News Hawthorn Racism Review - No player name speculation - opposition posters tread very carefully

[Strapping Young Lad]

Wrong. Hawks did what they had to do by the rules of the AFL.

Correct. For reference below, once the HFC had the report outlining serious allegations they were duty bound by the AFL’s protocol to hand over the report to the AFL integrity unit.

I will pin this post, as it seems to be a constant query.

 

[Bugs1977]

And then he gave very public support to the people accused of the abuse

You still didn't answer my question/s

 

[Gralin]

You still didn't answer my question/s

No I didn't

 

[tommyk72]

You're entitled to your view on this, I don't agree with it though.

Supporting both sides in this sort of situation is kinda bullshit though, but I don't see him supporting his former teammates with this statement

And this is the problem with the debate. It is absolutely possible to fully support the indigenous players in this scenario AND still see a more nuanced side of things than Clarko and Fagan are the devil and must burn. We need to move beyond the kind of bullshit statements your making to deal with these exceptionally complex issues.

 

[Gralin]

And this is the problem with the debate. It is absolutely possible to fully support the indigenous players in this scenario AND still see a more nuanced side of things than Clarko and Fagan are the devil and must burn. We need to move beyond the kind of bullshit statements your making to deal with these exceptionally complex issues.

Supporting both sides in an abusive situation is not supporting the victims of abuse is it.

 

[MasterSamurai]

So let me get this right in that what your'e saying is that Hodge a) has chosen a side b) hasn't shown support to the accusers? How do you know this and how do you know that he hasn't shown support to all parties? To be fair without knowing exactly who the accusers are it is actually impossible for him to show any support for them outside of what he has done already (see below).

So yeah I disagree with you that he has to choose a side. The only thing I feel he could've done differently was not to say / do nothing at all but if you read a lot of online comments a lot of them are saying what took him so long. He's now copping it from all sides.



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Stop it bugs! Luke Hodge and people who understand his side of things are pretty much borderline racist!! Haven't you heard?

 

[HairyO]

Supporting both sides in an abusive situation is not supporting the victims of abuse is it.

So Luke Hodge is not just racist he is supporting abusers.

 

[Gralin]

So Luke Hodge is not just racist he is supporting abusers.

Sure let's go with that so you can get really offended

 

[HairyO]

Sure let's go with that so you can get really offended

They are your words Im querying. I am not at all offended.

Nor surprised.

 

[tommyk72]

Supporting both sides in an abusive situation is not supporting the victims of abuse is it.

I was considering writing a more detailed post in response, but it's clear you're being reductionist and polemic, so I don't think it's worth it.

 

[Messenger]

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Inevitable.

 

[Billyc]

Simple question RE Hodge: how do you reckon the players and their families felt about his statement of support for Clarkson and Fagan?

He’s entitled to make that statement and entitled to be criticised for it, which he acknowledged, and which he has been

 

[Bruno Oresar]

Inevitable.

And a good thing. Let an independent arbitrator sort this mess out. Much better than kangaroo courts where the people, drip fed largely by media, draw their final conclusions with limited or partial facts.

As a community we often rush to judgement. We apply the recently established principle of ‘I hear you, I see you, I believe you’. We often seem reticent to apply the principle of innocent until proven guilty.

I absolutely support complainants - they are often proven to be victims. They deserve the right to make their claims, obtain support from investigators, and receive natural justice. They shouldn’t be disbelieved and dismissed out of hand (which was prevalent and exposed in the recent Royal Commision into the Church). But belief is a problematic word, especially when you only have partial versions.

Take a deep breath. Re read what I have just written. I have been docile, and my remarks should not be viewed as controversial, yet people will almost inevitably object to the notion of ‘support’ as opposed to ‘belief’, or innocence until guilt is established.

Try and let fair work/work cover do it’s job before leaping to conclusions either way. Let’s all let fair process take place before jumping on each other for leaning to one side or another. It’s okay, probably preferable, that people on this forum remain open to competing versions of events. Very little has been established as fact. Let’s engage the concepts of rationality and patience before applying judgement.

 

[threesixpio]

And a good thing. Let an independent arbitrator sort this mess out. Much better than kangaroo courts where the people, drip fed largely by media, draw their final conclusions with limited or partial facts.

As a community we often rush to judgement. We apply the recently established principle of ‘I hear you, I see you, I believe you’. We often seem reticent to apply the principle of innocent until proven guilty.

I absolutely support complainants - they are often proven to be victims. They deserve the right to make their claims, obtain support from investigators, and receive natural justice. They shouldn’t be disbelieved and dismissed out of hand (which was prevalent and exposed in the recent Royal Commision into the Church). But belief is a problematic word, especially when you only have partial versions.

Take a deep breath. Re read what I have just written. I have been docile, and my remarks should not be viewed as controversial, yet people will almost inevitably object to the notion of ‘support’ as opposed to ‘belief’, or innocence until guilt is established.

Try and let fair work/work cover do it’s job before leaping to conclusions either way. Let’s all let fair process take place before jumping on each other for leaning to one side or another. It’s okay, probably preferable, that people on this forum remain open to competing versions of events. Very little has been established as fact. Let’s engage the concepts of rationality and patience before applying judgement.

I’m quite worried for Hawthorn here

 

[Jables]

I think this is the kind of situation where people have become very polarised in recent years, but a simple statement of support for a friend is not an indictment of themselves, and when you attack other people over it, it's a good time to remember one basic thing. None of us know these people. If anything should've reminded us of this, it's this entire incident.

On the other hand we've always been pretty sure Kennett is a disgrace and we tolerated him for years when we shouldn't have, so I don't know why we can't last until we find a resolution. “A former Premier… Henry Bolte said to me before I became Premier, ‘Son, never hold an enquiry unless you know the result first. There’s a lot of merit in that. As a result, I only had one enquiry in the 7-8 years I was Premier.” Hoo boy, we could not have a better person to lead us through this mess.

 

[MacMace]

Interesting foreward in Mitch's book written by Clarkson -

" 'Forged by adversity’ was a term we had used at the Hawthorn Football Club to reflect the sacrifice and discipline required to be elite in a chosen field. Coined as a key point of reference for those in the US Navy SEALs, it involved individuals getting the very best out of themselves, and then committing to a bigger cause beyond self – that of the protection of a community, a country, or a civilisation. We admired the philosophical principles that it embraced, and found some parallels to what we were trying to achieve chasing silverware in the AFL"

And

"That mindset brought with it some challenges. Early in our time at Hawthorn, Mitch was one of several who were challenged with the notion of ‘sacrificing the “me” for the “we”’, such was his relentless drive. He wanted team success desperately, and so did our club given its dire performance both on and off the field in its previous ten years. But neither Mitch nor many other players really knew what it took to sacrifice for the greater cause."

While I'll be waiting for the official investigation to pass judgement. This really does acknowledge the very high standards and personal sacrifices the club placed on -all- players in the pursuit of success.

Looking at our success, it's clear that some players (regardless if race, religion, etc) thrived in this type of environment, while others did not.

On moto g(9) plus using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[HairyO]

I’m quite worried for Hawthorn here

WorkSafe will take longer than the AFL so it will be a mess no matter what the AFL find, assuming the AFL can even get started.

Not sure what statutory powers WorkSafe has over someone in another state and others no longer at the club for things which happened up to 10 years ago as well.

Also interesting to see if they look in to the AFLPA who are meant to be protecting the wellbeing of the players as well as the club.

 

[hardway]

Work safe would find issues with the Kokoda training camps as well. Not easy to be elite.

 

[Linda CRS]

Why must it be about taking sides?

He shared his own experience.

If it turns out that the allegations are 100% correct in how they've been explained then I'm sure sure Luke will be disappointed, shocked and will likely release another statement explaining as such.

For now, his simply stated his honest feelings. And he hasn't said 'I believe these allegations are false'.

100%, and if everyone could get off their high horse for one moment you might pause to realise he’s come out to speak about his own experience due to Caros “fresh allegations”statement. If everyone got out of the racism or not corners and no shit Kennets a nearly 80 year old man views who know on could be bothered voting out you’d appreciate Hodges comments are a pointed response. Think about who’s mentioned in the article and then think who might have backgrounded Wilson. This is as bitter as it comes. Go screw the racism calls, pathetic.

 

[Gralin]

I was considering writing a more detailed post in response, but it's clear you're being reductionist and polemic, so I don't think it's worth it.

I'm saying the statements that are coming out in support of Clarkson, Fagan and Burt from other people in the industry aren't happening in a vacuum, and while you may just see this as them supporting friends, the people that have alleged abuse and those that support them will see it as either not believe them, dismissing it as not important, or knowingly trying to help cover it up.

 

[Dragz]

What do you expect someone like Hodge to say?

“Without knowing who was affected or their intimate experiences, I can say my lived experiences with the people these allegations have been levelled against does not reflect theirs but I hope for everyone’s sakes that all involved are getting the support they need from the club and other organisations”

Someone will take offence to something like that too.

These allegations are horrendous and those people who raised their truths need all the support they can get, but having this play out in the public eye at the moment, must be detrimental to their mental health.

 

[Linda CRS]

I'm saying the statements that are coming out in support of Clarkson, Fagan and Burt from other people in the industry aren't happening in a vacuum, and while you may just see this as them supporting friends, the people that have alleged abuse and those that support them will see it as either not believe them, dismissing it as not important, or knowingly trying to help cover it up.

If they are worried about friendship support they are in for a torrid few months. Burt has low level legal, everyone else inc Hawthorn have big guns so expect the interrogation of credible accounts, personal history inc any jail time to be just a couple of topics that drip out in the next 2 to 3 months. These are heinous accusations and if correct crimes so expect the defence to be without fear.

 

[Suntory Boss Coffee]

I'm as left as it goes but that ABC headline about Kennett is ridic

 

[TylerDurden]

Massive $$ if found guilty.

 

[TylerDurden]

Would the AFL be liable for any Worksafe fine?
Asking a lawyer in here?