News Hawthorn Racism Review - No player name speculation - opposition posters tread very carefully

[Strapping Young Lad]

Wrong. Hawks did what they had to do by the rules of the AFL.

Correct. For reference below, once the HFC had the report outlining serious allegations they were duty bound by the AFL’s protocol to hand over the report to the AFL integrity unit.

I will pin this post, as it seems to be a constant query.

 

[TazHawk15]

That is just the defence position though. So of course appears favourable to hawthorn.

Sure but we have had lots of info about the allegations so it’s nice to hear the other side.

I think the bit where they say an independent review found the allegations very hard to substantiate is of particular interest.

The defence rests your honour

 

[cryptor]

It's out.

As expected the club has been able to add key details and context around many of the claims that take them from being in some instances cartoonish levels of villainy to very reasonable in the circumstances. With email/message receipts to support also. As an example, the claim that Clarkson had pinned Carl Peterson's son up against a wall at a club visit, now followed with an email afterwards from CP thanking the club for the visit and that his kids loved it, also requesting and receiving tickets to a Hawks game in WA.

There might be some genuine grievances remaining in there but I feel the way the families lawyers have tried to present some claims as being racist by omitting details that have now been provided with supporting evidence only serve to weaken their overall position. (Not sure if that's true legally speaking, but in terms of public opinion)

Matters relating to Clarkson and Fagan have been denied by the club, and I assume if it ends up proceeding to a court room their witness statements are likely to add equally compelling context and presumably will also be able to supported with verifiable evidence.

At this point unless they just want their day in court, I'd be taking whatever settlement is left on the table.

 

[TheExtractorFactor]

 

[Yardie]

As expected the club has been able to add key details and context around many of the claims that take them from being in some instances cartoonish levels of villainy to very reasonable in the circumstances. With email/message receipts to support also. As an example, the claim that Clarkson had pinned Carl Peterson's son up against a wall at a club visit, now followed with an email afterwards from CP thanking the club for the visit and that his kids loved it, also requesting and receiving tickets to a Hawks game in WA.

There might be some genuine grievances remaining in there but I feel the way the families lawyers have tried to present some claims as being racist by omitting details that have now been provided with supporting evidence only serve to weaken their overall position. (Not sure if that's true legally speaking, but in terms of public opinion)

Matters relating to Clarkson and Fagan have been denied by the club, and I assume if it ends up proceeding to a court room their witness statements are likely to add equally compelling context and presumably will also be able to supported with verifiable evidence.

At this point unless they just want their day in court, I'd be taking whatever settlement is left on the table.

TBH, I'd prefer it goes to court and get proper closure whichever way it goes.

 

[cryptor]

TBH, I'd prefer it goes to court and get proper closure whichever way it goes.

It's going to cost the club money either way. Going to court will still be messy and drawn out. I think the club would generally prefer to put the whole thing to bed ASAP and move on, hopefully with some possibility to repair these relationships with former players and staff.

 

[rjslcM]

https://www.fedcourt.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/121991/2024-10-03_Defence_E2432367_v1.pdf

 

[Yardie]

It's going to cost the club money either way. Going to court will still be messy and drawn out. I think the club would generally prefer to put the whole thing to bed ASAP and move on, hopefully with some possibility to repair these relationships with former players and staff.

I understand completely where you are coming from and there is a part of me that does agree. On the other hand there is a part of me that wants the truth to stop all the innuendo from both sides such as "players just want a pay out", "coaches are a bunch of racists" or "club just sweeping it under the carpet" that would continue if we made a pay out.

 

[The Jet From Poowong]

TBH, I'd prefer it goes to court and get proper closure whichever way it goes.

It's going to cost the club money either way. Going to court will still be messy and drawn out. I think the club would generally prefer to put the whole thing to bed ASAP and move on, hopefully with some possibility to repair these relationships with former players and staff.

They have tried that. Numerous times.

If the case proceeds and if nothing is proven, is there any insurance cover of Hawthorn FCs legal costs?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I know your view. I don't share it.

Be offended. be upset, be pissed off. But court action?
Its an unreasonable response imo.

Again, you’ve chosen to ignore the context, in favour of making out that a joke was taken to court, when it was a stream of incidences and complaints.

I won’t be allowing blatantly ignorant posts to stand here, particularly ones that have already been explained multiple times.

If you’ve got an issue with moderation, use the PM function.

 

[Rob R]

They have tried that. Numerous times.

If the case proceeds and if nothing is proven, is there any insurance cover of Hawthorn FCs legal costs?

If nothing is proven (big if) then will be entitled to claim costs off the plaintiff's and could if they wanted (doubt it) claim damages for defamation. The first part they would be obliged to members to claim, the second I suspect they will waive to avoid being seen as vindictive. Far far too early to even guess as nothing has been tested and even if one complainant could be discredited, that doesn't impact the others.

On SM-A136B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[HR Roughnstuf]

If nothing is proven (big if) then will be entitled to claim costs off the plaintiff's and could if they wanted (doubt it) claim damages for defamation. The first part they would be obliged to members to claim, the second I suspect they will waive to avoid being seen as vindictive. Far far too early to even guess as nothing has been tested and even if one complainant could be discredited, that doesn't impact the others.

On SM-A136B using BigFooty.com mobile app

I'd be hoping that the club takes the ABC to court in particular for publishing unsubstantiated rumours as fact.

 

[rjslcM]

The club organised hardship payments through the AFLPA for Miller-Lewis 15 months after he was delisted as requested by his partner. At his partner’s request, these payments weren’t disclosed to Miller-Lewis. Wonder if he eventually found this out.

 

[Cyril says]

I’d love Cyril to return to the club. The sooner this mess is out of the way, the better.

I’m out of the loop at the best of times and even I had heard that Peterson was having trouble staying out of trouble. Sad.

 

[Hawthorn1971]

I'd be hoping that the club takes the ABC to court in particular for publishing unsubstantiated rumours as fact.

Always 2 or 3 sides to a story, but not if you are the ABC....

 

[Suntory Boss Coffee]

I’d love Cyril to return to the club. The sooner this mess is out of the way, the better.

I’m out of the loop at the best of times and even I had heard that Peterson was having trouble staying out of trouble. Sad.

As much as we would love that. From the outside looking in, I highly doubt that will occur.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I’d love Cyril to return to the club. The sooner this mess is out of the way, the better.

I’m out of the loop at the best of times and even I had heard that Peterson was having trouble staying out of trouble. Sad.

Cyril is estranged to everyone.

He won’t be returning to the club anytime soon.

Battle lines have been drawn between he and his wife and almost every one of his premiership teammates.

Both he and Buddy were at a pregame function in Darwin earlier this year and refused to speak to each other. Bud, Burgoyne and even Bradley Hill all seem to be backing Clarkson and Fagan and haven’t liked how this has all played out.

 

[HedgeFund]

I'd be hoping that the club takes the ABC to court in particular for publishing unsubstantiated rumours as fact.

…which the ABC was very careful to point out they never claimed to actually be facts.

If you ever bothered to read the original articles.

Just that the allegations had been made…..

For the 4000th time.

 

[HR Roughnstuf]

…which the ABC was very careful to point out they never claimed to actually be facts.

If you ever bothered to read the original articles.

Just that the allegations had been made…..

For the 4000th time.

Yeh, pretty sure there are laws against publishing rumours even if you say 'hey these are just allegations/rumours but...' particularly when you are a state owned and run media organisation.

 

[unitedhawk]

Cyril is estranged to everyone.

He won’t be returning to the club anytime soon.

Battle lines have been drawn between he and his wife and almost every one of his premiership teammates.

Both he and Buddy were at a pregame function in Darwin earlier this year and refused to speak to each other. Bud, Burgoyne and even Bradley Hill all seem to be backing Clarkson and Fagan and haven’t liked how this has all played out.

Is Cyril still estranged from his uncle Michael Long as well?

I recall Long saying that on 360 in the aftermath of the allegations and it was truly sad listening to that.

 

[Hodgey 15]

Hawks say ex-player was pulled from final for drugs as club hits back at explosive racism claims

Hawks say ex-player was pulled from final for drugs as club hits back at explosive racism claims

www.foxsports.com.au

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[Dont_be_a_Plonka]

Cyril is estranged to everyone.

He won’t be returning to the club anytime soon.

Battle lines have been drawn between he and his wife and almost every one of his premiership teammates.

Both he and Buddy were at a pregame function in Darwin earlier this year and refused to speak to each other. Bud, Burgoyne and even Bradley Hill all seem to be backing Clarkson and Fagan and haven’t liked how this has all played out.

This speaks volumes imo.

 

[seysearles]

There must be squillions of these spurious claims made every day between parties. If they all went to the Federal Court the entire system would be hopelessly bogged down. There must be a method of, either filtering out the baseless ones, or disincentivising (presumably financially) the claimants from pushing through with a disingenuous claim by making them liable for all legal costs. Anyone know how it would get this far when the allegations seem, at face value, to be so baseless and unsubstantiated?

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Yeh, pretty sure there are laws against publishing rumours even if you say 'hey these are just allegations/rumours but...' particularly when you are a state owned and run media organisation.

Pretty sure HedgeFund is a lawyer and knows a little more than you on this one. Take your L.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

There must be squillions of these spurious claims made every day between parties. If they all went to the High Court the entire system would be hopelessly bogged down. There must be a method of, either filtering out the baseless ones, or disincentivising (presumably financially) the claimants from pushing through with a disingenuous claim by making them links for all legal costs. Anyone know how it would get this far when the allegations seem, at face value, to be so baseless and unsubstantiated?

Its not in the high court - it's the federal court.

 

[Howe Amazing]

Never really wanted to post in this thread but after reading some of Hawthorn Football Club defence if this had of been put on the table earlier could a lot of this be avoided.