NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed. Part 3

[Wosh]

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NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

Process Plan - https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/do...erms-of-Reference-and-Process-Plan-FINAL-.pdf

AFL Ends Investigation - 'Imperfect resolution' as Hawks probe ends, no one charged

DO NOT QUOTE THREADS FROM OTHER BOARDS

 

[peetoo]

Egan featuring in the incidents and also conducting the ‘fact finding’? Not helpful.

 

[Elixuh]

Egan featuring in the incidents and also conducting the ‘fact finding’? Not helpful.

Wasn’t that his brother?

 

[sr36]

I agree with you I just don’t think it’ll happen.

Hawthorn, imo, had a system from the board and executive down, where because they were doing well under Clarkson, he was effectively the king of the castle and able to dictate terms. And there was limited to no governance.

I think it's changing. It just has to as they're now big businesses with a heap of employees. Hawthorn and other clubs of that and earlier eras were just a legacy of where footy came from. Semi professional suburban clubs with a president, a coach, a couple of support staff and a group of players - with the coach having to manage everything. They're already following the corporate world and are set up or are setting themselves up on similar lines.

 

[sr36]

Wasn’t that his brother?

Cousin I think.

 

[ferball]

Is it the AFL or is it the clubs going cheap? I think the AFL would be pissed off with most of the clubs approach to NGA zones. I work in the Northern suburbs of Adelaide with a lot of African kids - all of whom would qualify as NGA. Lots of incredible athletes - with a couple of socceroos and a few top level basketballers coming from the area - Adelaide United have a decent presence within the community, as do Adelaide 36ers, promoting their games, running clinics, giving out merch, networking. Nada from Port Adelaide, whose zone it is - they just sit back and rely on the local teams to tell them if they've got a talented kid that they should sign as NGA. It's not develpment - it's just taking advantage of what falls in your lap.

I think the academies, except for the Northern ones, have been low on clubs priorities since covid.

I know that's the case with North. It's understandable I guess given they weren't benefiting from them after the AFL took away the ability to match bids.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Oh my word. A professional footballer was given a nickname by his coach because he was quiet, quick off to the federal court.
This country is so ****ed.

I will start by saying this is not a suggestion of why the name Humphrey was used in this case as I do not know the intent. i am simply speaking in general terms. I have known of Aboriginals who have been referred to as a bear due to what is perceived as their laconic and lazy nature. if you look in literature, media and film bears are often portrayed as lazy, cumbersome, disinterested and not overly bright. Bears are known for being sleepy, hibernating and not being involved. The word bear has been used to highlight that an Aboriginal is lazy, quiet and disinterested. Again, this is in general terms, not specific to this situation.

 

[mick500]

Latest news out of the report is that Clarko allegedly gave Cyril the nickname "Humphrey B Bear"...

Yeah, I think that is something you would call someone who doesn't talk, not something to describe an indigenous person.

Honestly alot of it seems like old white guys trying to be "hip" and "trendy" with the "youth". Wasn't one of the things Kennett said something about one of the indigenous players or partners jeans having holes in them and that was taken as offensive? I think some of it is just old white guys being out of touch.

I haven't followed it closely so I'm not aware of or defending anything said or done other than the 2 things mentioned in my post.

 

[JackOutback]

Humphrey B Bear isn't exactly a trendy pop culture reference.

 

[mick500]

Humphrey B Bear isn't exactly a trendy pop culture reference.

No it's not. But it does sound like some old guy trying to be clever and witty. When it's just lame.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I guess the intention of the whole "assigning everyone a nickname" thing is some sort of team building comradery thing, but I kinda don't get it. I see it more as an power thing on the part of the guy giving out the nicknames - if I were in the team and it happened to me it would really rub me the wrong way, it seems disrespectful.

Yes sir, Mr Kickazz Sir.

 

[Beerfish]

?
No I didn't. Hence the need for special sensitivity and an educated approach .

Did you miss reading comprehension?

I'm saying :

1. There is a general view about family planning that a whitie can hold that is completely legitimate. It's a legitimate view to hold in its own context (white bogans having unplanned kids is a bad idea an there should be way more education on this topic)

But

2. This view needs to be adjusted when speaking with indigenous players due to historic abuses by the whitie.

The message you deliver would therefore be different based on race due to the historic abuses and rightful sensitivity held by indigenous people.

It's possible to hold both these views simultaneously and both are legitimate. The nuance is the context and the reason why it's not ok to say "same rules for everyone".

What I'm trying to say is that I assume the defence from the Hawks staff would be "we treat everyone the same. I'd have done the same for a white player . Therefore im not racist".

I'm assuming that is their defence but I may be mistaken on this.

What I'm saying I isn't "racist" but that's not the point. The point is they should have shown more cultural sensitivity in the overall context and adjusted their messaging accordingly. It's largely and education thing. Unfortunately they didn't seem to grasp that.

No the point is they are football coaches who are not qualified to give family planning advice no matter how sensitive they are. Especially unsolicited family planning advice.

 

[sr36]

No the point is they are football coaches who are not qualified to give family planning advice no matter how sensitive they are. Especially unsolicited family planning advice.

And coaches frankly have a vested interest in the short term that may not be in the best long term interests of the player. In the current climate, it's akin to coaches persuading concussion prone players about what's in the best interests of their football career - which is clearly to play on rather than retire.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Humphrey B Bear isn't exactly a trendy pop culture reference.

Yes in the same way Mr Squiggle is

 

[Sphynx]

I will start by saying this is not a suggestion of why the name Humphrey was used in this case as I do not know the intent. i am simply speaking in general terms. I have known of Aboriginals who have been referred to as a bear due to what is perceived as their laconic and lazy nature. if you look in literature, media and film bears are often portrayed as lazy, cumbersome, disinterested and not overly bright. Bears are known for being sleepy, hibernating and not being involved. The word bear has been used to highlight that an Aboriginal is lazy, quiet and disinterested. Again, this is in general terms, not specific to this situation.

Humphrey were both career long nicknames for both Justin Wetshoff and Shaun Atley for exactly the same reasons the nickname would have been intended for Rioli I imagine.

 

[Sphynx]

I don’t know. They could be conspiring, or not.
I think there should be a presumption of innocence and let’s see what comes out of the courts. Clarko, Fagan and the other guy should at least have an opportunity to present their own view of events.

The public seems to assume the accused are guilty. Hearing both sides I suppose will give us more context of events.

No guarantee.

Hawthorn are the defendants, not the coaches, and wouldn't technically have to call Clarko, Fagan and Burt from my understanding.

I'm sure the Hawthorn silks will be calling every player named, their partners, the likes of Hill, Burgoyne, Anderson who abstained etc.

The media would crucify Hawthorn if they don't let Clarkson and Fagan give evidence, but it's a possibility isn't it?

It's now a very sticky situation with Hawthorn now indirectly controlling the public perception of these 3's reputations, with no real say or power from those 3 in the matter.

I doubt Hawthorn call Kennett and their current exec's etc for the same reasons.

Hawthorn will have to be careful though, there's going to be a lot of hard evidence to use at the end of this court case if it comes to it.

 

[Cleric]

Everyone who knew even the slightest bit about Hawthorn knew that Clarko was a lunatic and a control freak. He was hated by a large number of his players, but they were winning flags, so they stayed.
He had his pets, and Shaun B was one of them.
The grabbing of the 9yo, if true, is something he would do to anyone's kid. He has a screw loose.
I mean, asking someone to have an abortion is another sign of someone who isn't living in reality.

Just because he did something lunatic to an Aboriginal player as well as white players, doesn't make it a race thing.

Why did he ask the kid to get an abortion? Because he doesn't want Aboriginal people to procreate? Or, did he think that this particular player wasn't in the right position to have a kid and it might effect his football?
All Clarko cared about was winning, and if that meant doing crazy things he did it.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Everyone who knew even the slightest bit about Hawthorn knew that Clarko was a lunatic and a control freak. He was hated by a large number of his players, but they were winning flags, so they stayed.
He had his pets, and Shaun B was one of them.
The grabbing of the 9yo, if true, is something he would do to anyone's kid. He has a screw loose.
I mean, asking someone to have an abortion is another sign of someone who isn't living in reality.

Just because he did something lunatic to an Aboriginal player as well as white players, doesn't make it a race thing.

Why did he ask the kid to get an abortion? Because he doesn't want Aboriginal people to procreate? Or, did he think that this particular player wasn't in the right position to have a kid and it might effect his football?
All Clarko cared about was winning, and if that meant doing crazy things he did it.

Of course asking an Aboriginal to abort an Aboriginal baby and leave an Aboriginal partner is racist.

 

[Cleric]

Of course asking an Aboriginal to abort an Aboriginal baby and leave an Aboriginal partner is racist.

Lol, that's just comical. The fact you think that shows a distinct lack of ability to reason.
The only thing you see about him is his race. That defines him to you. Every and anything that happens to him, is due to his race.
He can never be greater than the colour of his skin, or who his grandparents are.

 

[Chief]

So if you take his Aboriginality away from the equation, it's not an example of racism?

 

[South of the Yarra]

Lol, that's just comical. The fact you think that shows a distinct lack of ability to reason.
The only thing you see about him is his race. That defines him to you. Every and anything that happens to him, is due to his race.
He can never be greater than the colour of his skin, or who his grandparents are.

The fact you think this shows you have absolutely no idea of what racism is and no idea of what racism against Aboriginals is. It also shows a complete lack of understanding of generational trauma. It racist in its highest form.

 

[burge13]

Might not be the most trustworthy group of people to take their word as gospel before a proper process...

Hawthorn racism report author accused of stealing $779,000

Former AFL player Phil Egan, who has previously denied any wrongdoing, appeared at court in Melbourne on Monday

www.theguardian.com

 

[Chief]

Might not be the most trustworthy group of people to take their word as gospel before a proper process...

Hawthorn racism report author accused of stealing $779,000

Former AFL player Phil Egan, who has previously denied any wrongdoing, appeared at court in Melbourne on Monday

www.theguardian.com

This is a new thing or just the court appearance for the old one?

 

[burge13]

This is a new thing or just the court appearance for the old one?

Article was last week so assume 'old one' though pretty ordinary someone with 800k fraud charges is writing your racism review in that case. Either way, dodgy & I doubt many ITT knew about it so it's 'new' to those people

 

[Chief]

OK so it's the old one that's been covered, and the consensus was that an accusation does not mean everyone else involved is lying.

 

[Elixuh]

Might not be the most trustworthy group of people to take their word as gospel before a proper process...

Hawthorn racism report author accused of stealing $779,000

Former AFL player Phil Egan, who has previously denied any wrongdoing, appeared at court in Melbourne on Monday

www.theguardian.com

This speaks to Hawthorns gross incompetence.

Has nothing to do with the substance of the allegations.