News Hawthorn Racism Review - No player name speculation - opposition posters tread very carefully

[Strapping Young Lad]

Wrong. Hawks did what they had to do by the rules of the AFL.

Correct. For reference below, once the HFC had the report outlining serious allegations they were duty bound by the AFL’s protocol to hand over the report to the AFL integrity unit.

I will pin this post, as it seems to be a constant query.

 

[H00t]

Do they really want to be anonymous for the right reason?

I questioned it as ABC has reported it was the families and players that contacted them directly.

If these players went to ABC and kept individual names out of the press the reports would seem at least genuine.

Or better yet, keep the press out until settled in mediation or in court.

There was the report done. Which the hawks handed to the AFL and the AFL have just sat on.

It was only the ABC getting involved that has brought this to the publics attention. They have just told their story. People were going to be named. Just because they are popular people doesn’t they aren’t “genuine” or they aren’t “anonymous for the right reasons”.

Plus the accusers want to be heard there was a news article where they have stated they would like to go in front of a independent tribunal. They want to be heard but they don’t trust the AFL. I can’t say I blame them.

 

[CaptainWorpedo]

There was the report done. Which the hawks handed to the AFL and the AFL have just sat on.

It was only the ABC getting involved that has brought this to the publics attention. They have just told their story. People were going to be named. Just because they are popular people doesn’t they aren’t “genuine” or they aren’t “anonymous for the right reasons”.

Plus the accusers want to be heard there was a news article where they have stated they would like to go in front of a independent tribunal. They want to be heard but they don’t trust the AFL. I can’t say I blame them.

There is no accountability, you can not have your cake and eat it as well.

You want to be anonymous fine, work through your complaint with the club, fair work and the courts.

As soon as you go to the press and name individuals, you have lost the right to be anonynous.

I believe the accused has the right to face there accusers in court now.

I am all for both parties being heard and given equal rights to privacy and process.

I believe both parties are telling there truth. It should not be trial by media, an the final findings should be that of court.

Once the court makes that finding, then punishment needs to be addressed and needs to be as harsh as the crime.

 

[H00t]

There is no accountability, you can not have your cake and eat it as well.

You want to be anonymous fine, work through your complaint with the club, fair work and the courts.

As soon as you go to the press and name individuals, you have lost the right to be anonynous.

I believe the accused has the right to face there accusers in court now.

I am all for both parties being heard and given equal rights to privacy and process.

I believe both parties are telling there truth. It should not be trial by media, an the final findings should be that of court.

Once the court makes that finding, then punishment needs to be addressed and needs to be as harsh as the crime.

Court seems a high bar to clear? An action can horrible yet not illegal.

The media is the one who often brings stories of abuse/ racism to light and that leads to court/justice and not the other way around. Even then getting courtroom justice can still be impossible.

Especially when the accused are as influential and powerful as Clarko and Fagan are.

They took the only available option to them especially when the AFL seemed more than happy to sit on the report

 

[CaptainWorpedo]

Court seems a high bar to clear? An action can horrible yet not illegal.

The media is the one who often brings stories of abuse/ racism to light and that leads to court/justice and not the other way around. Even then getting courtroom justice can still be impossible.

Especially when the accused are as influential and powerful as Clarko and Fagan are.

They took the only available option to them especially when the AFL seemed more than happy to sit on the report

It is the best legal avenue we have available. Most cases are sent to court ordered mediation, before a court case is considered.

Trial by media and potential slander is better? Two wrongs do not make it right.

Clarko and Fagan believe they are innocent! I feel they will sue given the way the players have gone about it. The players names will be released at the very least to those involved in the case via court.

If the players had gone to mediation and resolved this matter confidentially i feel this would of had a much better outcome for all.

As it stands everyone loses, even if they win the case. All high profile names most likely will never work again in there fields of choice again.

 

[CaptainWorpedo]

If the Pies and Bombers can survive there history, so can we as a team.

 

[HairyO]

It is the best legal avenue we have available. Most cases are sent to court ordered mediation, before a court case is considered.

Trial by media and potential slander is better? Two wrongs do not make it right.

Clarko and Fagan believe they are innocent! I feel they will sue given the way the players have gone about it. The players names will be released at the very least to those involved in case via court.

If the players had gone to mediation and resolved this matter confidentially i feel this would of had a much better outcome for all.

As it stands everyone loses, even if they win the case. All high profile names and most will never work again in there fields of choice.

The problem is the players knew the report went to Hawthorn and then for a couple of weeks nothing happened, so they felt the need to get the media involved.

If the AFL had acted quickly and spoken with Egan and reached out to the players then the entire messy media part of this could have been avoided and instead mediation between players and coaches could have happened.

The report would have then just been the start of the process, rather than hitting the media and having a huge number of people decide its 100% true (I bet many on here hadnt even reached the end of the ABC article before deciding they 100% believed everything).

 

[Brishawk]

Has anyone seen varsity blues? That movie illustrates how an abusive and controlling coach can thrive as a winner. The winning causes players to accept the abuse and they fear to challenge the coach. The only one willing to challenge the legend of bud Kilmer is a player who has absolutely nothing at stake in terms of future football career. Everyone else is too scared to say anything or say no to bud Kilmer.

Not suggesting Clarkson is bud Kilmer but the fear of consequence is a powerful disincentive to speak out. I can only imagine that the fear of consequences still remains. It’s no surprise this has only emerged under the premise of anonymity and once those players are no longer at the club.

 

[CaptainWorpedo]

The problem is the players knew the report went to Hawthorn and then for a couple of weeks nothing happened, so they felt the need to get the media involved.

If the AFL had acted quickly and spoken with Egan and reached out to the players then the entire messy media part of this could have been avoided and instead mediation between players and coaches could have happened.

The report would have then just been the start of the process, rather than hitting the media and having a huge number of people decide its 100% true (I bet many on here hadnt even reached the end of the ABC article before deciding they 100% believed everything).

Better choices where available.
Fair work and legal aid.
Nothing ever happens over night.

 

[deanc]

Yes Luke's experience as a white #1 draft pick is really relevant to how the Indigenous players were treated at the club.

Respectfully Gralin - feel free to compile a comparative list of related MSM headlines and articles defaming the accused who have yet been given their right of reply to the allegations VS a few twitter posts supporting them..? I'm not a daily media watcher but would guess thus far this would about 30 to 3...?
Not happy with Hodge's brief statement sharing his actual footy/life experience with the 'accused' because apparently it's just 'a white man supporting white men' - I look forward to your reaction if Chance Bateman shares his time with the club and recollections of Clarko...

Imploring your 'Australia is a cesspool of racism' rhetoric and expecting everyone else to adhere to this, while refuting others offering considered more balanced views highlights the problem with moral outrage whereas people then impose themselves on others based on nothing more than their opinion and when challenged fill in the blanks with thier bias.

Frankly there is some odd dismissive behavior in here from some moderators, which in my view is not conducive to productive or respectful discussion...

 

[H00t]

It is the best legal avenue we have available. Most cases are sent to court ordered mediation, before a court case is considered.

Trial by media and potential slander is better? Two wrongs do not make it right.

Clarko and Fagan believe they are innocent! I feel they will sue given the way the players have gone about it. The players names will be released at the very least to those involved in the case via court.

If the players had gone to mediation and resolved this matter confidentially i feel this would of had a much better outcome for all.

As it stands everyone loses, even if they win the case. All high profile names most likely will never work again in there fields of choice again.

Without media intervention all this would end up with is a payment from Clarko, Fagan and Burt to the accusers while never admitting to anything and we wouldn’t hear anything as it would all be sealed up.

Whether they did anything or not (odds are they did). They would be free to continue on causing the same amount of hurt.

All three will find jobs/ get payments. I wouldn’t be worrying about their future. They will be fine.

 

[HairyO]

Respectfully Gralin - feel free to compile a comparative list of related MSM headlines and articles defaming the accused who have yet been given the right of reply to the allegations VS a few twitter posts supporting them..? I'm not a daily media watcher but would guess thus far this would about 30 to 3...?
Not happy with Hodge's brief statement sharing his actual footy/life experience with the 'accused' because apparently it's just 'a white man supporting white men' - I look forward to your reaction if Chance Bateman shares his time with the club and recollections of Clarko...

Imploring your 'Australia is a cesspool of racism' rhetoric and expecting everyone else to adhere to this, while refuting others offering considered more balanced views highlights the problem with moral outrage whereas people then impose themselves on others based on nothing more than their opinion and when challenged fill in the blanks with thier bias.

Frankly there is some odd dismissive behavior in here from some moderators, which in my view is not conducive to productive or respectful discussion...

People dont want respectful discussion. They want everyone to see things their way which is why they say things like "if you question the First Nations Peoples accusers youre racist, if you think the accused should have a right to reply youre saying the accusers lied so youre racist".

The respectful discussion is their least worst option.

 

[Brishawk]

It is the best legal avenue we have available. Most cases are sent to court ordered mediation, before a court case is considered.

Trial by media and potential slander is better? Two wrongs do not make it right.

Clarko and Fagan believe they are innocent! I feel they will sue given the way the players have gone about it. The players names will be released at the very least to those involved in the case via court.

If the players had gone to mediation and resolved this matter confidentially i feel this would of had a much better outcome for all.

As it stands everyone loses, even if they win the case. All high profile names most likely will never work again in there fields of choice again.

If they sue, the defence will roll out every past player that has been negatively impacted by their tough and controlling approach to player management. They absolutely don’t want this. The defamation threat is just there to cool the media.

 

[Cheersquad71]

Man with golliwog collection says nothing to see now. Is the club really so cloth eared and complacent that it thinks hiding behind “we’re culturally safe now” resembles a constructive, proactive approach?

 

[Roger Rogerson]

Respectfully Gralin - feel free to compile a comparative list of related MSM headlines and articles defaming the accused who have yet been given the right of reply to the allegations VS a few twitter posts supporting them..? I'm not a daily media watcher but would guess thus far this would about 30 to 3...?
Not happy with Hodge's brief statement sharing his actual footy/life experience with the 'accused' because apparently it's just 'a white man supporting white men' - I look forward to your reaction if Chance Bateman shares his time with the club and recollections of Clarko...

Imploring your 'Australia is a cesspool of racism' rhetoric and expecting everyone else to adhere to this, while refuting others offering considered more balanced views highlights the problem with moral outrage whereas people then impose themselves on others based on nothing more than their opinion and when challenged fill in the blanks with thier bias.

Frankly there is some odd dismissive behavior in here from some moderators, which in my view is not conducive to productive or respectful discussion...

Well said I've got the same beef. It's poor form.

 

[Gralin]

Respectfully Gralin - feel free to compile a comparative list of related MSM headlines and articles defaming the accused who have yet been given their right of reply to the allegations VS a few twitter posts supporting them..? I'm not a daily media watcher but would guess thus far this would about 30 to 3...?
Not happy with Hodge's brief statement sharing his actual footy/life experience with the 'accused' because apparently it's just 'a white man supporting white men' - I look forward to your reaction if Chance Bateman shares his time with the club and recollections of Clarko...

Imploring your 'Australia is a cesspool of racism' rhetoric and expecting everyone else to adhere to this, while refuting others offering considered more balanced views highlights the problem with moral outrage whereas people then impose themselves on others based on nothing more than their opinion and when challenged fill in the blanks with thier bias.

Frankly there is some odd dismissive behavior in here from some moderators, which in my view is not conducive to productive or respectful discussion...

Firstly why are you still talking about right of reply like they haven't had ample opportunity to do so and have in fact chosen not to.

Secondly Bateman talking about his time at the club would be more relevant in the context of how Indigenous players were treated than Hodge would, that's not hard to work out.

Much like Rioli spoke out earlier but people aren't seeing a pattern when 4 different Indigenous families have had issues with their time at the club.

 

[HairyO]

Firstly why are you still talking about right of reply like they haven't had ample opportunity to do so and have in fact chosen not to.

Secondly Bateman talking about his time at the club would be more relevant in the context of how Indigenous players were treated than Hodge would, that's not hard to work out.

Much like Rioli spoke out earlier but people aren't seeing a pattern when 4 different Indigenous families have had issues with their time at the club.

So youre ok with Fagan and Clarko responding publicly to the claims by naming the players and going in to detail the events surrounding the claims including personal discussions they had with the players?

Because that is what their response will be. Details on being asked for help and discussing options and what the players had agreed to.

Youre still making this about racism. Do you think Clarko and Fagan only did these things to Aboriginal players? They treated other players from other backgrounds differently?

If 14 non indigenous families had issues what then ?

How many sentences in to the ABC report were you 100% sure it was all true? 3 sentences? Or they already had you with just the headline ?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Simple question RE Hodge: how do you reckon the players and their families felt about his statement of support for Clarkson and Fagan?

He’s entitled to make that statement and entitled to be criticised for it, which he acknowledged, and which he has been

He’s getting absolutely smashed around the head for it. Has had to turn comments off.

 

[TylerDurden]

He’s getting absolutely smashed around the head for it. Has had to turn comments off.

Yep. He got schooled.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Yep. He got schooled.

He's getting some really nasty shit thrown at him now too. Damned if he says nothing and now damned that he did.

 

[CHUBBSS]

He's getting some really nasty s**t thrown at him now too. Damned if he says nothing and now damned that he did.

Could see it coming a mile away, and his now made himself one of the only voices to get involved, seems a fairly reactionary statement and the dust hasn’t even settled. Bizarre tbh

 

[Flag08]

Yes Luke's experience as a white #1 draft pick is really relevant to how the Indigenous players were treated at the club.

I think Luke might have had some sort of leadership role at the club iirc….so yes, his observations are highly relevant, so are the recollections of the other 17 indigenous blokes who had no issues..

 

[Flukey!]

I love how Twitter is the go-to-source of reference here.

It's as if some random post from someone nobody has ever heard of before suddenly resolves an argument.

Twitter is the last place you go for rational debate and discussion.

 

[TylerDurden]

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/news/hawthorn-racism-review-worksafe-victoria-investigating-the-hawks-over-its-alleged-treatment-of-first-nations-players/news-story/2d3a8a00191df4a78b48822203f2b26b

 

[NineteenSixtyNine]

What a mess. The AFL (employer) should be given the opportunity to investigate the claims before Worksafe, not that I know what actual law has been broken.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

What a mess. The AFL (employer) should be given the opportunity to investigate the claims before Worksafe, not that I know what actual law has been broken.

**** the AFL.
That's a very strong chance as to why this thing got leaked in the first place, because they were going to sit on it and do nothing.

I'd rather worksafe come in from an independant point of view and get to the bottom of what actually took place.