Banter Who will be better in 2025, Carlton or Collingwood? Part 3

[WalshistheGOAT]

Rating players as A/B/C graders is only useful if we understand those players rated around them.

A player who is a C Grader to one person, may be a B Grader to another, and a D Grader to another.

I would love to see Carlton supporters' relative ratings of the Carlton and Collingwood listed players as A/B/C/D/E Graders.

Who is willing to take the challenge?

Without doing it in exact order because I couldn't be fked switching them all around I've just bunched them in their team groups side by side. I've added a green star* to players I believe to be likely to go up a tier or two in 2025 assuming full fitness for the year and a red star* next to players I believe may go down a tier due to age/regression.



Didn't have the traded in players Houston, Perryman, Haynes etc and left out those traded/moved on such as Noble, Kennedy, Owies etc because once again... Couldn't be arsed.

A lot of red flags on the Pies side to some very important players though. Father time will hit them hard.

Overall

A+: 3 - 1
A: 3 - 4
B: 7 - 8
C: 5 - 7
D: 6 - 5
F: 6 - 5
Mason Cox: 0 - 1

Green: 7 - 5
Red: 5 -7

 

[adammania9]

How are supposed to think highly of the opinion of somebody who disregards Mason Cox

46

Mason Cox

Age

33

Ht

211cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.7

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

3.5

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.2

4star

D

6.0

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.3

2star

T

0.3

1star

G

1.0

4star

D

9.0

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.4

4star

G

1.8

5star

- a vital cog in a premiership team - as being below F tier?

He truly lives rent free in their heads. Almost as much as the GOAT

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

How are supposed to think highly of the opinion of somebody who disregards Mason Cox - a vital cog in a premiership team - as being below F tier?

He truly lives rent free in their heads. Almost as much as the GOAT

You can't tell me someone who looks this ridiculous deserves to be anywhere but in his own tier of s**t

 

[adammania9]

You can't tell me someone who looks this ridiculous deserves to be anywhere but in his own tier of s**t

View attachment 2153355

Glasses could solve a number of Carlton player's kicking issues. They'll be able to see their target better. And they too might be able to join Coxy in the premiership player club.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Glasses could solve a number of Carlton player's kicking issues. They'll be able to see their target better. And they too might be able to join Coxy in the premiership player club.

What a champ, big game player, he's set for another huge year

Unique player with subtle qualities

 

[Fadge]

What a champ, big game player, he's set for another huge year

Unique player with subtle qualities

He's no Adam Saad.

 

[doppleganger]

Comparing any player using stats like this is ridiculous. Especially the case for defenders.

Yeah much better to just say they are both C graders.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Yeah much better to just say they are both C graders.

When are we getting that Newman vs Houston comparison Dopple?

 

[doppleganger]

When are we getting that Newman vs Houston comparison Dopple?

Why do you want others to do your work for you?

Newman has been quality over last two seasons. Would have no problem with a Carlton fan having Newman and Houston both as A-graders based on output from 23-24.

Houston is 27 and Newman 31, so Pies get hopefully 5 more seasons of A grade footy from Houston, Baggers hoping for 1 more from Newman.

 

[Fadge]

Why do you want others to do your work for you?

Newman has been quality over last two seasons. Would have no problem with a Carlton fan having Newman and Houston both as A-graders based on output from 23-24.

Houston is 27 and Newman 31, so Pies get hopefully 5 more seasons of A grade footy from Houston, Baggers hoping for 1 more from Newman.

Yep.

Newman runner up in Carlton's last two best and fairests - he's had two very strong seasons (yet Houston has been considered better in a similar position, making the All-Australian team on both occasions).

So any stats would only tell half the story, without quantifying influence on the game as seen by the All Australian judges for one...

 

[Seattle Mariners]

I think Carlton will finish higher but Collingwood will have the better year....if that kind of makes sense....

 

[Fadge]

I think Carlton will finish higher but Collingwood will have the better year....if that kind of makes sense....

It would probably make sense to half the posters in this thread.... the logical half.

 

[Scritchyscroony]

Saad hasn't been great the last year. Not a C grader but certainly not at his A grade best of late

Cooked

 

[Robertio]

I think Carlton will finish higher but Collingwood will have the better year....if that kind of makes sense....

Pie supporters will love that lol.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Cooked

Injured more than cooked. Still a very good player when fit

 

[doppleganger]

Injured more than cooked. Still a very good player when fit

Correction, he was a very good player back in 2022.

Turns 31 in 2025, and injuries already impacting him.

Just Bagger bias rating him at the same level as Crisp or Maynard.

 

[Fadge]

Just Bagger bias rating him (Saad) at the same level as Crisp or Maynard.

My approach, where I ranked each of the players, and had 18 of the best 30 across both teams as Collingwood players, was a better way to represent it.

The difference in quality between the lowest B Grade player and the highest C Grade would be much closer than the difference between the best and worst C Graders (for example).

 

[carlton_99]

Just Bagger bias

Yep it's the Blues fans being biased on here lol

 

[doppleganger]

Yep it's the Blues fans being biased on here lol

Clearly. How else could you have Saad rated the same as Crisp or Maynard?

Crisp (is a dual Copeland trophy winner in 2021/22) back when Saad was good, Crisp was better.

And recently Crisp has kept producing

2023 was 7th in BnF (and won our best finals player when we won the flag).
2024 was 4th in BnF

Unlike Saad, Crisp has no injury issues either.

Maynard like Saad was AA back in 2022, but since then he was runner up in BnF for a premiership team and backed it up with another top 10 BnF finish in 2024 (not to mention being younger).

Output, form, future potential - Saad doesnt measure up to Crisp or Maynard...unless you are a biased Bagger of course.

 

[Fadge]

Clearly. How else could you have Saad rated the same as Crisp or Maynard?

Crisp (is a dual Copeland trophy winner in 2021/22) back when Saad was good, Crisp was better.

And recently Crisp has kept producing

2023 was 7th in BnF (and won our best finals player when we won the flag).
2024 was 4th in BnF

Unlike Saad, Crisp has no injury issues either.

Maynard like Saad was AA back in 2022, but since then he was runner up in BnF for a premiership team and backed it up with another top 10 BnF finish in 2024 (not to mention being younger).

Output, form, future potential - Saad doesnt measure up to Crisp or Maynard...unless you are a biased Bagger of course.

Meanwhile....

Saad's Best and Fairest finishes over the last 3 years:
2022 - 6th
2023 - 8th
2024 - outside the top 10

In a lesser team than Crisp and Maynard have been playing in.

But yep, the Carlton folk have the 3 of them on the same level, and it's the Collingwood folk who are biased for disputing it...

And that's even before we mention Jack Silvagni and Mark Pittonet are on the same level as Steele Sidebottom, Tom Mitchell and Dan McStay!

 

[carlton_99]

Clearly. How else could you have Saad rated the same as Crisp or Maynard?

Crisp (is a dual Copeland trophy winner in 2021/22) back when Saad was good, Crisp was better.

And recently Crisp has kept producing

2023 was 7th in BnF (and won our best finals player when we won the flag).
2024 was 4th in BnF

Unlike Saad, Crisp has no injury issues either.

Maynard like Saad was AA back in 2022, but since then he was runner up in BnF for a premiership team and backed it up with another top 10 BnF finish in 2024 (not to mention being younger).

Output, form, future potential - Saad doesnt measure up to Crisp or Maynard...unless you are a biased Bagger of course.

Again I don't agree with rating players with letter grades - I especially don't see the point of comparing players that don't play the same position.

Maynard is a good player but no where near as offensively skilled as a fit Saad which we didn't see for parts of 2024. Saad is also defensively very strong - has taken the oppositions most dangerous small and done a great job. His closing speed is particularly unique amongst HBs.

Watch Carlton games and you will see opposition coaches put a lot of effort into stopping Saad's run - I have never seen that for Maynard who is more your lockdown small.

 

[adammania9]

Maynard a clearly more complete player. Perhaps not as aesthetically pleasing to watch because he’s not as quick, but he’s a better lock down player and more skilled.

 

[carlton_99]

Maynard a clearly more complete player. Perhaps not as aesthetically pleasing to watch because he’s not as quick, but he’s a better lock down player and more skilled.

I do not agree that he is more skilled than Saad. Saad's abitility to hit targets on the 45 whilst running at full speed is practically unmatched in the league. We just haven't used him right in 2024

 

[Fadge]

I do not agree that he is more skilled than Saad. Saad's abitility to hit targets on the 45 whilst running at full speed is practically unmatched in the league. We just haven't used him right in 2024

Forget the letter grades.

Relative rankings for Saad, Maynard and Crisp.

Go.

 

[carlton_99]

Forget the letter grades.

Relative rankings for Saad, Maynard and Crisp.

Go.

I'm not going to compare players that play different positions. Saad and Maynard even have slightly different roles but imo Saad is the more complete player. Obviously if I am taking a player for the next 5 years I'm taking Maynard but both at their peak (so far) I'm taking Saad.