NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

[Wosh]

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread.
Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the report button, please and thank you.

If you feel upset or need to talk you can call either Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 or Lifeline on 13 11 14 at any time.

- Crisis support for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders 13YARN (13 92 76) 13YARN - Call 13 92 76 | 24 /7

This is a serious topic, please treat it as such.

Videos, statements etc in the OP here:

NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

 

[Reginald Perrin]

What makes you think I don't want an investigation?

I didn't say you did. The question was who wanted people banned without even an investigation. We haven't had one, yet not only have you called for all three to be banned, you compared them to paedophiles and called them disgusting trash humans, so don't act coy.

 

[EastcoastDocker]

Have had a look at the report being circulated. Assuming of course that this is the actual report. It states that of the 23 first nations players who played for hawthorn 17 were spoken to. Only 5 were prepared to go on record for this report, another 5 were considering their position at this stage and may go on record later. You would think that those other 5 aren't considering a position of everything was great.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Hawks emails from 2013 now doing the rounds, to and from Andrew Newbold.
Basically details one of the stories from the ABC article - if anything, what happened is worse than the details provided in the ABC article. Awful reading.

Burt, Clarko & Fagan are screwed.

yep, it's contemporaneous too, which I think is incredibly telling. As in, this was documented at the time.

And Newbold brushed it off. Just ghastly stuff.

The coaches are toast. This is a monumental scandal

 

[Saint]

It's worth pointing out that while Clarko wants to wait for "natural justice", is an AFL investigation actually natural justice for the victims of Hawthorn here?

I think natural justice for them might be sought through the official judicial system, not the make believe AFL judicial system. The AFL has a conflict of interest where the AFL comes first, just like Hawthorn did when they committed these henious acts.

Clarko might want to be careful about getting litigious, because it'll be him named in the suit by the multiple parties impacted, alongside the Hawthorn FC and anyone else involved. Hawthorn could rightly claim that Clarko went beyond his role as an employee and was acting without club authority.

Once the allegations are proven, there'll be a great fight between hawthorn and Clarko about who's at fault and should pay damages.

 

[kingswood71]

Have had a look at the report being circulated. Assuming of course that this is the actual report. It states that of the 23 first nations players who played for hawthorn 17 were spoken to. Only 5 were prepared to go on record for this report, another 5 were considering their position at this stage and may go on record later. You would think that those other 5 aren't considering a position of everything was great.

I noticed that too. 5 others may go on the record depending on the initial response from the club. I too took that to mean that they likely were not glowing reports.

 

[kingswood71]

It's worth pointing out that while Clarko wants to wait for "natural justice", is an AFL investigation actually natural justice for the victims of Hawthorn here?

I think natural justice for them might be sought through the official judicial system, not the make believe AFL judicial system. The AFL has a conflict of interest where the AFL comes first, just like Hawthorn did when they committed these henious acts.

Clarko might want to be careful about getting litigious, because it'll be him named in the suit by the multiple parties impacted, alongside the Hawthorn FC and anyone else involved. Hawthorn could rightly claim that Clarko went beyond his role as an employee and was acting without club authority.

Once the allegations are proven, there'll be a great fight between hawthorn and Clarko about who's at fault and should pay damages.

TBH, if I was the AFL, I would on-refer this to VCAT. That way it removes them from the process altogether. Better that an inquiry be 100% independent.

 

[Forward Press]

Well said. Great post. Humans need to ‘save’ others is arrogance and ignorance. Whether they are religious missionaries or climate change warriors or even all the covid zealots these last few years. Just let people understand life in their own way and stop trying to dominate someone else’s life. Live by example not by force.

Wow, we have now somehow brought climate change and antivax into this thread. Now all we need is a comparison to Hitler and the thread is complete.

 

[Proper Gander]

yep, it's contemporaneous too, which I think is incredibly telling. As in, this was documented at the time.

And Newbold brushed it off. Just ghastly stuff.

The coaches are toast. This is a monumental scandal

It is horrifying stuff.

Another thing that amazes me about this. When asked about the email chain made public - with Newbold denying he wrote the emails and all - he puts together a hypothetical example of how his work email system was managed and invents a character called "the media girl".

And this occurs in the context of Hawthorn people at that time trying to claim that they had a respectful workplace. FFS "the media girl".

I no longer know why I follow this sport. This bloke is someone that a hugely powerful and successful club decided was a good fit for the president role, and since then the AFL reckons is the right person to promote to the the role of AFL Commissioner.

Never more than now have I understood that management of AFL has diddly squat to do with merit or capability - it's a massive back-patting club of connected people handing senior roles to their mates for an ongoing ego-boost all round. Three words was all it took for this guy to demonstrate that he is (a) a horrible person, and (b) a massive idiot.

 

[RocketBooster]

There needs to be a review of the experiences of indigenous players across all AFL clubs. It's a long time overdue

 

[JackOutback]

Have had a look at the report being circulated. Assuming of course that this is the actual report. It states that of the 23 first nations players who played for hawthorn 17 were spoken to. Only 5 were prepared to go on record for this report, another 5 were considering their position at this stage and may go on record later. You would think that those other 5 aren't considering a position of everything was great.

Well, that upsets the narrative some have been trying to push that it’s three disgruntled players and everyone else’s experience was positive.

 

[Sentinel]

It is horrifying stuff.

Another thing that amazes me about this. When asked about the email chain made public - with Newbold denying he wrote the emails and all - he puts together a hypothetical example of how his work email system was managed and invents a character called "the media girl".

And this occurs in the context of Hawthorn people at that time trying to claim that they had a respectful workplace. FFS "the media girl".

I no longer know why I follow this sport. This bloke is someone that a hugely powerful and successful club decided was a good fit for the president role, and since then the AFL reckons it the right person to promote to the the role of AFL Commissioner.

Never more than now have I understood that management of AFL has diddly squat to do with merit or capability - it's a massive back-patting club of connected people handing senior roles to their mates for an ongoing ego-boost all round. Three words was all it took for this guy to demonstrate that he is (a) a horrible person, and (b) a massive idiot.

Regardless of what ultimately happens with Clarkson and Fagan, it is inconceivable that Newbold can remain in his position on the back of that email chain.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Hawks emails from 2013 now doing the rounds, to and from Andrew Newbold.
Basically details one of the stories from the ABC article - if anything, what happened is worse than the details provided in the ABC article. Awful reading.

Burt, Clarko & Fagan are screwed.

yeah....i'd be adding Andrew Newbold to that list.

 

[Proper Gander]

Regardless of what ultimately happens with Clarkson and Fagan, it is inconceivable that Newbold can remain in his position on the back of that email chain.

Yeah it might, finally, represent a straw that breaks the camel’s back.

Mind you, I thought that the behaviour of another club president parading his stupid golliwog sex-doll collection named after indigenous men, plus comments about security guards not being white enough to work at footy matches might be a trigger for him to be removed from a position of influence. Yet here we are.

 

[Toump Ass]

"The media girl"

I loved the bit where he's like "Yeah I don't have access to that email" right after saying he checked that he "didn't send the email", like ok if you don't have access to the Hawthorn presidents email- and why would you, seeing as you don't work there anymore- then how did you check it? Then when it's pointed out that the email was from March and not May as he stated he is literally quoted as saying "Whatever".

Same campaigner that said Hawthorn fans booing Adam Goodes wasn't racist, how did he get a job at AFL house I mean I shouldn't be surprised, but... I'm surprised.

What a piece of shit.

 

[RocketBooster]

The AFL needs to have any inquiry completely handed off to an independent party. That means no appointments from the AFL. Andree Newbold, ex Hawthorn president, is now central to this story and he is an AFL commissioner
The AFL finds itself hopelessly conflicted here due to Newbold's position and former position.

The way it stands now, there will be a large amount of distrust from first nations people in wanting to participate in any AFL organised inquiry.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

"The media girl"

I loved the bit where he's like "Yeah I don't have access to that email" right after saying he checked that he "didn't send the email", like ok if you don't have access to the Hawthorn presidents email- and why would you, seeing as you don't work there anymore- then how did you check it? Then when it's pointed out that the email was from March he is literally quoted as saying "Whatever".

Same campaigner that said Hawthorn fans booing Adam Goodes wasn't racist, how did he get a job at AFL house I mean I shouldn't be surprised, but... I'm surprised.

What a piece of s**t.

If only James Hird, Essendon, Crown Resorts & The Star Entertainment group had a media girl too!

 

[Stars align]

Is Andrew Dillon’s lack of visibility since this broke due to him being in contention for the top job and those putting him up not wanting for him to take any negative hits?just seems odd that the AFL’s chief legal officer has had nothing to say on case at hand

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Has anyone read this?

I don't have a subscription, but my understanding is that young players were often billited with Egan when they first moved to Melbourne including one who's partner stayed in Darwin for several months.

‘They were too busy winning’: Former Hawks Indigenous manager says club must face its past

Leon Egan believes Hawthorn are genuinely trying to make changes, but he said the club in the past had dealt with Indigenous issues in a “tokenistic” fashion.

www.theage.com.au

 

[Corleone]

You simply cannot trust the AFL to be impartial in this process.

Any inquiry moving forwards needs to be completely independent and transparent - the alleged victims deserve nothing less.

 

[Forward Press]

You simply cannot trust the AFL to be impartial in this process.

Any inquiry moving forwards needs to be completely independent and transparent - the alleged victims deserve nothing less.

If the ABC did not decide to dig, there is a real chance the whole thing would have been swept under the rug without any of us in the public knowing. No consequences, no reviews, and no demands to do better.

Let that sink in.

 

[Freshwater]

Denialism is a crucial part of what enables social evils like white supremacy, antisemitism, religious evangelism/paternalism etc to flourish

They also require hate-filled apologists (or sh**-posting trolls) to perpetuate their false narratives and deny empirical facts

So climate change deniers, anti-vaxxers and massacre or holocaust deniers are the same people…just different sides of the same coin

You know what you are…

It’s the same arrogance whether on the so-called ‘left’ or ‘right’. Telling and demanding others how to live their lives, using culture, science, religion or sport is just wrong. We can all make good or make mistakes on our own without the paternalistic attitude of those who think they know better than others on ANY issue. Freedom of choice is what this whole saga is about.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

here you go mate.


Hawthorn’s former Indigenous manager has called on the club to face up to its historical decades-long problem with Aboriginal players and has urged the club to welcome an Indigenous director onto Jeff Kennett’s board.
Leon Egan, a father figure to a long line of Indigenous players during the club’s most recent golden era, has advised club bosses after Cyril Rioli’s recollections about his time at the Hawks that they need to acknowledge Hawthorn’s divisive past in a bid to build a stronger cultural relationship with Indigenous Australians.
Egan played under-19s football in 1988 with the Hawks but said he was later told by a senior Hawthorn recruiter that he would never have made the senior grade at the club because of its decision not to recruit Indigenous players. “The club needs to face up to that,” Egan said.
Hawthorn chief executive Justin Reeves confirmed he had met Egan at the club this week in a bid to get a greater understanding of the club’s Indigenous failings of the past. Of Egan’s revelations, Reeves said: “It was really hard to listen to. People are all talking and saying we need to do more, but at the moment what we are doing is listening and that’s everything to me.
“Our priority has got to be to support Cyril and (wife) Shannyn and the family, which we are trying to do. And to make sure we are well positioned in this space as we move forward.”

Hawthorn’s former Indigenous manager Leon Egan.CREDIT:THE AGE
Egan worked for Hawthorn for four years on a temporary basis as the Hawks’ Indigenous liaison officer but, like Rioli and his senior teammate, Shaun Burgoyne, was frustrated and disappointed by the club’s refusal to commit funding beyond his one-day-a-week role.
He quit the club after the 2015 grand final when he was refused a pass to the Hawks’ post-match premiership celebrations in the MCG dressing rooms, which he described as “the final insult for me”.
Egan said he had chosen to speak publicly because he believed that Hawthorn under CEO Reeves, who took over shortly before Rioli’s acrimonious departure, was genuinely trying to make changes at the club, which he said in the past had dealt with Indigenous issues in a “tokenistic” fashion.

Advertisement

“I believe he is trying to make the club better,” said Egan of Reeves. “And I want to give him the opportunity to take responsibility to do better and actually acknowledge the past.” The club has not yet committed to an official Do Better-style review of its practices, but Egan said Reeves took extensive notes during their lengthy meeting at Waverley Park on Tuesday, which was also attended by the club’s new Indigenous manager, Brady Grey.
Of Hawthorn’s recent cultural failings, as outlined by the Riolis, Egan said: “They (the Hawks) were victims of their own success. It doesn’t excuse it, but that’s the way it was. They were too busy winning to worry about issues like putting in place adequate cultural awareness.
“They were so successful that nothing else mattered.”
Burgoyne, who retired last year after 407 AFL games — 250 with the Hawks — confirmed he had repeatedly asked club bosses to expand Egan’s role. He also confirmed that he had called a meeting with then club president Andrew Newbold and CEO Stuart Fox in 2015 in the days that followed the constant booing of Adam Goodes by Hawthorn fans at the MCG in late May that year, but that the club bosses found themselves in a difficult position, not wanting to upset their members and supporters.


Now an Indigenous manager at Port Adelaide, Burgoyne said had not been aware of the racist slur revealed in The Age made by a white player towards an Indigenous teammate in 2013. Deeply concerned about Rioli’s estrangement from the club, Burgoyne stressed that he would always cherish his time at Hawthorn. But Burgoyne also said Hawthorn’s role in the treatment of Goodes remained an ongoing source of great personal regret for him.
Burgoyne and his Indigenous teammate, Jarman Impey, recommended to Reeves at the start of 2021 that the club bring Egan back to Hawthorn in a full-time role. Egan said he appreciated the offer but had chosen to remain in the private sector, where he now oversees his own civil construction business.

Premiership teammates Shaun Burgoyne and Cyril Rioli.CREDIT:EDDIE JIM
“But I did appreciate the offer,” said Egan, “and Justin knows I will continue to talk to him and hold them to account.” Of the club’s claim that its current trio of Indigenous players had told coach Sam Mitchell they had no cultural issues with present day Hawthorn, Egan said: “Of course, they are going to say that. But everyone there now deserves the chance to do better.”
Hawthorn’s Indigenous players in 2015 — including Burgoyne and that year’s Norm Smith medallist Rioli — were also not aware that Egan had asked a club official for a pass to the premiership celebrations but were told that the grand final dressing rooms were off-limits to all except immediate family members.

“To so many of those boys, I was their family,” said Egan. “I was just so disappointed and that was the final insult for me. I went into the club a few days later and handed in my resignation. I didn’t want to worry the players about it. I just left.”

RELATED ARTICLE​

Opinion​

AFL 2022​

Indigenous players shouldn’t be the only ones to stand up to racism​

Mathew Stokes​

The club also turned to Egan in 2018 after the exchange between Hawthorn president Kennett and Shannyn Ah Sam-Rioli, which Cyril Rioli described as “the final straw” for the couple who have outlined a number of racial red flags they encountered over Rioli’s 11 years at the club.
One key regret for the couple was that Egan, a trusted adviser and father figure, left the club too soon, was not replaced the following season and was employed only one day a week. Egan and his wife, Kate, housed a number of Hawthorn players over the years including Jed Anderson, James Sicily, Impey, Jermaine Miller-Lewis and Dayle Garlett, along with Richmond’s Shai Bolton.
The Hawks could only find the funding to pay Egan one day a week over a period in which the club regularly recorded seven-figure profits and had received significant sponsorship for Indigenous programs from the Epic Good Foundation. This was also at a time when it was regularly recruiting Indigenous footballers from around Australia.

The dearth of Indigenous footballers came to an end at Hawthorn in 1999 when Chance Bateman — the club’s first Aboriginal 100-gamer — arrived from Perth. Under coach Alastair Clarkson, the club was transformed with the recruitment of Lance Franklin, Rioli, Burgoyne and Bradley Hill among others. Three Indigenous players — Chad Wingard, Impey and Tyler Brockman — are on Hawthorn’s 2022 list.
A former policeman, Egan’s extensive Australian rules football experience included long-time roles with AFL SportsReady, a company dedicated to improving the employment pathways for young Australians, AFL Victoria and the Clontarf Foundation.

RELATED ARTICLE​

AFL 2022​

Football must work to do better, and never stop​

Of his time as a teenage aspiring VFL footballer during the late 1980s, he said: “Maybe I wouldn’t have been good enough anyway, but I later found out it wouldn’t have made any difference at the time. Maybe that was partly why I wanted to make an impact when I went back to the club.”
After departing Hawthorn, Egan was ultimately headhunted by the AFL Players Association in 2018, coming heavily recommended by Burgoyne among other senior Indigenous players across the competition, to run the players’ union’s Indigenous and multicultural programs. He still advises the AFLPA and a number of AFL clubs, and ran a cultural awareness session at Geelong Football Club on Thursday.

Strikes me as someone the AFL should be talking to, to get to the bottom of things.

 

[Jade]

yep, it's contemporaneous too, which I think is incredibly telling. As in, this was documented at the time.

And Newbold brushed it off. Just ghastly stuff.

The coaches are toast. This is a monumental scandal

Yeah the coaches are finished. It’s just too much. I’m shocked that (on face value) that North and Brisbane haven’t seen the very obvious conclusion and acted already.

As for Hawthorn… there is a world of hurt coming down here.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Strikes me as someone the AFL should be talking to, to get to the bottom of things.

yep - seemed to be in the thick of it at the time.

Sounds like Hawthorn treated him like shit too.

 

[Reginald Perrin]

How far back is this going to set the hawks?
Deserve everything coming their way if proven true.
Family club theme destroyed and who would want to play for them?

The Egan report also makes the following observations:

Today's environment at the HFC is reported by players and the researcher to be refreshing and transparent. From the CEO's to the Football departments new personnel, well lead by an inclusive Coach and Head of Football.

All current and recently retired players felt Culturally Safe at HFC.

So possibly not too far back.

This thread should keep track of any other club pulling their digit out to investigate their processes and procedures. I haven't seen an official press release from my club. I know they're busy trying to clean up the coaching mess after chasing Clarkson at the last minute, like a dude at a wedding with a "meh" girlfriend trying to convince the bride to leave her husband at the alter. However, after our long history of leading the space in Indigenous engagement, it is remiss to not announce a full investigation headed by strong indigenous leaders with ties to the club. I'd love to see Lovett-Murray and Long run it.

Two AFL clubs make moves to review history with Indigenous players in answer to Eddie’s call

Two AFL clubs make moves to review history with Indigenous players in answer to Eddie’s call

www.foxsports.com.au