News Hawthorn Racism Review - No player name speculation - opposition posters tread very carefully

[Strapping Young Lad]

Wrong. Hawks did what they had to do by the rules of the AFL.

Correct. For reference below, once the HFC had the report outlining serious allegations they were duty bound by the AFL’s protocol to hand over the report to the AFL integrity unit.

I will pin this post, as it seems to be a constant query.

 

[Kwality]

I understand Hodge's point of view here, but just because he appreciated and responded well to the type of strong handed guidance they gave doesn't mean it's the correct course of action across the board.

Indeed & Hodgey makes that very point to all those who have found Clarko/Fagan/Hawthorn guilty of anything.
Sadly some people wont understand the point that Hodgey is making.

 

[Gaborone]

Must say i am a bit surprised Hodgey has entered the arena here. Its a very complex situation already, with accusations being thrown and denied left, right and centre, with likely long and costly legal proceedings for all.

Whether the right or wrong thing to do, he obviously feels very strongly about Clarkson, Fagan and Burt.

It's about time someone stood up. Thus far the club's response has been cowardly. This is a culture clash. Lack of awareness on one side and hypersensitivity on the other. It should have been used to build better understanding and processes rather than kicking it down the road.

 

[Billyc]

While I have no issue with Hodge speaking positively about people who have had a large influence on his life, his comments are about as relevant to the current issues as when Sloane and Walker said the Adelaide camp was a great experience for them.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

While I have no issue with Hodge speaking positively about people who have had a large influence on his life, his comments are about as relevant to the current issues as when Sloane and Walker said the Adelaide camp was a great experience for them.

Harsh but true.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

It's about time someone stood up. Thus far the club's response has been cowardly. This is a culture clash. Lack of awareness on one side and hypersensitivity on the other. It should have been used to build better understanding and processes rather than kicking it down the road.

How about we don’t call it hypersensitivity, when the allegations are pretty yuck.

 

[Hodgey 15]

Hodgey.

Awesome to see this response from Hodgey.
Love it.

On SM-G950F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Kwality]

Harsh but true.

Hodge's reference to family gives his comments relevance beyond the fire walking comparison. Family is relevant to the accusers too.

 

[Billyc]

Last year Clarkson’s manager leaked to her.
This may be more of the same, because this latest article helps paint Clarkson as just a hard task master, rather than racist.

I read Caroline Wilson’s article as a case for the defence too. Ie - Clarkson was controlling over the lives of all players, even the white guys, therefore this isn’t a racial issue. Of course that argument overlooks the significant lived and cultural differences between players and is irrelevant to the specific allegations that are unique to those players. But it can be used to frame an argument of cultural misunderstanding and ignorance, combined with good intentions, rather than targeted racism. I reckon that’s the narrative the accused will run with, together with blanket denials of the most serious and damning allegations.

The Mitchell story further emphasises the disrespect toward and mistreatment of women by the club though. Horrible treatment of his wife, trying to isolate her from her husband and the father of their children during that time.

 

[Gaborone]

While I have no issue with Hodge speaking positively about people who have had a large influence on his life, his comments are about as relevant to the current issues as when Sloane and Walker said the Adelaide camp was a great experience for them.

Not quite. Hodge's comments contextualise behaviours in a professional football club that has as its goal, premierships. Let's gets some things straight. Football clubs are only able to draft a certain number of players each year. If the player doesn't work out they can't go down to the local supermarket and pick up another. The pressure is on to help the player be successful. The treatment at Hawthorn accorded non First Nations players appears to be the same as that accorded to First Nations players - this includes having draftees stay with families or in selected accommodation. They receive the same amount of money (as draftees) and have the same opportunity. We're talking about a job and for a job this treatment is fair.

However, what appears to have been missing on the part of the coaches is an full understanding of the impact of generational trauma on First Nations players both in terms of the hyper sensitivity this naturally engenders, and an awareness on the part of some First Nations players that comments and actions from coaches were performance, not racially motivated.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Wow. You just deleted a completely harmless post I made, and for what?
Because "We're all adults here" and something about "some crass s**t".

Caroline Wilson just wrote an aticle headed "Fresh Allegations ..." that was based on Sam's autobiography published in 2018. 2018!
I'm not sure I can remember an article headline more worthy of ridicule.
In fact, I would say her article headline is the definition of "some crass s**t."
She knows the Mitchell-Clarko story is in no way fresh but she presents it that way anyway - now that seems pretty unintelligent and insensitive to me.

I deleted a bunch of posts, not just yours.

Caro doesn’t write the headline, so it’s besides the point, as is carrying on about who wrote the article rather than talking about the contents of it.

 

[Billyc]

You might want to avoid repeated use of the term “hyper sensitivity” if you want to be taken seriously on this topic.

 

[Gaborone]

How about we don’t call it hypersensitivity, when the allegations are pretty yuck.

I'd be hypersensitive if my family had suffered the generational trauma that first nations people have experienced. But that doesn't change the fact that experiences colour our perspectives and that hypersensitivity exists, just as insensitiviity. If we can't name the problem we can't address or resolve it.

 

[HairyO]

While I have no issue with Hodge speaking positively about people who have had a large influence on his life, his comments are about as relevant to the current issues as when Sloane and Walker said the Adelaide camp was a great experience for them.

How do you know?

Only Aboriginal players were interviewed. Maybe it wasnt racism and was the same treatment for all and some Aboriginal players liked it, some didnt, some white players liked it, some didnt ?

Probably why we should wait until all the facts are out.

I dare say this earns me some scorn, wanting to know more before polishing my pitchfork.

 

[Kwality]

Not quite. Hodge's comments contextualise behaviours in a professional football club that has as its goal, premierships. Let's gets some things straight. Football clubs are only able to draft a certain number of players each year. If the player doesn't work out they can't go down to the local supermarket and pick up another. The pressure is on to help the player be successful. The treatment at Hawthorn accorded non First Nations players appears to be the same as that accorded to First Nations players - this includes having draftees stay with families or in selected accommodation. They receive the same amount of money (as draftees) and have the same opportunity. We're talking about a job and for a job this treatment is fair.

However, what appears to have been missing on the part of the coaches is an full understanding of the impact of generational trauma on First Nations players both in terms of the hyper sensitivity this naturally engenders, and an awareness on the part of some First Nations players that comments and actions from coaches were performance, not racially motivated.

and why Chance Bateman is relevant.

 

[tommyk72]

Not quite. Hodge's comments contextualise behaviours in a professional football club that has as its goal, premierships. Let's gets some things straight. Football clubs are only able to draft a certain number of players each year. If the player doesn't work out they can't go down to the local supermarket and pick up another. The pressure is on to help the player be successful. The treatment at Hawthorn accorded non First Nations players appears to be the same as that accorded to First Nations players - this includes having draftees stay with families or in selected accommodation. They receive the same amount of money (as draftees) and have the same opportunity. We're talking about a job and for a job this treatment is fair.

However, what appears to have been missing on the part of the coaches is an full understanding of the impact of generational trauma on First Nations players both in terms of the hyper sensitivity this naturally engenders, and an awareness on the part of some First Nations players that comments and actions from coaches were performance, not racially motivated.

I also think general knowledge/community awareness of these issues has progressed somewhat over the last decade. At the time, it’s entirely possible that Clarkson and co were - in their minds and the minds of others - doing the right thing in applying an equality lens. Today we come at it from an equity perspective, which has far more nuance.

Equity vs. Equality - 4 Real Examples from the Modern Workplace — Crescendo

Equity and equality are frequently confused with each other. Equality gives every individual access to the same resources and opportunities. Equity differs from equality in that it accounts for specific disadvantages and obstacles that certain groups or individuals may experience on the path

crescendowork.com

 

[A Cut Above]

We need to move on from Jeff as quickly as possible, and get new blood into the seat.

Not sure I want the next president tainted by association with this saga. Would prefer Kennett cleaned up the mess to give his successor a clean slate.

 

[Stratton24]

Awesome to see this response from Hodgey.
Love it.

On SM-G950F using BigFooty.com mobile app

He is desperate for Fagan to coach ASAP.

 

[Boston tiger]

That is the worst article she has ever written and that is saying something. The media applauded removing phones as a genius coach move. She has just copied and pasted straight out of Sam’s book in which he explains his relationship with Clarko. Does she think he would have come back to work as his assistant if he actually had any problem?

I thought it helped Clarko. Paints him as a hard nut no matter where you come from or who you are . Would have been worse if he bent over backwards to help in some family situations and not in others .

 

[2OLD 2SLOW]

I deleted a bunch of posts, not just yours.

Caro doesn’t write the headline, so it’s besides the point, as is carrying on about who wrote the article rather than talking about the contents of it.

No doubt Caro doesn't write the headline, but it's hardly beside the point.
She does write the rest of it, I presume? Here is the first paragraph of her article ...



Fresh allegations. Pretty sure those words are in the contents of the article - maybe just not the bit you want to discuss.

So back to the point I and others were making - a point that you have every right to dislike or disagree with but zero right to censor - Caroline Wilson has engaged in a shoddy bit of journalism by presenting old news as "fresh allegations." It was needless, self-serving and characteristic of that particular journalist (has anyone else sat through Footy Classified?).

And FYI, anyone with decently developed critical literacy skills will always be wary of author impartiality, sensationalism, inacurracy ... it is foolish to read an article and not consider who the author is, who they work for, what they have previously written or said, etc

 

[Bugs1977]

Exactly. Just a smear campaign run by Caro.

Common knowledge that players were asked to hand in their phones the night before that Sydney game. Yet Sam said he needed to stay in contact with Lyndall re the twins and was permitted to do so.

Caro desperate to throw mud at Clarko and bury him right now. She'd wanna be careful considering the lawyers he has lined up, locked and loaded.

I read a comment online that the reason behind asking the phones to be handed in was because players were checking their phones at halftime so they could brag about their SuperCoach scores. Can anyone confirm or is this BS?

 

[H00t]

Its called hard love & has helped many along the journey to get where you want to go.
IF you dont complete that journey to wherever you want, you will deal with consequences & if you want/need to lay blame, emotion will play a role.

“Hard love” breaks and destroys people.

It’s ok I’m isolating you from your family and support system. It’s just because I care about you(r footballing ability)

 

[killerspud]

Not quite. Hodge's comments contextualise behaviours in a professional football club that has as its goal, premierships. Let's gets some things straight. Football clubs are only able to draft a certain number of players each year. If the player doesn't work out they can't go down to the local supermarket and pick up another. The pressure is on to help the player be successful. The treatment at Hawthorn accorded non First Nations players appears to be the same as that accorded to First Nations players - this includes having draftees stay with families or in selected accommodation. They receive the same amount of money (as draftees) and have the same opportunity. We're talking about a job and for a job this treatment is fair.

However, what appears to have been missing on the part of the coaches is an full understanding of the impact of generational trauma on First Nations players both in terms of the hyper sensitivity this naturally engenders, and an awareness on the part of some First Nations players that comments and actions from coaches were performance, not racially motivated.

wasn't an indigenous player allegedly asked to terminate a child? Your statement holds true if non indigenous players like Hodge and Mitchell also were given that request. And if they had that doesn't absolve the club and the people responsible - its just as bad as this is really quite awful

 

[Mercy Seat]

Last year Clarkson’s manager leaked to her.
This may be more of the same, because this latest article helps paint Clarkson as just a hard task master, rather than racist.

Us hawk die hards who are heavily invested in this story and the outcomes can possibly draw a favourable stance with this narrative, but 95% of people are reading the headline and see “fresh allegations”. Ultimately public sentiment is highly weighted against him and this just adds to it.

In any case, caro has been absolutely savage on Clarko on this issue and is in very regular dialogue with the Riolis, essentially being their mouth piece. It would make no sense for her to be secretly advocating for Clarko despite all this.

 

[Billyc]

wasn't an indigenous player allegedly asked to terminate a child? Your statement holds true if non indigenous players like Hodge and Mitchell also were given that request. And if they had that doesn't absolve the club and the people responsible - its just as bad as this is really quite awful

Yes, let’s be real. Nobody - regardless of race - would “like” their employer pressuring them and their partner to terminate a pregnancy. It is not “hyper sensitive” to be aggrieved by that.

While predictable, the gaslighting type defences of “tough love” and “some players liked it” being used to diminish the seriousness of these allegations are more gutless than the “liar liar pants on fire” defences. At least the latter is a genuine defence. If the allegations are false, that’s a defence. But if the allegations are true, there is no possible justification for it, just because some other footballers thrived at the club and had excellent relationships with the accused

 

[tommyk72]

Can I clarify something - and apologies as I’ve lost threads across statements, stories and articles.

Was it the player who claimed first hand to have been pressured, or the wife who claims their husband was pressured?

Sorry if this seems to be pedantic, but I think I’m sensitive cases like this the accuracy really matters. Unfortunately it often gets lost.