News Hawthorn Racism Review - No player name speculation - opposition posters tread very carefully

[Strapping Young Lad]

Wrong. Hawks did what they had to do by the rules of the AFL.

Correct. For reference below, once the HFC had the report outlining serious allegations they were duty bound by the AFL’s protocol to hand over the report to the AFL integrity unit.

I will pin this post, as it seems to be a constant query.

 

[HairyO]

“Hard love” breaks and destroys people.

It’s ok I’m isolating you from your family and support system. It’s just because I care about you(r footballing ability)

So we dump the draft and players get selected only by their state?

Where do NT players go?

Bourke is in NSW but closer to Adelaide than Sydney.

Or are kids able to opt out of the draft if they claim they will miss home?

Or should they stick to local leagues if they dont want to risk being recruited elsewhere ? Or delay a year or 2 until they are older and more emotionally strong ?

 

[Gaborone]

wasn't an indigenous player allegedly asked to terminate a child? Your statement holds true if non indigenous players like Hodge and Mitchell also were given that request. And if they had that doesn't absolve the club and the people responsible - its just as bad as this is really quite awful

Is that what they were asked to do? There has been no right of reply so far for the accused. What about the player describing a 'problem' and being presented with the options? Is that being told to terminate? And was the girl friend there when what is alleged to have been said was being said? Or was that her interpretation of what was told to her?

 

[macdaddio]

I feel sorry for Sammy, because he’s just started a coaching career and he’s now been forced to rebuild the faith in the club and indigenous players and add to that his name has now been dragged into this saga.!
I honestly can’t see any end to this

 

[Stottzy]

“The Mitchell story further emphasises the disrespect toward and mistreatment of women by the club though. Horrible treatment of his wife, trying to isolate her from her husband and the father of their children during that time.”

In defense of Clarko though, if a player is willing to play an interstate game, rather than be with his wife while their twin infant is frequently being admitted into hospital, does he have to treat that player different when it comes to team rules etc? I know this is where people will say "this is where the control aspect comes in", but if the situation was that bad, then I can't see how Mitchell of all people would be manipulated into playing rather than being home.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

If you want to complain about moderation, take it up via PM with them.

There’s a site wide rule that states that threads are not the place to either discuss or complain about it.

 

[killerspud]

Is that what they were asked to do? There has been no right of reply so far for the accused. What about the player describing a 'problem' and being presented with the options? Is that being told to terminate? And was the girl friend there when what is alleged to have been said was being said? Or was that her interpretation of what was told to her?

No need to get all defensive no one is questioning your role in it - My comment was in response to your comment that everyone was treated equally. From what's been reported it doesn't sound like the friendly chat you make it out to be - one where the player was seeking council. And the
"her interpretation" thing doesn't look or sound right either. The "accused" have actually replied in statements denying the allegations so I would say they have had a right of reply. And will get further chances to clear their names. My point was also if that non indigenous players had been allegedly treated the same way then that's not a vindication. I had chosen not to get involved but these kind of posts don't help. Just my two cents - no doubt you'll give me some more free thoughts which is fine

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I'd be hypersensitive if my family had suffered the generational trauma that first nations people have experienced. But that doesn't change the fact that experiences colour our perspectives and that hypersensitivity exists, just as insensitiviity. If we can't name the problem we can't address or resolve it.

How about just dropping the word hyper.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Us hawk die hards who are heavily invested in this story and the outcomes can possibly draw a favourable stance with this narrative, but 95% of people are reading the headline and see “fresh allegations”. Ultimately public sentiment is highly weighted against him and this just adds to it.

In any case, caro has been absolutely savage on Clarko on this issue and is in very regular dialogue with the Riolis, essentially being their mouth piece. It would make no sense for her to be secretly advocating for Clarko despite all this.

I don’t think she’s secretly advocating for him. I think the story paints a picture of a hard-arse coach, and it quite likely could have been anyone directing her towards Sam’s book.

 

[Off The Couch]

Lmao - in just one statement we believe what hodge has to say about his experience with the club, but the black fellas whose story doesn’t paint quite the same picture and it’s “we need to hear both sides of the story”

 

[phlogiston]

Lmao - in just one statement we believe what hodge has to say about his experience with the club, but the black fellas whose story doesn’t paint quite the same picture and it’s “we need to hear both sides of the story”

I clicked "Sad" because you're bang on the money with this

 

[SJT76]

I do not like trial by media, and the truth is always more complex than headlines allow for, but based on what I’ve seen in the media so far, if the allegation is that the coaches engaged in racially motivated bullying/abusive conduct, their defence appears to be one or both of: 1. We did the same to everyone, and 2. It was misconstrued.

Both of these run into the issue of a lack of cultural sensitivity or awareness. This ties in closely to the issues Cyril raised, where I recall reading that Shannon requested cultural sensitivity training for Hawthorn staff multiple times to no avail. This reflects very poorly on the club leadership at the time.

I think Cyril’s comments/reaction need to be considered in light of this. A lot of people were quick to dismiss him as being too sensitive, but if he saw what was happening, or at least the impact what was happening was having on others, it is a lot easier to understand why we lost the best thing in football far too early.

 

[Messenger]

Hodge is getting an almighty dragging on social media for that post.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Hodge is getting an almighty dragging on social media for that post.

It’s a bit rough. He made no claim that the complaints weren’t justified.

It’s likely a damn if he did, damned if he didn’t scenario. I’d think Clarkson and Fagan would likely appreciate the sentiment from their former players, in the face of the accusations, as little as it means in the whole scheme of things.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Lmao - in just one statement we believe what hodge has to say about his experience with the club, but the black fellas whose story doesn’t paint quite the same picture and it’s “we need to hear both sides of the story”

 

[H00t]

So we dump the draft and players get selected only by their state?

Where do NT players go?

Bourke is in NSW but closer to Adelaide than Sydney.

Or are kids able to opt out of the draft if they claim they will miss home?

Or should they stick to local leagues if they dont want to risk being recruited elsewhere ? Or delay a year or 2 until they are older and more emotionally strong ?

That’s a ridiculous leap. Players are going to have to move to play footy.

Them moving isn’t the problem. It’s the insane isolation tactics our coaches appear to have been using.

 

[H00t]

Lmao - in just one statement we believe what hodge has to say about his experience with the club, but the black fellas whose story doesn’t paint quite the same picture and it’s “we need to hear both sides of the story”

To make it worse Hodge has said in previous statements that the club told him to stay away from his friends and family in Colac because of his diet and it not being the best for him.

So it wouldn’t be out of character for what has been alleged.

Even in Hodge’s latest statement he mentions it always comes from a place a “love” not that he believes Clarko couldn’t do this.

 

[Fleabane]

Lmao - in just one statement we believe what hodge has to say about his experience with the club, but the black fellas whose story doesn’t paint quite the same picture and it’s “we need to hear both sides of the story”

Nah. Difference is Hodge is just saying positive stuff about his own experience, what Clarkson and Fagan especially have meant to him. There are no details or actual events for anyone to dispute. I mean who's going to present the other side of Hodge's story? His wife, closest mate? Or check with Clarkson and Fagan that they back up his positive feelings about what they've done for him?
It's when you accuse someone of serious wrongdoing that it's only fair to hear the other side of the story. Doesn't mean the accusers are wrong, at all, just make sure it's a fair process.

 

[Dipper Here]

No doubt Caro doesn't write the headline, but it's hardly beside the point.
She does write the rest of it, I presume? Here is the first paragraph of her article ...

View attachment 1523292

Fresh allegations. Pretty sure those words are in the contents of the article - maybe just not the bit you want to discuss.

So back to the point I and others were making - a point that you have every right to dislike or disagree with but zero right to censor - Caroline Wilson has engaged in a shoddy bit of journalism by presenting old news as "fresh allegations." It was needless, self-serving and characteristic of that particular journalist (has anyone else sat through Footy Classified?).

And FYI, anyone with decently developed critical literacy skills will always be wary of author impartiality, sensationalism, inacurracy ... it is foolish to read an article and not consider who the author is, who they work for, what they have previously written or said, etc

Well said.

 

[Restricted Free Agent]

Adam Briggs hits the nail on the head here

 

[Sixpence]

Lmao - in just one statement we believe what hodge has to say about his experience with the club, but the black fellas whose story doesn’t paint quite the same picture and it’s “we need to hear both sides of the story”

Not sure what your issue is here? If you read a positive review you don't go "Well, I want to hear what the restaurant has to say". The "both sides" argument only comes after a negative comment.

Hodge's comments weren't a counter argument to the accusations either. They were just his experiences. It's not a case of believing one over the other.

 

[KermitJagger]

Adam Briggs hits the nail on the head here

I disagree. Hodge has come out and said how awful he thought that treatment was. I don't think Hodge posting that was altogether too smart or helpful, but I don't think Briggs' response is helpful either.

That's twitter though, why be helpful when you can be intentionally inflammatory.

 

[Sixpence]

Adam Briggs hits the nail on the head here

Anyone who read Hodge's comments and thought it read "but this white guy had a good time with his white mates”, is a ****ing moron.

 

[Restricted Free Agent]

Anyone who read Hodge's comments and thought it read "but this white guy had a good time with his white mates”, is a ******* moron.

I agree that's clearly an inflammatory statement. But I think what Hodge said is incredibly tone deaf. I understand what he's try to do, but to completely gloss over all the allegations and to not offer support to the players he was the captain of who faced this alleged abuse just doesn't help in the slightest imo

 

[HairyO]

That’s a ridiculous leap. Players are going to have to move to play footy.

Them moving isn’t the problem. It’s the insane isolation tactics our coaches appear to have been using.

Isolation? The standard approach is to have players move in with coaches or member families or with other players.

 

[Sixpence]

I agree that's clearly an inflammatory statement. But I think what Hodge said is incredibly tone deaf. I understand what he's try to do, but to completely gloss over all the allegations and to not offer support to the players he was the captain of who faced this alleged abuse just doesn't help in the slightest imo

It's easy to judge from our view on the couch, but put yourself in Hodge's shoes. These are very serious allegations (which he does not "gloss over" nor dismiss) leveled at people who are pretty close to him. Would you not do the same?