NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

[Wosh]

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread.
Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the report button, please and thank you.

If you feel upset or need to talk you can call either Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 or Lifeline on 13 11 14 at any time.

- Crisis support for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders 13YARN (13 92 76) 13YARN - Call 13 92 76 | 24 /7

This is a serious topic, please treat it as such.

Videos, statements etc in the OP here:

NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

 

[Osho]

I wouldn't know, but on Judge Judy people often ask for compensation for pain and suffering.

I love Judge Judy. Put Larry David in his place over the pot plant he was slowly torturing toward murdering.

 

[Osho]

How far back is this going to set the hawks?
Deserve everything coming their way if proven true.
Family club theme destroyed and who would want to play for them?

The report, as sparse as it was, was at pains to describe the current environment at the club as much, much improved.

 

[manangatang]

The whole trying to save argument is frightening and is usually an excuse for I am in power and can do what I want to you. I am happy to share my story as it is an important part of how I got to where I am today. Please don't see this as a sob story, it is actually a story of personal empowerment. I am stolen generation. Despite being so young I still have vivid memories of being dragged from my mothers arms whilst she was pinned to the ground by two grown men screaming in terror. I can still smell the sweat of the man who grabbed me and I will never ever forget the look of desperation in my mothers eyes. I never saw my mother again (she took her own life). I found this out years later as I was one of the lucky ones with the resources to research. Of my brothers and sisters. One died in prison, the others I was never able to locate but was able to find out info about the torment they went through.
The thing I most vividly remember is having it hammered into me that to me that my mother didn’t care for me and hated me. I kept being told she neglected me as I didn’t have shoes. I should add I was from the NT river mobs where shoes were a burden. I never met my birth father, a 'white' worker on his way through the community but the few memories I have of my birth mother is nothing but love. I remember her teaching me how to track, how to spot crocs and when and where I could collect the hunted magpie geese safely on the rivers. She wasn't a bad person, I didn't need to be saved from her. I just had the wrong colour skin. Her screams and the look in her eye and the fact she couldn't bear to live without her kids told me how much she loved me. How much she loved us.

I am so deeply sorry, and appreciate the courage it must have taken for you to share your experience.

 

[Osho]

Of course they would have.



Except we have evidence of three indigenous players that have been targeted... and zero evidence of non-indigenous players being targeted.

So the basis of your punt is... ?



If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

How many non-indigenous players were emailed and interviewed as part of Egan's report?

 

[Maddo11]

The whole trying to save argument is frightening and is usually an excuse for I am in power and can do what I want to you. I am happy to share my story as it is an important part of how I got to where I am today. Please don't see this as a sob story, it is actually a story of personal empowerment. I am stolen generation. Despite being so young I still have vivid memories of being dragged from my mothers arms whilst she was pinned to the ground by two grown men screaming in terror. I can still smell the sweat of the man who grabbed me and I will never ever forget the look of desperation in my mothers eyes. I never saw my mother again (she took her own life). I found this out years later as I was one of the lucky ones with the resources to research. Of my brothers and sisters. One died in prison, the others I was never able to locate but was able to find out info about the torment they went through.
The thing I most vividly remember is having it hammered into me that to me that my mother didn’t care for me and hated me. I kept being told she neglected me as I didn’t have shoes. I should add I was from the NT river mobs where shoes were a burden. I never met my birth father, a 'white' worker on his way through the community but the few memories I have of my birth mother is nothing but love. I remember her teaching me how to track, how to spot crocs and when and where I could collect the hunted magpie geese safely on the rivers. She wasn't a bad person, I didn't need to be saved from her. I just had the wrong colour skin. Her screams and the look in her eye and the fact she couldn't bear to live without her kids told me how much she loved me. How much she loved us.

Thank you for sharing your story.

Many people wouldn't have heard a first hand account from those who experienced these atrocities.

What this country did and continues to do to indigenous Australians is a source of great shame

 

[TerryWallet]

The alternative way it could have played out is the AFL getting its grubby hands on the report in private and, true to form, covering up/burying as many aspects as possible. You think the outcome would be proper justice for the alleged victims if it wasn't playing out the way it is now?

The ABC was doing God's work getting ahead of this thing and putting it all out there. Considering there's a mountain of corroborating evidence piling up that this did in fact happen, and considering the alternative path of what would inevitably happen if this was dealt with by the AFL in private, I'm happy the way it's playing out now. Forgive me if my concern here isn't with the perpetrators.

Yep.

My only other comment in this thread was congratulating Russell Jackson on being the trusted voice for both Wronged People and Readers alike, and getting this story out into the sunlight where it belongs.

Since then it has been clear to discerning eyes and ears that a rug sweeping exercise would have been undertaken without that initial public reporting.

I was encouraged by fishardansin 's post of the picture of Linda Burney(as an indication) that this story is beyond rug sweeping now.

I think it is. I hope it is.

This was a Football Dept out of control. And a gutless President.

 

[Slartibartfast]

The whole trying to save argument is frightening and is usually an excuse for I am in power and can do what I want to you. I am happy to share my story as it is an important part of how I got to where I am today. Please don't see this as a sob story, it is actually a story of personal empowerment. I am stolen generation. Despite being so young I still have vivid memories of being dragged from my mothers arms whilst she was pinned to the ground by two grown men screaming in terror. I can still smell the sweat of the man who grabbed me and I will never ever forget the look of desperation in my mothers eyes. I never saw my mother again (she took her own life). I found this out years later as I was one of the lucky ones with the resources to research. Of my brothers and sisters. One died in prison, the others I was never able to locate but was able to find out info about the torment they went through.
The thing I most vividly remember is having it hammered into me that to me that my mother didn’t care for me and hated me. I kept being told she neglected me as I didn’t have shoes. I should add I was from the NT river mobs where shoes were a burden. I never met my birth father, a 'white' worker on his way through the community but the few memories I have of my birth mother is nothing but love. I remember her teaching me how to track, how to spot crocs and when and where I could collect the hunted magpie geese safely on the rivers. She wasn't a bad person, I didn't need to be saved from her. I just had the wrong colour skin. Her screams and the look in her eye and the fact she couldn't bear to live without her kids told me how much she loved me. How much she loved us.

People in power will abuse and look for excuses. Trying to save is one of those.

Thank you for sharing , you are a brave survivor of Australia’s great shame.

 

[AceAndy]

You’d be naive to think similar allegations don’t exist throughout the industry. To use a report that only interviewed first nations ppl and then claim ‘racism’ is just so absurd! And more importantly detracts from the real issue of ethical player management.

The ABC article is a mess. It even tries to push the racism agenda by stating “in all cases the players were indigenous”. Like no s**t sherlock, but you forgot to mention the report your using didn’t talk to anyone else!

Imagine the can of worms that’s going to be opened and stories that come out when all players are interviewed. No way the AFL wants that. What a clusterfk!

It does seem many in this thread he gone down the all the players raising allegations are indigenous so clearly Clarkson is a racist.

I have no doubt he is fundamentally a shit bloke and clearly overstepped the boundaries of what a coach should be involved in but is it clearly racist I am not so sure.

 

[The_Ru]

The whole trying to save argument is frightening and is usually an excuse for I am in power and can do what I want to you. I am happy to share my story as it is an important part of how I got to where I am today. Please don't see this as a sob story, it is actually a story of personal empowerment. I am stolen generation. Despite being so young I still have vivid memories of being dragged from my mothers arms whilst she was pinned to the ground by two grown men screaming in terror. I can still smell the sweat of the man who grabbed me and I will never ever forget the look of desperation in my mothers eyes. I never saw my mother again (she took her own life). I found this out years later as I was one of the lucky ones with the resources to research. Of my brothers and sisters. One died in prison, the others I was never able to locate but was able to find out info about the torment they went through.
The thing I most vividly remember is having it hammered into me that to me that my mother didn’t care for me and hated me. I kept being told she neglected me as I didn’t have shoes. I should add I was from the NT river mobs where shoes were a burden. I never met my birth father, a 'white' worker on his way through the community but the few memories I have of my birth mother is nothing but love. I remember her teaching me how to track, how to spot crocs and when and where I could collect the hunted magpie geese safely on the rivers. She wasn't a bad person, I didn't need to be saved from her. I just had the wrong colour skin. Her screams and the look in her eye and the fact she couldn't bear to live without her kids told me how much she loved me. How much she loved us.

Thank you for having the courage to share this. Your story is important and speaks to your spirit, determination and the universality of connection between mothers and their children.

I am deeply sorry that you were subjected to these experiences but I am heartened that they have not defined you.

I think they give your voice a unique weight in matters like those being discussed in this thread.

 

[JackOutback]

You’d be naive to think similar allegations don’t exist throughout the industry. To use a report that only interviewed first nations ppl and then claim ‘racism’ is just so absurd! And more importantly detracts from the real issue of ethical player management.

The ABC article is a mess. It even tries to push the racism agenda by stating “in all cases the players were indigenous”. Like no s**t sherlock, but you forgot to mention the report your using didn’t talk to anyone else!

Imagine the can of worms that’s going to be opened and stories that come out when all players are interviewed. No way the AFL wants that. What a clusterfk!

You think we needed more white voices to truly get to the heart of racism?

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I sleep safely at night thanks to hardcore pedantry such as this

The fact that you think its pedantry and not an actual issue proves the point.

 

[hawkman]

How many non-indigenous players were emailed and interviewed as part of Egan's report?

0

One of the recommendations of the report was to interview all non indigenous players

 

[Pure_Ownage]

You think we needed more white voices to truly get to the heart of racism?

From what i read that wasnt the point he was making.

 

[Osho]

0

One of the recommendations of the report was to interview all non indigenous players

Correct Weight, Ascot.

 

[fs88]

If the allegations after the investigations turn out to be true, it would be hard for an indigenous player to play under Clarko, Fagan, or Hawthorn. You’d think someone like Charlie Cameron

23

Charlie Cameron

Age

30

Ht

180cm

Wt

76kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.1

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

3.7

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

3.2

5star

G

1.5

5star

D

9.6

2star

K

7.9

3star

HB

1.7

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.7

3star

G

1.9

5star

D

9.6

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

4.2

4star

M

1.4

2star

T

3.4

5star

G

1.2

4star

would be requesting a trade immediately.

 

[Satan]

If the allegations after the investigations turn out to be true, it would be hard for an indigenous player to play under Clarko, Fagan, or Hawthorn. You’d think someone like Charlie Cameron would be requesting a trade immediately.

And first nations players in the draft refusing to go to north or brisbane if picked which would corrupt the draft and end up in court with the afl draft system possibly blown up

 

[Silver Tongue]

The whole trying to save argument is frightening and is usually an excuse for I am in power and can do what I want to you. I am happy to share my story as it is an important part of how I got to where I am today. Please don't see this as a sob story, it is actually a story of personal empowerment. I am stolen generation. Despite being so young I still have vivid memories of being dragged from my mothers arms whilst she was pinned to the ground by two grown men screaming in terror. I can still smell the sweat of the man who grabbed me and I will never ever forget the look of desperation in my mothers eyes. I never saw my mother again (she took her own life). I found this out years later as I was one of the lucky ones with the resources to research. Of my brothers and sisters. One died in prison, the others I was never able to locate but was able to find out info about the torment they went through.
The thing I most vividly remember is having it hammered into me that to me that my mother didn’t care for me and hated me. I kept being told she neglected me as I didn’t have shoes. I should add I was from the NT river mobs where shoes were a burden. I never met my birth father, a 'white' worker on his way through the community but the few memories I have of my birth mother is nothing but love. I remember her teaching me how to track, how to spot crocs and when and where I could collect the hunted magpie geese safely on the rivers. She wasn't a bad person, I didn't need to be saved from her. I just had the wrong colour skin. Her screams and the look in her eye and the fact she couldn't bear to live without her kids told me how much she loved me. How much she loved us. A few weeks ago I buried my Mum (who had me in her care since I was little and loved me unconditionally) and there wasn't a day when she didn't tell me how much my birth mother loved me.

People in power will abuse and look for excuses. Trying to save is one of those.

Not sure what to say about that, as when I read your story I feel ashamed!

I have felt ashamed from that moment in my teenage years when I fully understand what racism against first nations people meant. I work in education and do my best to educate about these issues. Small I know. You know the adage: teach one person how to fish.

I try to teach kids who don't understand racism how to fish!

Thank you for sharing your story.

 

[fs88]

And first nations players in the draft refusing to go to north or brisbane if picked which would corrupt the draft and end up in court with the afl draft system possibly blown up

It’s already corrupted, North hire a coach who can’t speak fluent English (Shaw), they delist 15 players in a season because of planning incompetence and then get rewarded with more draft picks

 

[fs88]

Oh I think I finally understand all your posts on BF now

You post the opposite of reality.

Now I understand your hundreds of posts defending Scott Morrison.. best pm ever am I right going to romp in another ter....m... oh.

He is a proud troll but the mods won’t ban him because they liken him to the village jester and view his posts as harmless.

 

[Suspense]

Putting aside any race related issues, the main vibe I got from the leaked email was that she was being gaslit by the club. 2013 is pre #metoo and circa Gillard/Abbott gender war era - many of the public sensitivities that exist now simply weren't a thing back then.

Clarkson/Fagan deserve to have their story heard but if that involves wildly conflicting testimonies with little hard evidence, from a PR perspective, they won't enjoy the same benefit of doubt that they once would have.

 

[gordo2016]

If the allegations after the investigations turn out to be true, it would be hard for an indigenous player to play under Clarko, Fagan, or Hawthorn. You’d think someone like Charlie Cameron would be requesting a trade immediately.

Caro reckons if the stories are 20% true neither Clarko or Fagan will coach again.

 

[fishardansin]

Search function is your friend, but here's a few...

What makes you think I don't want an investigation?

 

[MC Bad Genius]

The whole ‘trying to save’ argument is frightening and is usually an excuse for I am in power and can do what I want to you. I am happy to share my story as it is an important part of how I got to where I am today. Please don't see this as a sob story, it is actually a story of personal empowerment. I am stolen generation. Despite being so young I still have vivid memories of being dragged from my mothers arms whilst she was pinned to the ground by two grown men screaming in terror. I can still smell the sweat of the man who grabbed me and I will never ever forget the look of desperation in my mothers eyes. I never saw my mother again (she took her own life). I found this out years later as I was one of the lucky ones with the resources to research. Of my brothers and sisters. One died in prison, the others I was never able to locate but was able to find out info about the torment they went through.
The thing I most vividly remember is having it hammered into me that to me that my mother didn’t care for me and hated me. I kept being told she neglected me as I didn’t have shoes. I should add I was from the NT river mobs where shoes were a burden. I never met my birth father, a 'white' worker on his way through the community but the few memories I have of my birth mother is nothing but love. I remember her teaching me how to track, how to spot crocs and when and where I could collect the hunted magpie geese safely on the rivers. She wasn't a bad person, I didn't need to be saved from her. I just had the wrong colour skin. Her screams and the look in her eye and the fact she couldn't bear to live without her kids told me how much she loved me. How much she loved us. A few weeks ago I buried my Mum (who had me in her care since I was little and loved me unconditionally) and there wasn't a day when she didn't tell me how much my birth mother loved me.

People in power will abuse and look for excuses. Trying to save is one of those.

Your posts on this topic have been so full of grace, which is quite incredible given the experience you've had in your life.

 

[fishardansin]

The whole ‘trying to save’ argument is frightening and is usually an excuse for I am in power and can do what I want to you. I am happy to share my story as it is an important part of how I got to where I am today. Please don't see this as a sob story, it is actually a story of personal empowerment. I am stolen generation. Despite being so young I still have vivid memories of being dragged from my mothers arms whilst she was pinned to the ground by two grown men screaming in terror. I can still smell the sweat of the man who grabbed me and I will never ever forget the look of desperation in my mothers eyes. I never saw my mother again (she took her own life). I found this out years later as I was one of the lucky ones with the resources to research. Of my brothers and sisters. One died in prison, the others I was never able to locate but was able to find out info about the torment they went through.
The thing I most vividly remember is having it hammered into me that to me that my mother didn’t care for me and hated me. I kept being told she neglected me as I didn’t have shoes. I should add I was from the NT river mobs where shoes were a burden. I never met my birth father, a 'white' worker on his way through the community but the few memories I have of my birth mother is nothing but love. I remember her teaching me how to track, how to spot crocs and when and where I could collect the hunted magpie geese safely on the rivers. She wasn't a bad person, I didn't need to be saved from her. I just had the wrong colour skin. Her screams and the look in her eye and the fact she couldn't bear to live without her kids told me how much she loved me. How much she loved us. A few weeks ago I buried my Mum (who had me in her care since I was little and loved me unconditionally) and there wasn't a day when she didn't tell me how much my birth mother loved me.

People in power will abuse and look for excuses. Trying to save is one of those.

Thanks, mate. Horror show. I'm very sorry for you and your mum. My kids' aunty was nearly stolen in 1970 from the kids' grandmother. She was a Warlpiri woman who had left the community when her promised husband died and hooked up with a white fella in Katherine, my kid's grandfather (who is a star character in the book "Precious bodily fluids"). When his young partner got pregnant they moved back to Albury to be with his family when they had the baby.

In 1970 a man didn't hang around the maternity ward. It was a Saturday so he finished up work at lunchtime and went to the hospital to see how the birth was going. He had to chase away members of a church trying to get his partner to sign adoption papers while she was high on pethidine. No chance there was evidence of neglect considering the child was not yet born.

What gets me is that people who absorb the wealth of colonisation more easily live up to "civilised" living standards due to material comforts and less stress making ends meet, then go and judge those who live in different circumstances. Do they yell at the kids when they're struggling to make ends meet? Do they not tidy up their home that is not the same source of pride? This "white man's burden" is the basis of so much genocide by ignorance.

Thanks again for sharing your story. I'm bloody glad to hear you've found peace and love brother.

 

[Altum Volantes]

The AFLPA has a lot to answer for given they overlooked human rights abuses for over a decade when reported directly to their appointed welfare officers.

Maybe they do have something to answer for? Who knows.

The AFLPA is not some unquestionable entity that only does right by it’s members. It’s a union.

It’s just as much in the leagues pocket as the club’s are.