News Hawthorn Racism Review - No player name speculation - opposition posters tread very carefully

[Strapping Young Lad]

Wrong. Hawks did what they had to do by the rules of the AFL.

Correct. For reference below, once the HFC had the report outlining serious allegations they were duty bound by the AFL’s protocol to hand over the report to the AFL integrity unit.

I will pin this post, as it seems to be a constant query.

 

[kazzooka]

I'd be hoping that the club takes the ABC to court in particular for publishing unsubstantiated rumours as fact.

ABC did not say the allegations were true, only published that the allegations were being made.

And seeing as it's now in federal court, it's pretty hard to make the argument that the allegations were unsubstantiated rumour. They had first hand account and it's been proven true that allegations have been made.

 

[Goatie]

There must be squillions of these spurious claims made every day between parties. If they all went to the Federal Court the entire system would be hopelessly bogged down. There must be a method of, either filtering out the baseless ones, or disincentivising (presumably financially) the claimants from pushing through with a disingenuous claim by making them liable for all legal costs. Anyone know how it would get this far when the allegations seem, at face value, to be so baseless and unsubstantiated?

Because the claimants are indigenous and all the legal fees are being covered. Australia has dark history of how indigenous people were treated in the past so there is sensitivity around racism claims.

It seems all of this is coming from Cyril’s partner. She has an agenda against Hawthorn which is very sad.
Cyril could work for the club for the next 20 years and make more money in an off field role than going down this path.
Unless he gets a divorce I don’t think he will ever return to the club.

 

[kazzooka]

Never really wanted to post in this thread but after reading some of Hawthorn Football Club defence if this had of been put on the table earlier could a lot of this be avoided.

I think the club wanted to settle to avoid the bad look of having to say. "2 of these accusers are lying drug addicts." which is essentially what has been said in the response.

 

[kazzooka]

Yeh, pretty sure there are laws against publishing rumours even if you say 'hey these are just allegations/rumours but...' particularly when you are a state owned and run media organisation.

There is a difference between.

"there is a rumour that Clarkson told a former player his partner needed to have an abortion"

and

"a former player and his partner, are alleging Clarkson told them to have an abortion"

They had a first hand account of allegations against the club and staff. The only way they'd be in any trouble is if the accusers denied making the allegations.

 

[Crankyhawk]

I'd be hoping that the club takes the ABC to court in particular for publishing unsubstantiated rumours as fact.

The abc defence would be that the existence of the Egan report (itself based on rumour) was a verified fact.

 

[Jim Prideaux]

Cyril is estranged to everyone.

He won’t be returning to the club anytime soon.

Battle lines have been drawn between he and his wife and almost every one of his premiership teammates.

Both he and Buddy were at a pregame function in Darwin earlier this year and refused to speak to each other. Bud, Burgoyne and even Bradley Hill all seem to be backing Clarkson and Fagan and haven’t liked how this has all played out.

That saddens me to hear. Tremendous player, hopefully one day bridges can be mended, regardless of the outcome of the current court case.

 

[Jim Prideaux]

Yeh, pretty sure there are laws against publishing rumours even if you say 'hey these are just allegations/rumours but...' particularly when you are a state owned and run media organisation.

I’m not sure what being the nationally owned broadcaster has to do with anything. If the used the terms alleged/claimed/etc I’m not sure they’ve done anything wrong

 

[Bedi]

Because the claimants are indigenous and all the legal fees are being covered. Australia has dark history of how indigenous people were treated in the past so there is sensitivity around racism claims.

It seems all of this is coming from Cyril’s partner. She has an agenda against Hawthorn which is very sad.
Cyril could work for the club for the next 20 years and make more money in an off field role than going down this path.
Unless he gets a divorce I don’t think he will ever return to the club.

It's incredibly disappointing for fans and the club but of course Cyril is going to side with his wife if she feels aggrieved and disrespected. How many of you wouldn't back your own family? Not to say she's driving it, with that said, as i dont know the full details.

 

[peetoo]

SSO it appears The defence re Pietersen is that he’s an ‘unreliable witness’ meaning less emphasis on whether the claims are true or not?

Unfortunately the respondents are receiving white justice which is not what the original vibe was. There’ll be dissapointment no doubt
Maybe if the abc report didn’t happen, it could have been. Who knows?

 

[HairyO]

Come on, this has been explained multiple times.

I simply can’t have people ignorant enough to keep posting this crap in here.

When statements are made by an old man who has a history of making racist gaffes, the suggestion that a First Nations person can’t afford to dress properly is always a very big risk of being taken as another slur.

Context is very important.

The context is he would have said it no matter the skin colour. Looking for racism everywhere is an issue for the one looking, not anyone else.

Their claims, if the Hawks documentation is true, are a farce. Thry should never have let it go this far. Hopefully Haethorn withdraw any cash offers and push back hard.

 

[HairyO]

ABC did not say the allegations were true, only published that the allegations were being made.

And seeing as it's now in federal court, it's pretty hard to make the argument that the allegations were unsubstantiated rumour. They had first hand account and it's been proven true that allegations have been made.

That is the defence of gutter journalists. Real journalists collect evidence.

Rusty wanted the story released before the Grand Final for maximum impact so didnt bother to actually do his job.

 

[peetoo]

That is the defence of gutter journalists. Real journalists collect evidence.

Rusty wanted the story released before the Grand Final for maximum impact so didnt bother to actually do his job.

He’s set in motion events which now are in a white mans court which will not be the experience the accusers would be comfortable with.

 

[unitedhawk]

That is the defence of gutter journalists. Real journalists collect evidence.

Rusty wanted the story released before the Grand Final for maximum impact so didnt bother to actually do his job.

Actually, Clarkson, Fagan and Burt were contacted by the journalist but they didn't bother answering his calls/queries.

 

[kazzooka]

He’s set in motion events which now are in a white mans court which will not be the experience the accusers would be comfortable with.

The accusers chose the route to go to federal court. And it's not the "white man" court. it's for all of us, like it or not we are one country with the same laws. Where we test the allegations for factuality.

They club and accused tried the mediation and "truth telling" and based on hawthorns response there wasn't a lot of truth.

If you read the full response, some of the statments are direct opposite. Miller-Lewis claimed his partner wasn't allowed to visit, Hawthorn provided evidence that they booked flights for her. Peterson claimed we told him to seperate from partner, we provided evidence that we arranged couples counselling so that she wouldn't leave him.

 

[peetoo]

The accusers chose the route to go to federal court. And it's not the "white man" court. it's for all of us, like it or not we are one country with the same laws. Where we test the allegations for factuality.

They club and accused tried the mediation and "truth telling" and based on hawthorns response there wasn't a lot of truth.

If you read the full response, some of the statments are direct opposite. Miller-Lewis claimed his partner wasn't allowed to visit, Hawthorn provided evidence that they booked flights for her. Peterson claimed we told him to seperate from partner, we provided evidence that we arranged couples counselling so that she wouldn't leave him.

Thanks didn’t realise. I doubt it could have been kept secret anyway, in any form

 

[kazzooka]

That is the defence of gutter journalists. Real journalists collect evidence.

Rusty wanted the story released before the Grand Final for maximum impact so didnt bother to actually do his job.

ABC had evidence, they had first hand statements.

It's not up to the journalist to determine if the allegations are true, that's for the courts.

They reported that the egan report existed - Fact

They reported that players made various allegations - fact.

They do not need to investigate the claims made by an interviewee they just need to quote them. A journalist does not have the ability to compel a witness to make a statement, to access text and email records etc...

The ABC did not make a claim that the allegations are false or that they are true.

 

[kazzooka]

It's incredibly disappointing for fans and the club but of course Cyril is going to side with his wife if she feels aggrieved and disrespected. How many of you wouldn't back your own family? Not to say she's driving it, with that said, as i dont know the full details.

I think it's unfair to her that many are making her a Yoko Ono that is corrupting the beloved idol.

Both their names are on it, and Cyril is not a child. Also while I don't think they have much of a case based on what's put forward, clearly the club can do better and it's a damn shame what happened. Also I don't care if what Kennett said was just a silly boomer joke, if the ultimatum was given for him to apologise and resign or Cyril would retire, F him for not doing it. No matter how right i though i was if it meant Cyril would leave the club I would gladly take the hit. And shame on the club for not firing Kennett out of a cannon to keep Cyril.

 

[lethalselbow]

As expected the club has been able to add key details and context around many of the claims that take them from being in some instances cartoonish levels of villainy to very reasonable in the circumstances. With email/message receipts to support also. As an example, the claim that Clarkson had pinned Carl Peterson's son up against a wall at a club visit, now followed with an email afterwards from CP thanking the club for the visit and that his kids loved it, also requesting and receiving tickets to a Hawks game in WA.

Emails like that might prove to be a problem.

 

[HairyO]

Actually, Clarkson, Fagan and Burt were contacted by the journalist but they didn't bother answering his calls/queries.

"Hi Im about to hit you with a massive smear you have 24 hours to call me back".

As I said its what gutter journos do.

 

[HairyO]

ABC had evidence, they had first hand statements.

It's not up to the journalist to determine if the allegations are true, that's for the courts.

They reported that the egan report existed - Fact

They reported that players made various allegations - fact.

They do not need to investigate the claims made by an interviewee they just need to quote them. A journalist does not have the ability to compel a witness to make a statement, to access text and email records etc...

The ABC did not make a claim that the allegations are false or that they are true.

Uncorroborated statements.

Compared to all the documentation Hawthorn is now presenting in court.

Which holds more weight ?

 

[smish]

Cyril. It’s sad.

 

[Goatie]

I think it's unfair to her that many are making her a Yoko Ono that is corrupting the beloved idol.

Both their names are on it, and Cyril is not a child. Also while I don't think they have much of a case based on what's put forward, clearly the club can do better and it's a damn shame what happened. Also I don't care if what Kennett said was just a silly boomer joke, if the ultimatum was given for him to apologise and resign or Cyril would retire, F him for not doing it. No matter how right i though i was if it meant Cyril would leave the club I would gladly take the hit. And shame on the club for not firing Kennett out of a cannon to keep Cyril.

Cyril was already wanting to go home before the incident happened. He had been in Melbourne since he was 14. Maybe some of Cyril’s angst is towards his family for making him move down to Melbourne and board at Scotch.

Cyril should be able to put this into context. What about the numerous things HFC have done for him and his family even before his wife came on the scene.
Like I said he could earn more money if he was involved in a marketing role for the club for the rest of his life.

There was a rumour going around that the former players believed Shannon was the one influencing Cyril to think this way and go down this path.
He is burning all his bridges and he will be the one who regrets it in the long run.

 

[The hands of stone]

Cyril was already wanting to go home before the incident happened. He had been in Melbourne since he was 14. Maybe some of Cyril’s angst is towards his family for making him move down to Melbourne and board at Scotch.

Cyril should be able to put this into context. What about the numerous things HFC have done for him and his family even before his wife came on the scene.
Like I said he could earn more money if he was involved in a marketing role for the club for the rest of his life.

There was a rumour going around that the former players believed Shannon was the one influencing Cyril to think this way and go down this path.
He is burning all his bridges and he will be the one who regrets it in the long run.

The Cyril situation is very sad .

But I think the club and his teamates will always be there for him if needed