NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed. Part 3

[Wosh]

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NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

Process Plan - https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/do...erms-of-Reference-and-Process-Plan-FINAL-.pdf

AFL Ends Investigation - 'Imperfect resolution' as Hawks probe ends, no one charged

DO NOT QUOTE THREADS FROM OTHER BOARDS

 

[sr36]

It shouldn't.

Why? Because that leaves the door open for bad faith people looking for offence in any nook and cranny to use so they can grind their axe and that ends up with the accused being unfairly viewed / punished.

I mean, this is past the point of ridiculous, to sensationalize a 'nod' as racist most certainly looks like someone scraping the barrel for any favourable shred.

Coercive? Yeah probably, even let's not conflate it racism with coercion, they're distinctly different.

Can coercion be used for racist purposes? Yes, but let's attempt to link a nod back to coercion.........> racism!

Any person of sound mind would view the claim that a 'nod' as racist at best far, very *n far reaching.

It's preposterous.

I'm struggling to follow some of that.

Who knows what actually occurred, but I'll put it this way - if a couple of cops come into your house and one of them does the talking, forcing you to do something that they shouldn't be doing, whilst the other stands there staring at you nodding, is only one of them responsible?

 

[Simon Crawshay]

This looks like another one of your definitive statements based on zero facts again.

You should really stop doing this.

Sorry did you say zero facts?

Teachers need better training to deal with increasingly disruptive school students, inquiry says

Australia's teachers are not equipped to deal with rising levels of disruption in classrooms, a Senate inquiry has found, while calling for students to be taught how to behave.

www.abc.net.au

In 2018, Australia ranked 69 out of 76 countries, meaning it had some of the worst rates of classroom disruption.

Why do teachers leave?

Teachers are leaving the profession in significant numbers, disrupting school communities and impairing student learning. So why aren't we tracking the reasons why they leave?

www.abc.net.au

Teachers are leaving the profession in significant numbers — the latest figures from the Australian Bureau of Statistics suggest 53 per cent of people who hold a teaching degree do not currently work in education.

What kind of facts are those big fella?

 

[phantom13]

Kids in Australia are the most disruptive in the western world

In 2018, Australia ranked 69 out of 76 countries, meaning it had some of the worst rates of classroom disruption.

See 69 out of 76 isnt the most though is it? Unless the other 7 countries are non western?

Maybe if youd said "some of the most". Just like if youd said "its unlikely but not impossible 3 former teacher would be racist".

 

[420]

See 69 out of 76 isnt the most though is it? Unless the other 7 countries are non western?

Maybe if youd said "some of the most". Just like if youd said "its unlikely but not impossible 3 former teacher would be racist".

 

[phantom13]

This directed at me or Crayshaw? Cause if youve followed the thread youd note hes very particular about his points so the delineation is important.

Hell half the discussion in this thread has centered around the language used to discuss a sensitive family situation with a player.

Saying "the most" then producing stats that definitively show it is not "the most" is kind of dumb. Especially when the retort to your point is how you shouldnt be definitive unless your 100% right.

 

[Engimal v3]

My prediction of Phantom 13's response:

Ah, "how can you be so obtuse?" What a wonderfully asinine question. Let's break down this delightful blend of ignorance and confusion, shall we? Obtuse, in its proper context, refers to an angle greater than 90 degrees but less than 180 degrees. It's a term from geometry, not a descriptor for someone's intellect or behavior. But here you are, flinging it around like you’ve stumbled upon some profound insult.

It’s laughable, really. Are you suggesting my thought process resembles an angle that’s slightly wider than a right angle? Should I also assume you think someone can be "acute" because they're sharp or "right" because they’re correct all the time? By your logic, perhaps people can be "isosceles" when they're equal on two sides or "scalene" when they’re just all over the place. It's a pity you don’t realize how absurd this metaphor is.

Using "obtuse" to describe someone’s demeanor doesn’t just miss the mark; it shows a fundamental misunderstanding of language and mathematics. So, next time you want to hurl an insult, maybe do a bit of homework first. Or better yet, stick to words you actually understand.

 

[phantom13]

My prediction of Phantom 13's response:

Nah im just not saying something is "the worst" when its absolutely not the worst.

Almost like being hyperbolic makes your point open to criticism.

 

[burge13]

See 69 out of 76 isnt the most though is it? Unless the other 7 countries are non western?

Maybe if youd said "some of the most". Just like if youd said "its unlikely but not impossible 3 former teacher would be racist".

Getting a wee bit pedantic here mate

They've showed you we're very close to the worst, which even if not the worst it's terrible,3 but you're more worried about semantics than the overall message

 

[phantom13]

Can guarantee if someone noted that Richmond or West Coast were the worst team in football right now there would be a plethora of responses showing they absolutely are not.

 

[phantom13]

Getting a wee bit pedantic here mate

They've showed you we're very close to the worst, which even if not the worst it's terrible,3 but you're more worried about semantics than the overall message

No im more worried about people using definitive statements that are wrong in a thread discussing definitive statements and language.

Aussie kids are shits, ive got 3 of them.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

My prediction of Phantom 13's response:

According to Phantom if I called Venezuela a highly corrupt country he would say "Well actually Venezuela is only ranked the 177th most corrupt country in the world and South Sudan, Syria and Somalia are more corrupt so you are incorrect"

Pomposity at its finest, really quite impressive to behold in its own way.

Honestly its common knowledge that the teaching profession and educational standards in Australia are in dire straights (there have been multiple reviews into it), what an unusual hill for him to die on to argue that its not?

 

[Engimal v3]

According to Phantom if I called Venezuela a highly corrupt country he would say "Well actually Venezuela is only ranked the 177th most corrupt country in the world and South Sudan, Syria and Somalia are more corrupt so you are incorrect"

Pomposity at its finest, really quite impressive to behold in its own way.

Honestly its common knowledge that the teaching profession and educational standards in Australia are in dire straights (there have been multiple reviews into it), what an unusual hill for him to die on to argue that its not?

Pomposity at its finest?

Spoiler

I assure you, we can unearth far loftier specimens. Consider, for instance, the Papal Encyclicals of yore. Now, those documents were positively dripping with grandiloquent pronouncements and an air of unshakeable authority. Or perhaps you've forgotten the pronouncements of Robespierre during the French Revolution? The man practically invented a thesaurus of bombastic pronouncements about liberty, virtue, and the Supreme Being. And let's not forget the pronouncements of certain CEOs during earnings calls. Their ability to obfuscate simple financial realities with jargon and self-congratulation is a modern marvel of pomposity.

Truly, the world teems with far more exquisite displays of pomposity than the one you mentioned. Why, one could even argue that the very concept of "finest" applied to pomposity is inherently… common.

 

[phantom13]

According to Phantom if I called Venezuela a highly corrupt country he would say "Well actually Venezuela is only ranked the 177th most corrupt country in the world and South Sudan, Syria and Somalia are more corrupt so you are incorrect"

Pomposity at its finest, really quite impressive to behold in its own way.

Honestly its common knowledge that the teaching profession and educational standards in Australia are in dire straights (there have been multiple reviews into it), what an unusual hill for him to die on to argue that its not?

Nope. You’d call it the most corrupt though and you’d be wrong, again.

What you wrote up there “a highly corrupt country” is right, so you are capable of it.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Well no, you did say this.


That seems a very definitive statement that a nod cannot be racist, when under extreme circumstances, it can.

The reality is we dont know what he nodded at, and for the record, on first glance the concept of a nod being racist seemed silly to me too, but there are circumstances where it sure as hell would be.

What line you personally draw is gonna vary but everyone has a line.

Claiming far reaching is not definitive, like I said your example is a highly improbable possibility not a definite.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I'm struggling to follow some of that.

Who knows what actually occurred, but I'll put it this way - if a couple of cops come into your house and one of them does the talking, forcing you to do something that they shouldn't be doing, whilst the other stands there staring at you nodding, is only one of them responsible?

Well, we can only speculate on nod gate, so to compare your cop hypothetical is irrelevant.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Getting a wee bit pedantic here mate

They've showed you we're very close to the worst, which even if not the worst it's terrible,3 but you're more worried about semantics than the overall message

Indeed
It's actually quite interesting stats those
Genuinely wasn't aware how bad we are

 

[Carringbush2010]

Comparing brands of chicken cookers

Specist!

 

[Chief]

Despite what most think, people from Logan are not a different race chiefy

Just disappointed. Not angry. Disappointed.

 

[sr36]

Well, we can on speculate on nod gate, so to compare your cop hypothetical is irrelevant.

It's not that speculative. Isn't my hypothetical basically what was published by Jackson? A claim that Clarkson was pressuring for an abortion and Fagan was there too supporting the coercion?

If that is the accusation that Leigh is diminishing to just "nodding", he's being disingenuous by leaving out the context.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Isn't my hypothetical basically what was published by Jackson? A claim that Clarkson was pressuring for an abortion and Fagan was there too supporting the coercion?

If that is the accusation that Leigh is diminishing to just "nodding", he's being disingenuous by leaving out the context.

We don't know for certain either way, but again to contort nod gate as racism is really scraping the barrel.

OK, it's >possible < but very difficult to go "oh yeah racism for sure!"

 

[sr36]

We don't know for certain either way, but again to contort nod gate as racism is really scraping the barrel.

OK, it's >possible < but very difficult to go "oh yeah racism for sure!"

Are some ways of helping to coerce abortions ok?

If that's what occured, whether it gets categorised as racism would depend on the definition of racism that you're using.

 

[skipper kelly]

NodGate. Love it.

 

[South of the Yarra]

I had a brief stint as a teacher ten years ago.

The whole industry is completely f......d right now. The drop out rate after 3 years of new graduates is something like 50%

Kids in Australia are the most disruptive in the western world and quite frankly are out of control and as you can see from Yarras bizarre belief that teachers are racist they get zero respect for doing a bloody tough gig.

If it wasn't for the holidays I doubt we could get anyone to do it at all. Its a shame as it used to be a great profession but alas those days have passed.

Where did I say 'teachers are racist'
Stop pedalling bs to drive your own agenda. My comment was
'From my lived experience it is those in a position of power which teachers are, who are more likely to be racist:

 

[M Malice]

 

[Chief]

Kids in Australia are the most disruptive in the western world and quite frankly are out of control

This seems a bit of an exaggeration.