

The role of player welfare officer needs to be removed from the clubs, and replaced with an AFL/AFLPA association funded welfare staff stationed at each club.

Each would have guaranteed unfettered access to players, with severe sanctions for any clubs that tries to interfere in this relationship.

Almost like a Workcover person, but there full time.

I would go one step further by implementing that the players in individual meetings are allowed to have an independent representative with them.

 

[eldorado]

I would go one step further by implementing that the players in individual meetings are allowed to have an independent representative with them.

Funnily enough, I was about to edit my original post to include this very thing

Absolutely. Player-rep.

 

[Flamin Joe]

You’ve completely missed the entire point if you’re just getting hung up on the abortion thing. All of the behaviour described in the report was completely unacceptable in any workplace and was all inherently racist.

I haven't missed any point in fact you missed the part where I clearly said the SIM card allegation was unacceptable.

I used the two purely as examples in making my point about not knowing what is being collaborated. Have no idea how I'm getting hung up on the "abortion thing" when I've literally mentioned it once.

 

[The hands of stone]

I don’t think it pertains to just our club. There were issues at Collingwood. Fremantle are now doing a review, it will not surprise me if there are more topics being brought up as other clubs do a review of their past practices in dealing with players welfare. Hopefully out of this, The club, the other clubs, The AFL and eventually society can learn from the mistakes and callous actions and put procedures in place to minimise the risk of allowing it to continue, or happen again.

All clubs will do a review and I dare say all will be rightfully concerned of what will come out of it .
Collingwood and now us have rightfully copped the heat we deserve and will continue too . As we should .
It would be naive to think this isnt a club wide , competition and organization wide issue

Eddie Betts was fantastic the other night , hearing his experience at a local pool was nothing short of heartbreaking .

 

[rei154]

The role of player welfare officer needs to be removed from the clubs, and replaced with an AFL/AFLPA association funded welfare staff stationed at each club.

Each would have guaranteed unfettered access to players, even during private meetings, with severe sanctions for any club that tries to interfere in this relationship.

Almost like a Workcover person, but there full time or near full-time.

Couldn't agree more.
Independent welfare workers are a necessity- as weird as it sounds it would make sense for AFL clubs to have social workers, just as much as it makes sense that they have Psychologists.

Allowing clubs to organise their own is a little lite the Church being allowed to airlift a chaplain into government school... It doesn't sit right and could lead to too many biases.

 

[Rocket72]

The role of player welfare officer needs to be removed from the clubs, and replaced with an AFL/AFLPA association funded welfare staff stationed at each club.

Each would have guaranteed unfettered access to players, even during private meetings, with severe sanctions for any club that tries to interfere in this relationship.

Almost like a Workcover person, but there full time or near full-time.

While this is a better idea than current, I'd go one step further. I think there are still at least perceived conflict of interest and power imbalance. Would you disclose to an AFL staff member if you were accusing a coach of serious misconduct? Not sure I would. What is needed is something like an ombudsman, who is totally independent. It could still be funded by the AFL with appropriate separations in their charter. You might even set it up to have whistleblower type protections in some cases.

 

[rei154]

While this is a better idea than current, I'd go one step further. I think there are still at least perceived conflict of interest and power imbalance. Would you disclose to an AFL staff member if you were accusing a coach of serious misconduct? Not sure I would. What is needed is something like an ombudsman, who is totally independent. It could still be funded by the AFL with appropriate separations in their charter. You might even set it up to have whistleblower type protections in some cases.

That's where welfare workers/social workers could actually empower individuals further to do so.
Confronting a body of power alone with that sort of mistreatment can be really difficult.

 

[Holy Rioli]

Silencing someone on the issue of racism is not ok. Acknowledge that this situation can be trauma inducing for our first nation's people.

Westcoast88 it's terrible and if proven true then we as a club should be ashamed. This goes way beyond football. Thanks for speaking up

it's worth being extra gentle with Westcoast88 as he's directly related to Dayle Garlett

 

[Rocket72]

Couldn't agree more.
Independent welfare workers are a necessity- as weird as it sounds it would make sense for AFL clubs to have social workers, just as much as it makes sense that they have Psychologists.

Allowing clubs to organise their own is a little lite the Church being allowed to airlift a chaplain into government school... It doesn't sit right and could lead to too many biases.

Some clubs have people who are ostensibly social workers, if not actually qualified as such. I'm not religious but the club preist used to play an important role, not sure about that any more. You are right, you are going to miss a good deal of problems if the health professional or similar is employed by the club. Who would disclose that you have issues that might pause or stop your career to a club employee? Maybe if it was a Psych who had confidentiality requirements, but that's speaking as a Psych, I doubt most people actually trust that Psych's really do keep things confidential (which they do btw!)

 

[BlueWaterHawk]

Just to check how cooked some people are here.

Can you please let me know if you feel that Wayne Carey had a bag of crushed-up anti-inflammatories in Crown and has been persecuted by the media without an ability to tell his story.

Try Facebook, Bigfooty response has been pretty level compared to that dumpster fire.

 

[phlogiston]

While this is a better idea than current, I'd go one step further. I think there are still at least perceived conflict of interest and power imbalance. Would you disclose to an AFL staff member if you were accusing a coach of serious misconduct? Not sure I would. What is needed is something like an ombudsman, who is totally independent. It could still be funded by the AFL with appropriate separations in their charter. You might even set it up to have whistleblower type protections in some cases.

Good idea, and a similar structure exists in a lot of corporates where they have an Employee Assistance Program (EAP) or something similar. Funded by the employer, staff can use it X times per year, and everything stays confidential. There would need to be some tweaks specifically for this use, but the base model is 90% of the way there.

 

[Lickmesocks]

Can you please let me know if you feel that Wayne Carey had a bag of crushed-up anti-inflammatories in Crown and has been persecuted by the media without an ability to tell his story.

Sure we understand what you are saying but can you sack someone from there job without evidence either by a drug test or testing the substance .

I am not a lawyer but interested in someone’s knowledge about how far you can go as the employer before possibly facing a lawsuit yourself .

 

[hamohawk1]

‘No question’: Hawthorn likely faces legal action over Indigenous player claims

This quote struck a chord.
'He told the ABC a group of leadership figures within the club urged him to have the pregnancy terminated and to “get rid” of his partner.'

While Clarkson, Fagan and Burt have been consistently raised i find it hard to believe that the leadership crew of Hodge, Lewis, Mitchell would not be somewhat aware of this.

Not for a second claiming that this means its right, someone is telling BS but surely the key playing figureheads would've had some feel for the general going on's.

Even Hodgey alluded to it when he provided that quote of trepidation about engaging clarkson as coach.

 

[H00t]

I don’t think it pertains to just our club. There were issues at Collingwood. Fremantle are now doing a review, it will not surprise me if there are more topics being brought up as other clubs do a review of their past practices in dealing with players welfare. Hopefully out of this, The club, the other clubs, The AFL and eventually society can learn from the mistakes and callous actions and put procedures in place to minimise the risk of allowing it to continue, or happen again.

There’d be probably some very bad stuff at most clubs. Bringing it to the surface and healing the hurt that has been caused would be for the best. Society as a whole has come so far, but still has a long way to go.

I can’t see the AFL letting that happen though. They bury their head in the sand at the first sign of something going wrong.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

‘No question’: Hawthorn likely faces legal action over Indigenous player claims

This quote struck a chord.
'He told the ABC a group of leadership figures within the club urged him to have the pregnancy terminated and to “get rid” of his partner.'

While Clarkson, Fagan and Burt have been consistently raised i find it hard to believe that the leadership crew of Hodge, Lewis, Mitchell would not be somewhat aware of this.

Not for a second claiming that this means its right, someone is telling BS but surely the key playing figureheads would've had some feel for the general going on's.

Even Hodgey alluded to it when he provided that quote of trepidation about engaging clarkson as coach.

Copying over a post that I made yesterday in response to this.

Tim Watson spoke yesterday about Mitchell, Hodge and Burgoyne's insistence that they knew nothing of these allegations and he was categoric that this made complete sense, because when he was St Kilda coach there were player conversations and welfare discussions that were never had outside of a very small group (player, coach, welfare coordinator).

The idea that the playing group would have known or somehow involved themselves in this is not something that was presented in the article so unless we chose to believe that Jackson just sat on something as large as that, I think it's a bridge too far.
Especially when we know that Gil has said that “There was actually more in the papers yesterday, more substantive stuff, than was in the report in many senses.”).

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

So you're saying it's "racist" for someone to suggest a 'independent' report written by an indigenous ex-footballer might be biased towards indigenous footballers

Isn't that a bit like the whole narrative surrounding systemic racism and white privilege?
That systems & hierarchies created by white people are biased towards white people and inherently biased against black people.

You don't think that's a double standard?

No, I don’t think it’s a double standard because this report is nothing more than truth telling from a number of separate parties.
It’s not fabricated policies or rulings made on behalf of a people.
It’s not really comparable in that sense.

Needless to say I’m not leaving posts up like yours for actual racists to get behind and use as an argument.

 

[Faithful Hawk]

Dear members, I wanted to touch base with you all in light of some of the news and issues that have emerged in the past few days. It has been a very challenging time for our club. An important time for reflection, listening and learning. I thought it may be helpful to go back a few months to how we got to today and what will happen from here. Earlier this year, following some media reports, Hawthorn Football Club engaged external First Nations consultants to liaise with current and former First Nations players and staff to learn more about their experience at the club. This was always about finding out if any of them required any further support in their life after football and learn more about their time at Hawthorn. We did not know what we would find, but we felt it was an important and responsible thing to do. Around two weeks ago we received the results of that work. And as you can now see, some of those stories are disturbing. We are profoundly heartbroken that there are people who feel like this about their experience at our club. Upon receipt of that report, we immediately engaged AFL Integrity – both because it was a recommendation, and because it was the most appropriate next step. From here, those named in the reports would be interviewed and be given the opportunity to respond and tell their story. That leads us to where we are today where there were media reports with some of our former players and their families telling their stories publicly. The club will continue to offer support to those who have participated in this process, and their wellbeing remains our priority. We want to assure you that will continue to be the case. Some may ask why we are not releasing the actual report, and it is a good question. Many of the people who participated in the report did so on the basis that it would be confidential. We won’t breach that trust. The report also found the current environment is culturally safe. But this is something we should focus our attention on and strive for ongoing improvement. My commitment is that we will continue to do that. As you may have now seen, the AFL is commencing a process to investigate the matters fully. We are completely supportive of this and will cooperate. This may take some time, but we want to assure you all we are committed to this work, and we will keep you all up to date as appropriate. We know that the past few days have been challenging, but we must use this as an opportunity to improve our club and make it the best it can possibly be. We will be in touch with updates as they come to hand. Justin Reeves Chief Executive Officer Hawthorn Football Club

 

[Faithful Hawk]

I have sat and thought about what has been reported over the last few days and to say that I feel pretty saddened is probably an understatement.

But I am also proud that the current Club Administration has firstly taken the steps to unearth what has happened in the past and to start ensuring that we simply do better moving forward.

It takes immense strength of character of the victims to firstly discuss these accusations and then to have them publicly aired for all to judge. I wish them all the best and hope this a major step for them in the healing process and they are given all the support they need.

This is a line in the sand moment not just for the Hawthorn Football and the AFL but for Australian Society as a whole, we all must learn and simply be better people to each other.