News Hawthorn Racism Review - No player name speculation - opposition posters tread very carefully

[Strapping Young Lad]

Wrong. Hawks did what they had to do by the rules of the AFL.

Correct. For reference below, once the HFC had the report outlining serious allegations they were duty bound by the AFL’s protocol to hand over the report to the AFL integrity unit.

I will pin this post, as it seems to be a constant query.

 

[Rhayader]

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/...t/news-story/64899fe510dfe572a9d435dea8b15267
Hawks could face fines, lose draft picks in racism probe
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/...t/news-story/64899fe510dfe572a9d435dea8b15267

 

[TheFourPillars]

I understand the fines and I am prepared for a whack there, but I don't understand losing draft picks. It doesn't make sense. It was a governing / admin issue to do with the coaches and admin removing draft picks for something that happened 10 years ago doesn't make any sense for the current list when all the ppl involved are currently not involved with the club

 

[TylerDurden]

Losing picks. Lol Ralphy.

 

[Suntory Boss Coffee]

Losing picks. Lol Ralphy.

He is putting that out there so the idea is in the domain so the media can push for it. Like he does with the tribunal shit, says they're guilty and talks punishment so public opinion expects it. Then no matter if punishment more or less severe, they can write more articles about how it was not enough or too much.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

I understand the fines and I am prepared for a whack there, but I don't understand losing draft picks. It doesn't make sense. It was a governing / admin issue to do with the coaches and admin removing draft picks for something that happened 10 years ago doesn't make any sense for the current list when all the ppl involved are currently not involved with the club

Fines/payouts will be a likely outcome I agree.

Can't see how losing draft picks is in the table though. In the past that punishment has been for acts of cheating/gaming the system (Carlton for salary cap rorting, Demons for tanking, Bombers for peptides, etc) and these allegations against the Hawks aren't along these lines.

Also those other acts were pretty black and white in terms of guilt with solid evidence (lab records of what players got injected with, bank account details showing shady player payments, etc) whereas these racism allegations are much more nuanced with little hard evidence and let's not forget the three accused are still vehemently denying they actually took place.

Also the Hawks were the ones who initiated the investigation and passed the findings into the AFL.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

LOL, the players themselves want this to not be a Hawthorn only thing, and have told the AFL that they’ll only participate if the AFL look in their own backyard and also ask the question of other clubs….but Hawthorn will get fined and draft penalties?

 

[Linda CRS]

There is so much gray now I don't know what to think (and I know a lot more about the Ian and Amy situation but can't discuss it here).

As someone very informed about the Amy and Ian story, if I'm confused about everything, then I imagine this is exactly the result the AFL want so that they can sweep things under the rug.

Im well informed too but I seriously doubt the afl want it simply washed away. As a club we should and will pay due to being inept. Our incoming president, board and ceo thought they would send it down the road to 3 ex coaching staff, nothing to see here we are the good guys. Only Kennetts political nouse sensing the mood changed the course and to his short term credit owned the issue on behalf of all involved. Jeff then said at PCM any current employees if you have a problem go to the ceo…or someone….Yep that’s what every racially, sexually or emotionally vilified employee does, that gets you a positive outcome? Don’t have a structure! Quite obviously the lack of hr governance the board oversaw in 12,13,14, 15 still exists in 22. It’s a disgrace and the fact we are not holding current and past board members to account says it all. This is our clubs continuing failure.

 

[Lickmesocks]

Put down the glass pipe immediately Ralphy. Loss of draft picks….

 

[Rob R]

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/...t/news-story/64899fe510dfe572a9d435dea8b15267
Hawks could face fines, lose draft picks in racism probeView attachment 1550186
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/...t/news-story/64899fe510dfe572a9d435dea8b15267

Three weeks till the draft and people losing interest in this story. Must come up with a new angle or journos might have to do some work to find actual stories.

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[TylerDurden]

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Asked about the prospect of Hawthorn settling with the players and their families, Nankivell said: “I think getting in a room and talking to people, one another, and talking to those who are making complaints and those who are being complained against is an eminently sensible idea and to the extent that could lead to outcomes, that’s probably, that’s the intention.”

Mediation remains an option for the families, all thus far having rejected the advances by Hawthorn, who could face “conduct unbecoming” charges - as could Clarkson and Fagan - under the AFL’s rules, and potential penalties. Clarkson and Fagan and Burt have rejected the allegations and have committed to speaking to the AFL probe.

What’s the going rate for conduct unbecoming in a historical sense, these days?

 

[arupist]

Asked about the prospect of Hawthorn settling with the players and their families, Nankivell said: “I think getting in a room and talking to people, one another, and talking to those who are making complaints and those who are being complained against is an eminently sensible idea and to the extent that could lead to outcomes, that’s probably, that’s the intention.”

Mediation remains an option for the families, all thus far having rejected the advances by Hawthorn, who could face “conduct unbecoming” charges - as could Clarkson and Fagan - under the AFL’s rules, and potential penalties. Clarkson and Fagan and Burt have rejected the allegations and have committed to speaking to the AFL probe.

What’s the going rate for conduct unbecoming in a historical sense, these days?

Dishonorable discharge.

 

[brad sue well]

Do we assume Newbold is part of the AFL investigation?

Is the email exchange between Newbold and Amy the only non-verbal reference?

 

[Mojo]

I'm a bit lost tracking this story now. First Nation families want reform and retribution but aren't willing to participate in the AFL's investigation or private mediation with the HFC to further their cause?

Is that the gist of it?

 

[brad sue well]

I'm a bit lost tracking this story now. First Nation families want reform and retribution but aren't willing to participate in the AFL's investigation or private mediation with the HFC to further their cause?

Is that the gist of it?

Yes. Unwilling as deemed culturally unsafe and afl needing to clearly document future changes to practice/policy.

 

[Crankyhawk]

LOL, the players themselves want this to not be a Hawthorn only thing, and have told the AFL that they’ll only participate if the AFL look in their own backyard and also ask the question of other clubs….but Hawthorn will get fined and draft penalties?

It’s media generated - specifically supporters of Geelong, Richmond and Essendon who dominate the footy media

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I'm a bit lost tracking this story now. First Nation families want reform and retribution but aren't willing to participate in the AFL's investigation or private mediation with the HFC to further their cause?

Is that the gist of it?

The families want the AFL to own this thing, and look in their own backyard, and other clubs, not just Hawthorn’s.

The AFL are trying to keep this thing as closed as possible and limit the damage, while the First Nations family want to rip the bandaid off.

 

[brad sue well]

The Age “…First Nations families about the independence of the AFL-led investigation, the panel now has its own legal team from Strongman and Crouch.”

Can the lawyers please explain this? Just implied further distance of the AFL from their investigation?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

 

[flinchfree]

Thank **** the AFL got that right.
Simply no way forward for the families to start to heal or the game be considered functional for our indigenous players without getting through this bloodied knees and all.
Amazing how difficult some believe saying sorry to be and to be seen as earnest in the desire to not continue inflicting pain.
Seriously, it's mind bending.

I live here in the USA, and it's same the stupid effing shite.
Like you lose some part of your inalienable right to be authentically you if being a dick and a bigot/racist/misogynist is taken from your civil liberties.

What a ****ing world we live in.

 

[Off The Couch]

Thank * the AFL got that right.
Simply no way forward for the families to start to heal or the game be considered functional for our indigenous players without getting through this bloodied knees and all.
Amazing how difficult some believe saying sorry to be and to be seen as earnest in the desire to not continue inflicting pain.
Seriously, it's mind bending.

I live here in the USA, and it's same the stupid effing shite.
Like you lose some part of your inalienable right to be authentically you if being a dick and a bigot/racist/misogynist is taken from your civil liberties.

What a ******* world we live in.

It’s no longer about saying sorry - it’s about making change and that’s what people seem to struggle with. That and the misconceptions of what it’s like living black in Australia

 

[Holy Rioli]

I'm really happy with this latest development. It shows the AFL actually care about making the game safe for our first nations players from this point forward.

 

[brad sue well]

I'm really happy with this latest development. It shows the AFL actually care about making the game safe for our first nations players from this point forward.

Not trying to be provocative Holy Rioli but it took the ABL families to write a letter of demand to the AFL to convince them they will follow through in a way they feel is the right progress. The AFL thought it would take a few days to knock up the Terms of Reference. Not sure they understood and respected the complexity.

Initially an industry wide review was referred to in the Terms of Reference announcement and wasn’t enough for the ABL families to accept.

I hope it is a very detailed and ongoing change as was requested. Like a lot of this, it is the extent to which and a need to satisfy a range of stakeholders needs for want of a better way of saying it.

I hope the AFLPA really put a strong case forward as reported today. I have heard first hand that their Indigenous Advisory Board wasn’t that great from a Board member of recent years. The AFLPA have referred to some form of human rights framework they plan to implement. It will be interesting the extent to which they can exert themselves to their funding body.

 

[Nugett]

I understand the fines and I am prepared for a whack there, but I don't understand losing draft picks. It doesn't make sense. It was a governing / admin issue to do with the coaches and admin removing draft picks for something that happened 10 years ago doesn't make any sense for the current list when all the ppl involved are currently not involved with the club

I could understand losing draft picks, if there was systemic cheating going on. Ie salary cap, doping regime, things that give an unfair advantage over the rest of the comp.

This is more of a reflection of a poor toxic cultural environment at the time which is more of a governance issue. The more fitting punishment would be not take away draft picks, but a huge fine, and a certain percentage of our soft cap has to be spent on cultural awareness programs.