News Hawthorn Racism Review - No player name speculation - opposition posters tread very carefully

[Strapping Young Lad]

Wrong. Hawks did what they had to do by the rules of the AFL.

Correct. For reference below, once the HFC had the report outlining serious allegations they were duty bound by the AFL’s protocol to hand over the report to the AFL integrity unit.

I will pin this post, as it seems to be a constant query.

 

[The Jet From Poowong]

Newbold’s denial that he sent the email (from his personal email account and sent from an IPhone) is “crushed up anti-inflammatories” stuff

Agree. I shudder to think what it would have been in here had it been the other bloke as pres

 

[The Jet From Poowong]

Fact 1 - 17 of 23 people approached responded
Fact 2 - 5 people have gone on record and made statements to Egan
Fact 3 - 5 other people have indicated they may get involved depending on the HFC response
Fact 4 - an assistant coach named Mark Evans as part of the Russian mafia and says he was present and complicit with carrying out part of the orders of the 3 others - he validated the findings
Fact 5 - parties involved shared with Egan texts, emails and written research relevant to the research - ie. written primary data

Looks to me like there’s already been a fair bit put up, with the potential for a great deal more. No one is hiding behind anything are they?

Be careful what you wish for…..

If they are all facts as you state we shouldn’t see an issue with the AFL carrying out an investigation. Somehow, that appears to be a little turbulent in getting off the ground

 

[Simon Crawshay]

The ABC will have their i’s dotted and t’s crossed. They will be hiding behind the players and have records to prove it. There is no chance they published without huge legal checks.

Good luck proving who leaked it. Clarko will need evidence for that.

Clarko can go after the players - good luck with that. It is highly likely one of them only got out of jail recently.

The only way Clarko gets paid is if (when) the AFL pays him to make all this go away.

I believe the ABC will get to see how rigorous those legal checks were in court the way things are tracking.

I just can't see how the AFL can simultaneously make a payment to both the players involved and Clarko.

That just doesn't make any sense to me (especially if Clarko/Fagan continue to deny all wrong doings).

 

[Gralin]

Aside from the fact I was responding to poster who was alluding to a 'former #37' having issues with Clarko/HFC, I take it according to you if a former player has made positive public statements it's bullshit, however any negative statements are the truth - OK got it....

No I'm saying while a player still wants to have a career in the AFL they aren't going to say anything really bad even if they want to.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

No I'm saying while a player still wants to have a career in the AFL they aren't going to say anything really bad even if they want to.

Only have to look at Merrett’s Tour de France level of back-pedalling over his Hird comments a few weeks back.

 

[HedgeFund]

If they are all facts as you state we shouldn’t see an issue with the AFL carrying out an investigation. Somehow, that appears to be a little turbulent in getting off the ground

I haven’t seen it reported anywhere that there is any issue with the AFL investigation starting. McLachlan announced last week that a four person panel would be selected and the process should take 2 months. What’s stopping that happening?

 

[Rocket72]

Herald Sun mate. In its entirity.

Full version? I’ve read a redacted copy a few days ago, had names and a few key points redacted.

 

[Mercy Seat]

I haven’t seen it reported anywhere that there is any issue with the AFL investigation starting. McLachlan announced last week that a four person panel would be selected and the process should take 2 months. What’s stopping that happening?

Caro has reported on a number of outlets that its proving really hard to find a panel that all members are happy with and that it’s unlikely the plaintiffs will proceed in cooperating with it anyway due to a perception of conflicts of interests, and little faith in the afl.

 

[TylerDurden]

I haven’t seen it reported anywhere that there is any issue with the AFL investigation starting. McLachlan announced last week that a four person panel would be selected and the process should take 2 months. What’s stopping that happening?

There are disagreements from both parties about who should be on the panel.

 

[Bedi]

Getting messier and more complicated by the day, and this thing has only just started. But as much as we all want a resolution, the fact it was leaked means it's now a flawed process, so I think Clarko, Fagan etc (wrongly or rightly) are safe in their roles. But at very least least this will all lead to a more culturally sound system that will ensure a safer, more transpaent environment for First Nations footballers across the board

 

[HedgeFund]

There are disagreements from both parties about who should be on the panel.

Gotcha

 

[Mercy Seat]

Worth a listen

 

[Masked Magician]

Sorry for intrusion, I can't seem to find the information anywhere.

When did these allegations take place?

 

[deanc]

Getting messier and more complicated by the day, and this thing has only just started. But as much as we all want a resolution, the fact it was leaked means it's now a flawed process, so I think Clarko, Fagan etc (wrongly or rightly) are safe in their roles. But at very least least this will all lead to a more culturally sound system that will ensure a safer, more transpaent environment for First Nations footballers across the board

Clarkson:
"The failure to maintain the confidentiality of the review and further damaging public speculation means I have no option but to express publicly, in the strongest and most emphatic terms possible, that I did not behave in the manner claimed."

Clarkson concerned AFL investigation into Hawthorn allegations may be undermined

Four-time AFL premiership coach Alastair Clarkson releases a second statement addressing Hawthorn's alleged mistreatment of First Nations players during his time in charge of the club.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Bugs1977]

We are at the put-up or shut-up stage for all involved now. Clarkson has fired the shot with a warning for all.

Those statements provided in the Hawthorn review report will no longer suffice for anyone trying to hide behind them. We are now seeing a lot more cautious and conditional news articles appearing and opinions almost non existent. Fact reporting only

I did notice the 'careful' wording in from the below FoxSports article. Here's the carefully worded snippet from it.

‘Has to be conflicted’: AFL investigation labelled a ‘mess’ after latest shock Hawks claims

‘Has to be conflicted’: AFL investigation labelled a ‘mess’ after latest shock Hawks claims

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[WillowSF]

Unless there are text messages or other recorded evidence of the allegations, this is amounting to a ‘he said – she said’ story. Generally in these instances the truth falls somewhere in between what each party claim.

Hypothetically imagine player X comes to Clarkson and tells him his partner is pregnant and he therefore doesn’t know what to do. Clarkson then proceeds to have a discussion with him to review his options including having the baby, family support, club resources and abortion.

From Clarkson’s perspective he’s assisting the player with due diligence to make an informed decision. Player X walks away thinking his partner has to have an abortion.

I’m not able to make sense of these claims…without hard evidence it is just that…a claim/allegation. I also think it was really a poor decision that Clarkson and Fagan were not interviewed for the report and Phil Egan is the sole author.

As far as Cyril is concerned, I very much appreciate what he has done for the club, but I think he’s participating in some revisionist history. HE decided to retire prematurely and now wants to blame the HFC for that decision. If things were so terrible for him, he could have requested a trade to another club. The club clearly would have honored that request given how many of the players of that successful era were moved on.

No winners here…whoever commissioned the report should speak up to their motivation. Was the club preparing to compensate players identified in the report who were treated poorly? Were additional resources going to be assigned for player support? This report is just opening up a can of worms with no clear outcome or actionable items.

 

[Lebbo73]

You don’t last the best part of two decades at a club by being a campaigner. I’ll reserve my judgement as innocent until proven otherwise.

 

[Wingnut19]

You don’t last the best part of two decades at a club by being a campaigner. I’ll reserve my judgement as innocent until proven otherwise.

100%.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Unless there are text messages or other recorded evidence of the allegations, this is amounting to a ‘he said – she said’ story. Generally in these instances the truth falls somewhere in between what each party claim.

Hypothetically imagine player X comes to Clarkson and tells him his partner is pregnant and he therefore doesn’t know what to do. Clarkson then precedes to have a discussion with him to review his options including having the baby, family support, club resources and abortion.

From Clarkson’s perspective he’s assisting the player with due diligence to make an informed decision. Player X walks away thinking his partner has to have an abortion.

I’m not able to make sense of these claims…without hard evidence it is just that…a claim/allegation. I also think it was really a poor decision that Clarkson and Fagan were not interviewed for the report and Phil Egan is the sole author.

As far as Cyril is concerned, I very much appreciate what he has done for the club, but I think he’s participating in some revisionist history. HE decided to retire prematurely and now wants to blame the HFC for that decision. If things were so terrible for him, he could have requested a trade to another club. The club clearly would have honored that request given how many of the players of that successful era were moved on.

No winners here…whoever commissioned the report should speak up to their motivation. Was the club preparing to compensate players identified in the report who were treated poorly? Were additional resources going to be assigned for player support? This report is just opening up a can of worms with no clear outcome or actionable items.

What an amazing post. You create a complete false narratives but then have the audacity to say that Cyril is participating in revisionist history.

Oh and ‘whoever commissionsed the report should speak up…’ - THE CLUB COMISSIONED THE REPORT - you absolute pinhead.

 

[Messenger]

Unless there are text messages or other recorded evidence of the allegations, this is amounting to a ‘he said – she said’ story. Generally in these instances the truth falls somewhere in between what each party claim.

Hypothetically imagine player X comes to Clarkson and tells him his partner is pregnant and he therefore doesn’t know what to do. Clarkson then precedes to have a discussion with him to review his options including having the baby, family support, club resources and abortion.

From Clarkson’s perspective he’s assisting the player with due diligence to make an informed decision. Player X walks away thinking his partner has to have an abortion.

I’m not able to make sense of these claims…without hard evidence it is just that…a claim/allegation. I also think it was really a poor decision that Clarkson and Fagan were not interviewed for the report and Phil Egan is the sole author.

As far as Cyril is concerned, I very much appreciate what he has done for the club, but I think he’s participating in some revisionist history. HE decided to retire prematurely and now wants to blame the HFC for that decision. If things were so terrible for him, he could have requested a trade to another club. The club clearly would have honored that request given how many of the players of that successful era were moved on.

No winners here…whoever commissioned the report should speak up to their motivation. Was the club preparing to compensate players identified in the report who were treated poorly? Were additional resources going to be assigned for player support? This report is just opening up a can of worms with no clear outcome or actionable items.

Nonsense.

That’s not what has been claimed by the respondent in the report.

And as a senior figure at the club why the **** would you place yourself in a position where you’re providing family advice?

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Nonsense.

That’s not what has been claimed by the respondent in the report.

And as a senior figure at the club why the * would you place yourself in a position where you’re providing family advice?

I do love those creating defensive fake narratives where it’s perfectly cool and normal for a footy coach to support a player by suggesting that it’s an option for his partner to have an abortion. That’s not normal, that’s not the role of a footy coach, that’s not a conversation for anyone outside of that relationship.

Interestingly too I keep seeing the narratives trotted out in this thread that players didn’t know what to do, were unhappy in their relationships etc - when the information in the player investigations suggests nothing of the sort. Again not saying that the accusations are verified gospel truth - but I have to wonder about the motivations of those who just create complete false narratives regarding them.

 

[derp de derp]

I do love those creating defensive fake narratives where it’s perfectly cool and normal for a footy coach to support a player by suggesting that it’s an option for his partner to have an abortion. That’s not normal, that’s not the role of a footy coach, that’s not a conversation for anyone outside of that relationship.

Interestingly too I keep seeing the narratives trotted out in this thread that players didn’t know what to do, were unhappy in their relationships etc - when the information in the player investigations suggests nothing of the sort. Again not saying that the accusations are verified gospel truth - but I have to wonder about the motivations of those who just create complete false narratives regarding them.

I’m not speaking in terms of these allegations but there are many scenarios where it would be understandable for these kind of discussions to occur. Drugs, Alcohol, Domestic violence.

The reason there is speculation is because there is no context.

It’s a very unfortunate situation for everyone


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[WillowSF]

Nonsense.

That’s not what has been claimed by the respondent in the report.

And as a senior figure at the club why the * would you place yourself in a position where you’re providing family advice?

That's the problem with the report. It is one sided and therefore incomplete. Clarkson or Fagan's version of the exact same event may be similar to the hypothetical I outlined, or they may altogether deny it ever happened. Unless there is documented evidence, (and there may very will be), we will not entirely know the facts. It is deeply troubling that a number of the FN players had issues with Clarkson but I could imagine if you asked the entire list of players who played for Clarkson during his tenure at HFC, a similar percentage of the overall player group may have had grievances with him too.

As far as providing family advice, have you ever had a co-worker or sub-ordinate come to you with a challenging personal situation? (I have...it's called life.) You listen, provide them with your perspective and then refer the person to the assigned resources within the organization that are formally setup to deal with the issue. I'm not saying that's what happened here, but I'm also not outraged that Clarkson may have discussed a very personal family issue with a player.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

That's the problem with the report. It is one sided and therefore incomplete. Clarkson or Fagan's version of the exact same event may be similar to the hypothetical I outlined, or he may altogether deny it ever happened. Unless there is documented evidence, (and there may very will be), we will not entirely know the facts. It is deeply troubling that a number of the FN players had issues with Clarkson but I could imagine if you asked the entire list of players who played for Clarkson during his tenure at HFC, a similar percentage of the overall player group may have had grievances with him too.

As far as providing family advice, have you ever had a co-worker or sub-ordinate come to you with a challenging personal situation? (I have...it's called life.) You listen, provide them with your perspective and then refer the person to the assigned resources within the organization that are formally setup to deal with the issue. I'm not saying that's what happened here, but I'm also not outraged that Clarkson may have discussed a very personal family issue with a player.

'I'm not saying that's what happened here' - that is precisely what you did with your last post. You created a false narrative that suggested everything was peachy with what the accused did (i.e. saying those making the accusations were wrong in their claims) and then accused Cyril of creating revisionist history. Who do you think has more of a perspective of what happened to him while at the club - you or Cyril Rioli?

People are posting stuff like this which just utterly diminishes everything stated by the Indigenous players and then play cute with 'hey I am just asking questions' or 'just being hypothetical'. I, like you, can't know what went on. I, like you, would prefer that the accusations of what happened wouldn't have happened at the football club I support. While the investigations take place to get to the bottom of what did happen however - I am not going to spend multiple paragraphs playing character assassination of those doing the accusing.

The thing about these created narratives is that they all portray things as being diametrically opposed to the detail in the reports. I keep seeing 'oh maybe it was an unwanted pregnancy and the player was seeking counselling' when the details in the report and ABC article are nothing of the sort.

 

[Bedi]

When it comes to verifying allegations, you'd think the manager(s) of the players in question will be integral -- esp as it's mentioned in the emails they were informed of the situation